Self Assurance Doctrines

[gordon777]

How could the Corinthians believers "realize that Paul did not fail the test of being in the faith" if they couldn't judge whether or not he was? Well, as the indicators I listed above (and many others in Scripture that I didn't) reveal, no one ever has to be uncertain about their born-again status. And they can apply the same biblical criteria to the born-again claims of others. This would be necessary to what Paul, Peter, John and James all did in their letters, distinguishing false believers from real ones.

2 Corinthians 11:26
26 I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;

Paul not debating, not disputing, not in contention, Paul teaching no divisions, but to be of the same mind and judgement.



1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye ALL SPEAK THE SAME THING, and that there be NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU; but that ye be PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER IN THE SAME MIND AND IN THE SAME JUDGMENT.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are CONTENTIONS among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 IS CHRIST DIVIDED? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, AND CONSENT NOT TO WHOLESOME WORDS, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 HE IS PROUD, KNOWING NOTHING, but doting about questions and STRIFES OF WORDS, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 PERVERSE DISPUTINGS OF MEN OF CORRUPT MINDS, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[gordon777]

To the disputers, you have no way to answer on anything, so why do you guys try so hard.

 

[gordon777]

I challenge any person who thinks they have just one verse out of the entire bible, that shows they can be self assured ?

Do give a verse if you think it wont be given its context by me, for you.

 

[gordon777]

So many verses that seem to give assurance, yet so many other scriptures that leave those verses with a humble meaning, instead of an exalted one.

Do these guys think they are following a meek lowly, Son of God, or a devil that thinks it should be exalted up to heaven.

 

[gordon777]

The sword of the Spirit is sharp, but if these guys have no Spirit, no sword, what sharpness will they still have ?

They are told to have a form of godliness, and they try to take the scriptures to themselves, yet without the Spirit, they do not understand that they cant use what they cannot understand.

Double minded and unstable, is the other quality God told they have, no wonder they create the strife and give verses about not having strife. ( hypocrites also.,)


Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

 

[gordon777]

But, the irony is, these same people could have assurance, if they were able to do what they never did in all the years they were on the forums, just leave the strife, and stop contentions.



Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

 

[grace2]

What's a "trin" church?

It is a triune god-believing church.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Paul was chosen by Jesus as the world knows, even the devils knew Paul, but others are nothing to the same spirit. 9 exalted people)


Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

You are lacking in knowledge with regard to Paul's being chosen garnering him most favored status in God's eyes compared to others.
For all in Christ Jesus are "Chosen" equally.

Jhn 15:19
".... I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

Paul himself is offended at the thought that anyone would claim most favored status for him.
He admitting himself to be chief of sinners .

1Ti 1:15
..... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

[gordon777]

You are lacking in knowledge with regard to Paul's being chosen garnering him most favored status in God's eyes compared to others.
For all in Christ Jesus are "Chosen" equally.

Jhn 15:19
".... I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

Paul himself is offended at the thought that anyone would claim most favored status for him.
He admitting himself to be chief of sinners .

1Ti 1:15
..... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Yes, you still miss the point, Paul has begotten us through the Gospel, and MAGNIFIES HIS OFFICE being the Apostle of the Gentiles, you and ten thousand other "teachers" have not. got anything to say to anyone in comparison.


Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

1 Corinthians 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

 

[gordon777]

Paul was also chosen for this hope also:

Acts 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

 

[gordon777]

Christ showed Apostle Paul how great things he would have to suffer for the name of Christ and HI sake of the Gospel, that is why he had that chain to be for an example of faith for the world of the Gentiles.

Paul exposes the false Apostles, b y being a truth following Apostle.

False ones resist the truth, but the truth is the afflictions of Christ seen in the Apostle Paul, which we heard and asw in him, and we do the same for the God of peace to be with us.




Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
16 I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.

Philippians 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

 

[grace2]

But, the irony is, these same people could have assurance, if they were able to do what they never did in all the years they were on the forums, just leave the strife, and stop contentions.



Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

Jesus says He did not come to bring peace but war.

Jesus is talking about spiritual war.

think about this, friend.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Yes, you still miss the point, Paul has begotten us through the Gospel, and MAGNIFIES HIS OFFICE being the Apostle of the Gentiles, you and ten thousand other "teachers" have not. got anything to say to anyone in comparison.

So Paul had better self-assurance than you ?

 

[Tenchi]

The verses are saying the opposite to your claim.


They say, loving the brothers is not abiding in death, and if we love our own self/own life, of course we are in death.



John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

??? As usual, you are answering to what you haven't understood. I offered the verse above as one of the ways a person can know they are saved. John says very plainly that a person can know they've passed from death unto life - they are saved - because they love the brethren. How is this opposite to what I was trying to do in offering the verse? Clearly, you didn't comprehend my purpose in citing the verse. But this is typical of all your responses to my posts.

The conviction, illuminating, strengthening of the Holy Spirit, is through the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is humility, meekness, unless you have another Jesus.


Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

??? Again, you haven't understood at all why I was writing of the conviction, illuminating and strengthening by the Holy Spirit. My purpose was to provide to readers those things the Bible says the Holy Spirit will do in those in whom he dwells. These things are signs that a person is saved; for it is by the indwelling Holy Spirit that a person is "born-again" (John 3:5-8; Titus 3:5-8). Your remark above, as far as I can tell, is completely off in addressing what I was doing in offering signs of the indwelling Holy Spirit. As usual.

The test is if we are reprobates, and how can people avoid being reprobates now, when God has left them over to a reprobate mind:


Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Again, you're not addressing what I pointed out, but just dismissing it with an alternative verse, as though doing so effectively dissolves everything Scripture offers as proof-positive that the Spirit is in a person. Well, it doesn't.

Paul not debating, not disputing, not in contention, Paul teaching no divisions, but to be of the same mind and judgement.

So, follow Paul's advice and quite debating and contending with my posts.

To the disputers, you have no way to answer on anything, so why do you guys try so hard.

Ask yourself this question. You do more contending with folks in threads than any other poster I'm aware of on this site.

I challenge any person who thinks they have just one verse out of the entire bible, that shows they can be self assured ?

Do give a verse if you think it wont be given its context by me, for you.

Who's said anything about being self-assured? I've offered many verses that allow one to be Scripture-assured, however.

But, the irony is, these same people could have assurance, if they were able to do what they never did in all the years they were on the forums, just leave the strife, and stop contentions.

Listen to yourself, gordon777. The irony (?) is that every time you urge others to leave off strife and contention, it's while you continue to do both yourself!

 

[Hopeful 2]

You do read your own quotes,

Yeah...?

Is doing righteousness, having one doctrine, about not committing sin, yet not explaining how we do that ?

The explanation will only profit those who hear the first part of my "quotes".

Sin is not believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is lowliness, meekness, the righteousness of the Kingdom of Heaven.

That will be a small thing on the day of judgement, when measured against a lifetime of unrighteousness.
Jesus said..."And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: ..." (John 12:47)
Though taken out of its context, the matter of belief is secondary to other things.
Those other things are "abiding in darkness". (John 12:46)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, it's a burden on people to tell them they have to be perfectly sinless, or else they're not really saved.

I try not to use those exact words, in hope that those who have at least at one time in their lives appreciated God's mercy may still want to please the One who offers redemption and freedom from sin.
It is only a burden for those who want to call themselves Christians while walking in darkness.
They want both worlds.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, we don't ever have to submit to sin, but the reality is when we are born again it's the beginning, not the end, of growing up and maturing in the faith and learning how to resist the sin that so easily entangles (Hebrews 12:1).

Agreed.
Thanks be to God for making our starting point one of absolute righteousness.
From whence we can grow in grace and knowledge.
And that we will never be tempted above that which we can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, I believe 1 John 3:9-10.
But I believe it in the context of the whole Bible which shows us John is not saying born again people are perfectly sinless from the moment they are born again, and if they aren't that means they aren't really born again and are actually a child of the evil one. That is the New Covenant version of the religion of the Pharisee.

Then you don't believe it.
The context of the "whole bible" is about loving God and neighbor as you love yourself.
Don't follow doctrines that steer men away from love.
You proclaim the rebirth of a still sinning man.
That is not rebirth from God's seed.
Sinning isn't loving.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That's why we're exhorted to be led by the Spirit and deny the flesh. Because when you don't walk by the Spirit that is when "you do not do what you want" (Galatians 5:17-18). The 'but' in the passage shows us that what you don't want to do is in contrast to being led by the Spirit, and nullifies any attempt to make the passage a defense of 'sinless perfection'.

On the same hand it cannot be used as a defense of sinning.
Why not look at the last words of Gal 5:17..."For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."
To one walking in the Spirit, it means "I cannot do the things that I would have done if I were still in the flesh".
To one walking in the flesh, it means "I cannot do the things that I would have done if I were walking in the Spirit".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, the authority of the flesh to make you submit to it's desires is dead.
The flesh itself is not dead as you are saying. We know that by the simple fact that it's "affections and lusts" live on to tempt us to sin. It's authority to make us sin, enforced by the law, is what has ended. That is how the flesh is dead. Romans 7:1-6, 1 Corinthians 15:56, Romans 7:8.

Not just the "authority", but the flesh itself.
Paul writes of it in Romans 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Paul also writes..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
The devil can only use memories of past lusts to lure us back into darkness.