Self Assurance Doctrines

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you believe 1 John 3:9-10 ?..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,..."

Yes, I believe 1 John 3:9-10.
But I believe it in the context of the whole Bible which shows us John is not saying born again people are perfectly sinless from the moment they are born again, and if they aren't that means they aren't really born again and are actually a child of the evil one. That is the New Covenant version of the religion of the Pharisee.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Those walking in the Spirit cannot do the things they would have done if they were still walking in the flesh.

That's why we're exhorted to be led by the Spirit and deny the flesh. Because when you don't walk by the Spirit that is when "you do not do what you want" (Galatians 5:17-18). The 'but' in the passage shows us that what you don't want to do is in contrast to being led by the Spirit, and nullifies any attempt to make the passage a defense of 'sinless perfection'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

Yes, the authority of the flesh to make you submit to it's desires is dead.
The flesh itself is not dead as you are saying. We know that by the simple fact that it's "affections and lusts" live on to tempt us to sin. It's authority to make us sin, enforced by the law, is what has ended. That is how the flesh is dead. Romans 7:1-6, 1 Corinthians 15:56, Romans 7:8.

 

[grace2]

Yes, the authority of the flesh to make you submit to it's desires is dead.
The flesh itself is not dead as you are saying. We know that by the simple fact that it's "affections and lusts" live on to tempt us to sin. It's authority to make us sin, enforced by the law, is what has ended. That is how the flesh is dead. Romans 7:1-6, 1 Corinthians 15:56, Romans 7:8.

As long as you are following a false God, a triune God, your reading is in vain.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As long as you are following a false God, a triune God, your reading is in vain.

I'm good.

Even if you're right that it's sinful to think Jesus is God, he's got me covered:

32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven Matthew 12:32

It's not the unpardonable sin that you think it is.

 

[grace2]

I'm good.

Even if you're right that it's sinful to think Jesus is God, he's got me covered:

32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven Matthew 12:32

It's not the unpardonable sin that you think it is.

It is an unpardonable sin when you misrepresent God and Jesus to the world unless you repent.

Jesus says "God is one" is the most important commandment.

So it is the core teaching of Jesus' followers.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Nope, self-assurance is an arrogant attitude and usurping Jesus' authority.

Poor arrogant, self-assured Paul.
I wish you could talk to him & unpersuade him .

2Ti 1:12
I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

 

[Free]

As long as you are following a false God, a triune God, your reading is in vain.

This is implying that any who believe God is triune aren't saved and is a violation of ToS 1.4. Please don't do it again.

It is an unpardonable sin when you misrepresent God and Jesus to the world unless you repent.

Jesus says "God is one" is the most important commandment.

So it is the core teaching of Jesus' followers.

"God is one" isn't a commandment; it's a statement that there is only one true God. The commandment follows that statement--"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."

Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
Mat 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment. (ESV)

There are many core teachings and monotheism and the deity of Christ are two of them.

 

[Tenchi]

There are many man-made doctrines taught by trin churches such as:

What's a "trin" church?

"I am saved already so I cannot be judged."

"I am born again because Jesus says so."

Those doctrines are all out-of-context doctrines against Jesus' word.

Well, simply saying this is the case is not sufficient to establish the truth of what you're saying. More is required: Explanation, justification, evidence, etc.

This is a gross teaching against Jesus' word of "If you love Me, keep my commandment."

There are so many similar excuses to justify their claims.

Your remarks have the flavor of a Strawman argument.

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15) is not Jesus teaching that a person's obedience to his commands, is itself the love for him they ought to have. No, he said "If you love me" not "in order to love me." In other words, Jesus said that love is manifested, or shown, by obedience to his commands; but that love pre-exists obedience and is the reason for obeying. To put a finer point on it: Love is separate from obedience, existing before obedience, and giving rise to obedience; obedience is not love itself.

I know unsaved people who, unwittingly, obey God's commands better than many Christians do. Following the "law of God written on their heart," their conscience, they show kindness to others, generosity, hospitality, courtesy, and patience. They treat others as they want to be treated. It isn't love for God, though, that is spurring them to do so. It's entirely possible, then, for a person to do as God wants all of us to do but from motives that have nothing to do with love for Him at all.

Paul the apostle wrote about this in his first letter to the believers at Corinth:

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

In this passage, the apostle Paul explained that no matter what a person says, or knows, or does, if it isn't preceded by and arising from love, first for God and then for others (Matthew 22:36-39), it's all useless spiritually. Paul could have enormous faith, and deep knowledge, even suffering martyrdom for the faith and it could all be for nothing spiritually because it did not come out of a motive of love for God. Why would Paul write this? Obviously, because he believed it was possible for a believer to do the things he listed without love for God or others. But wouldn't feeding the poor, or dying for one's faith, be acts of obedience to God's command? Yes, they would (Matthew 10:33; Matthew 16:24-25; Matthew 19:21; Matthew 6:3, etc.). Wouldn't having a faith great enough to move a mountain be in accord with God's will? Yes, it would (Hebrews 11:6; 2 Corinthians 5:7; Romans 1:17, etc.). Nonetheless, these things can be done without love for God and, when they are, they are totally spiritually useless.

So, then, it is a serious mistake to think that love and obedience are synonymous. Many are the hypocrites in the Church who are careful to obey God's commands but whose hearts are far from Him. Usually, they are the ones urging others to obedience, legalistically condemning any who they don't think "measure up" to their own particular moral standard.

And Matthew 7:21
True and False Disciples
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of
heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

And what is the First and Great Commandment of God? To love Him with all of one's being. (Matthew 22:36-38) Why didn't the cast out ones ever mention their obedience to this First and Great Commandment? They were trying to show Christ that they deserved to get into the kingdom of heaven on the basis of their good deeds, so why didn't they start with their obedience to God's Greatest Commandment? Well, obviously, because their good deeds were not predicated upon a heart of love for God. And so, Jesus cast them out; for the will of the Father in heaven is that all who would be His would love Him with their entire being, not merely be obedient.

The legalist, the law-keeping, fear-mongering "Christian," who threatens fellow believers with lost salvation and hell if they don't obey God perfectly (whatever that is), has mixed love and command-keeping together, conflating the two and thus encouraging the sort of Christian living of those in Jesus' story in Matthew 7:21-23.

How can you be so sure that Jesus will not tell you so and tell you that you are not born again?

Or He may tell us that we are lukewarm believers.

Can you honestly say that you are not a lukewarm believer?

Self-assuring doctrines are usurping Jesus' authority. No one can judge our salvation except Jesus.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

How can one tell if they are really saved or not? The Bible offers many indicators:

Self-sacrificial love for fellow Christians (1 John 4:7-11).

1 John 3:14
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death.

The witness of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
A profession of faith in Christ as the Son of God.

1 John 4:12-15
12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

The conviction of the Holy Spirit.

John 16:7-8
7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:

The illuminating teaching of the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

The strengthening of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 3:16
16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being,

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Philippians 4:13
13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

And so on. If a person wants to know if they are truly born-again, they have only to consider their living in the light of these and many other passages; if a person is truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit, there will be plenty of indicators that they are.

The idea that "no one can judge our salvation except Jesus" is not what the apostle Paul believed. He not only thought people could examine themselves and see whether or not they were in the faith, but they could also evaluate himself and see if he was in the faith or not, too.

2 Corinthians 13:5-6
5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
6 But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.

How could the Corinthians believers "realize that Paul did not fail the test of being in the faith" if they couldn't judge whether or not he was? Well, as the indicators I listed above (and many others in Scripture that I didn't) reveal, no one ever has to be uncertain about their born-again status. And they can apply the same biblical criteria to the born-again claims of others. This would be necessary to what Paul, Peter, John and James all did in their letters, distinguishing false believers from real ones.

2 Corinthians 11:26
26 I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;

Galatians 2:4-5
4 But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.
5 But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

Acts 20:28-30
28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29 "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

2 Peter 2:1
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

James 3:13-18
13 Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom.
14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth.
15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.
16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.
17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy.
18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

1 John 2:18-19
18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is an unpardonable sin when you misrepresent God and Jesus to the world unless you repent.

No, I'm good.
Even if I'm wrong about it, Jesus has big shoulders.

Philippians 2:6-7 makes it clear to me that Jesus was in the form of God, then was made in the form of a servant in the likeness of man. You can learn about the Greek word for 'form' in Strong's Concordance here: Greek 'morphe'.

Also, for those interested, this is a very good article about it: What the Bible says about Morphe

 

[gordon777]

Yes, we don't ever have to submit to sin, but the reality is when we are born again it's the beginning, not the end, of growing up and maturing in the faith and learning how to resist the sin that so easily entangles (Hebrews 12:1).

Born again however doesnt say what you say, it says these:

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.




Do you want the context of Hebrews 11:40, before you might think some way of excusing sin, in Hebrews 12:1 ?



Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


The better thing provided is Jesus Christ in us, the hope of glory, who is now the author of our faith, to all who obey Him, as He was perfect when He became obedient to the death of the cross.


Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;




Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[gordon777]

Yes, I believe 1 John 3:9-10.
But I believe it in the context of the whole Bible which shows us John is not saying born again people are perfectly sinless from the moment they are born again, and if they aren't that means they aren't really born again and are actually a child of the evil one. That is the New Covenant version of the religion of the Pharisee.

Anyone in the love of God is in HIs perfect love.

What context do you have for imperfect love in the Lord ?


John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[gordon777]

That's why we're exhorted to be led by the Spirit and deny the flesh. Because when you don't walk by the Spirit that is when "you do not do what you want" (Galatians 5:17-18). The 'but' in the passage shows us that what you don't want to do is in contrast to being led by the Spirit, and nullifies any attempt to make the passage a defense of 'sinless perfection'.

We cant be in the flesh when we are in the Spirit, there are no iffs or buts.


Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[gordon777]

Yes, the authority of the flesh to make you submit to it's desires is dead.
The flesh itself is not dead as you are saying. We know that by the simple fact that it's "affections and lusts" live on to tempt us to sin. It's authority to make us sin, enforced by the law, is what has ended. That is how the flesh is dead. Romans 7:1-6, 1 Corinthians 15:56, Romans 7:8.

Wrong wisdom again.

The affections and lusts live on, because the Messiah had the same feelings of our infirmities, but clearly not alive to sin, and not tempted by the temptations.

Read below all, to see there is NO WAVERING..


Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us HOLD FAST OUR PROFESSION
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us HOLD FAST THE PROFESSION of our faith WITHOUT WAVERING (for he is faithful that promised;)

 

[gordon777]

I'm good.

Even if you're right that it's sinful to think Jesus is God, he's got me covered:

32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven Matthew 12:32

It's not the unpardonable sin that you think it is.

We will be judged according to every idle word we spoke.



Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[gordon777]

Poor arrogant, self-assured Paul.
I wish you could talk to him & unpersuade him .

2Ti 1:12
I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Paul was chosen by Jesus as the world knows, even the devils knew Paul, but others are nothing to the same spirit. 9 exalted people)


Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

 

[gordon777]

Self-sacrificial love for fellow Christians (1 John 4:7-11).

1 John 3:14
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death.

The witness of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
A profession of faith in Christ as the Son of God.

1 John 4:12-15
12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

The verses are saying the opposite to your claim.


They say, loving the brothers is not abiding in death, and if we love our own self/own life, of course we are in death.



John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

 

[gordon777]

The conviction of the Holy Spirit.

John 16:7-8
7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:

The illuminating teaching of the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

The strengthening of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 3:16
16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being,

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Philippians 4:13
13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

And so on. If a person wants to know if they are truly born-again, they have only to consider their living in the light of these and many other passages; if a person is truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit, there will be plenty of indicators that they are.

The conviction, illuminating, strengthening of the Holy Spirit, is through the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is humility, meekness, unless you have another Jesus.


Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[gordon777]

The idea that "no one can judge our salvation except Jesus" is not what the apostle Paul believed. He not only thought people could examine themselves and see whether or not they were in the faith, but they could also evaluate himself and see if he was in the faith or not, too.

2 Corinthians 13:5-6
5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
6 But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.

The test is if we are reprobates, and how can people avoid being reprobates now, when God has left them over to a reprobate mind:


Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.