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Seventh-Day Adventism - Orthodox or Cult?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Solo
  • Start date Start date
A message from E.G. White to the Sunday Evangelicals.....

Three Strikes and you are OUT of Sound Doctrine!


out.jpg


First Strike - False Doctrines of Immortal Soul!!!



'You shall not surely die. " Genesis 3:4

What did this primal guru mean by "ye shall not surely die?" Well, he meant "THE REAL YOU cannot die; just your flesh (the unneeded part of you) dies. The real YOU (your soul) cannot die. YOU are immortal. Only the flesh part of you dies" (not actually YOU). This has been the first and foremost lie foisted upon idolatrous mankind.

Churches accepted and then taught this pagan doctrine. It came largely through the Catholic Church after the traditions of the Pharisees. It was largely through this channel that paganism got its foothold in Christendom.

The doctrine of the immortal soul was only one of the many false doctrines which the Catholics brought in. And in the process, the concept of "soul" and "spirit" got confused. According to them, a man's "soul" was his "spirit."


http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_doctri ... l_soul.htm

Second Strike - Devil Doctrine of Eternal Torment in Hellfire!!!!


AngryJesus.jpg


"Sorry, kid, you weren't a
born-again Christian. Go to
hell to be tortured forever!"


Third Strike - Pagan Doctrine of Sunday Worhsip!!!


"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Jehovah thy God: (in it) thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore Jehovah blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."



Revelation 12:17

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspringâ€â€those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
 
Is Jesus Christ the Lord God Almighty?

By Robert K. Sanders

What Ellen G. White writes in her books, is to be believed as truth from God's throne by Seventh-day Adventist Church members. Is it true that "the man Christ Jesus was not Lord God Almighty"?
  • EGW: "But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one." SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129
Jesus "did not cease to be God when he became man," and "that Christ and the Father are one," which are true statements about the deity of God. It is also true that the Father is the Lord God Almighty, but it is a false statement to say, "that Jesus is not the Lord God Almighty."

Why would God give Ellen a false statement about himself? The truth is that God did not reveal this, as God does not lie. The answer simply is this; Ellen G. White is a false prophet.

What does Almighty mean, and does the definition apply to Christ?

From the Greek Almighty means,

3841. pantokrator, pan-tok-rat'-ore; from G3956 and G2904; the all-ruling, i.e. God (as absolute and universal sovereign):--Almighty, Omnipotent. Strong's Dictionary

We then can say yes, this definition describes Christ as all-ruling, Almighty and Omnipotent.

Does the Bible tell us that Christ to be called the Mighty God? Yes.

(Isa 9:6 NIV) "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah tells us that Jesus is to be called the Mighty God. God in Hebrew means, 410. 'el, ale; short. from H352; strength; as adj. mighty; espec. the Almighty deity, power, strong. Comp. names in "-el." Strong's Dictionary

This definition describes Jesus. We find the definition Almighty, meaning Omnipotent, and God, as meaning Almighty deity. On this evidence alone Jesus can be called Almighty God.

Does Jesus call himself the Lord God Almighty? Yes

Rev. 1:7 (NIV) "Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen."

(Rev 1:8 NIV) ""I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Some Bible scholars hold that Revelation 1:8 is referring to the Father and not Christ which could be the reason that EGW held this view.

Who is coming in the clouds? Verse 7, the one who was pierced. Jesus.

What is his name? Verse 8, the Alpha and the Omega, the Lord God, the Almighty.

(Rev 22:12 NIV) ""Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done."

(Rev 22:13 NIV) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

Who gives rewards at his soon coming? Verses 12, 13, the Alpha and the Omega.

(Mat 16:27 NIV) "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done."

Who is the Son of man that is coming in his Father's glory? Verse 27, it is The Son of Man, (Jesus). Compare with the Alpha and the Omega, the Lord God Almighty that is coming and was pierced, in Rev. 1: 7,8.

(Rev 22:20 NIV) "He who testifies to these things says, 'Yes, I am coming soon.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

Who is coming soon? the Lord Jesus. Compare Rev. 22: 12,13 as the Alpha and Omega.

Does It Make a Difference?

Because of the authority given Ellen G. White by the Seventh -day Adventist Church, many that read her statement that "the man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty" will regard it as truth. What does this statement do to the deity of Christ? It says that the Father and Son are not really equal in their deity and that the Father is the Lord God Almighty and Christ is somewhat of a lesser God.

This is very similar to the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses who believe that Jesus Christ is not God equal to the Father, and regard him as just "a god " (with a small g). This is found in their New World Translation of John 1:1.The Witnesses also believe that Jesus is a mighty god and Jehovah is the Lord God Almighty. This gives Ellen G. White, the SDA Church and the Jehovah's Witness two Gods, one that is Almighty and one that is not as Almighty.

The Truth
  • Jesus Christ is called the Lord God Almighty, and the Alpha and Omega, Rev. 1:8, the same as the Father is called the Lord God Almighty and the Alpha and Omega. Rev. 21:5,6. Some Bible scholars hold that Revelation 1:8 is referring to the Father and not Christ which could be the reason that EGW held this view. [/*:m:4ec5c]
  • Almighty applies to Christ, from the Greek word "pantokrator," which means all-ruling, Almighty, Omnipotent. [/*:m:4ec5c]
  • The Savior is equal to the Father, (Col 2:9 NIV) "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form," [/*:m:4ec5c]
  • God bless you as you lift up Jesus to his full deity as the Lord God Almighty.[/*:m:4ec5c]
 
God is the Creator. He is the Father and He - as does a father - created the Son.

On and beyond that ... the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. Some may pretend and define until the cows come home, but the extent of the noise they make merely demonstrates the extent to which they grope around in darkness.
 
Lonelyguide said:
God is the Creator. He is the Father and He - as does a father - created the Son.

On and beyond that ... the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. Some may pretend and define until the cows come home, but the extent of the noise they make merely demonstrates the extent to which they grope around in darkness.
Once again, your New Age garbage is in error. God did not create his Son. Nothing was created that was created without the Son. Perhaps one day you will make it out of your darkness, and come into the light. Quit pretending that you have arrived, and submit to the God of creation.
 
Solo said:
Nothing was created that was created without the Son.
Oh, and you derive from these words that the Son was not created by the Father? :-?
Did all your insights come about in this way?

Solo said:
Your judgments, your condemnations and your vocabulary say it all, Solo. You can hide behind a sanctimonious avatar, but one knows the tree by its fruits. Not what goes into one's mouth, but that which comes out off it.
 
Lonelyguide said:
Solo said:
Nothing was created that was created without the Son.
Oh, and you derive from these words that the Son was not created by the Father? :-?
Did all your insights come about in this way?

Solo said:
Your judgments and your vocabulary say it all, Solo. You can hide behind a sanctimonious avatar, but one knows the tree by its fruits. Not what goes into one's mouth, but that which comes out off it.
Exactly, and that is how I come to know that you are spewing false doctrines because they contradict the Word of God. Jesus is the creator, but I know that you didn't know that. When you get out of the false doctrine pumped into you by the New Age gurus, you will be able to see yourself to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ. Until then, let's you and I start another thread so that this one can stay on topic.
 
Unlike you, Solo, I neither experience a need to be right nor the belief that I am capable of defining God, and I am thankful that this is so. Since I also do not experience the desire to engage in exercises in futility ... and that is what a discussion between you - someone who believes that he alone can understand God - and me would inevitably be ... I doubt whether the debate you refer to would be such a good idea. Since ensuring that this thread can remain "on topic" appears to be important for you, however, why don't I simply withdraw from this thread? Wouldn't that be easier? :)
 
Lonelyguide said:
Unlike you, Solo, I neither experience a need to be right nor the belief that I am capable of defining God, and I am thankful that this is so. Since I also do not experience the desire to engage in exercises in futility ... and that is what a discussion between you and me would inevitably be ... I doubt whether the debate you refer to would be such a good idea. Since ensuring that this thread can remain "on topic" appears to be important for you, however, why don't I simply withdraw from this thread? Wouldn't that be easier? :)
Thank you for pulling out of this thread and not hijacking it to who knows where. It is important to be right, not for a personal high, but for those that read my words. I do not want to lie to anyone, nor do I want to fill them with false doctrines. God defines himself just fine in his Word. Do a study on Jesus Christ and his deity and you will see God in the flesh.
Thanks again for not continuing to steer this thread away from it's topic.
 
Most of your cut and paste is "straining at gnats" to put it simply.

The three strikes I put at the top of page five should be enough for you to ponder in relation to this verse.

Matthew 23:24
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
 
"I want to say to all you Scribes, Pharisees, heresy hunters, all of you that are going around pickin' little bits of doctrinal error out of everybody's eyes and dividin' the Body of Christ...get out of God's way, stop blockin' God's bridges, or God's goin' to shoot you if I don't...let Him sort out all this doctrinal doodoo!...I refuse to argue any longer with any of you out there! Don't even call me if you want to argue...Get out of my life! I don't want to talk to you...I don't want to see your ugly face!"


-Paul Crouch, President, Trinity Broadcasting Network
 
Sabbath Not A Law For Christians

By Robert K. Sanders


Many Sabbatarians have written to challenge why I renounced keeping the7th day Sabbath which begins sundown Friday through sundown Saturday. Renounced the Sabbath after 47 years. To answer their objections is the reason for this article, "Sabbath Not a Law for Christians".

When I was a Sabbath keeper, I was questioned by non-Sabbath keepers, "why do you still hold to Sabbath keeping and renounce the other Old Covenant teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church"? They asked, "would not the same arguments that I use to show that tithing and unclean meat are no longer binding on Christians be the same arguments to show the Sabbath is no longer binding on Christians"? After careful study I have had to conclude they were correct.

Sabbatarians believe the Sabbath is binding on all nations and all people for all time when in fact it was a law given one time to one nation, Israel and was conditional of Israel being God's covenant people. God made a covenant with Israel, and later it is called "the Old Covenant". Circumcision was the entry sign into the covenant God made with Abraham and his descendants (Lev. 12:3) and the Sabbath was a weekly remembrance sign for Israel that they were members of the covenant. Israel agreed to keep the terms of the Old Covenant and it was ratified by the blood of slain animals (Ex 24:5). The Bible teaches that "the Old Covenant" ended at Calvary.

The New Covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ at Calvary. Baptism is the entry into the New Covenant and the Lord's Supper is the remembrance sign that we are members of the New Covenant.
1 Cor 11:24 - 1 Cor 11:26 (NIV) 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.†25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.†26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

Sabbatarians read Sabbath keeping through the Old Covenant (contract )God made with Israel. They do not accept fact that the Old Covenant ended at Calvary and that God made a New Covenant with Israel which did not include the entrance sign of circumcision or Sabbath keeping. Sabbatarians equate rejecting the Sabbath commandment the same as rejecting God.

It is important to understand the following definitions of terms to understand the covenants.

Definitions:
Law of Moses, Torah, Pentateuch: The first five books of the Bible, which includes the Ten Commandments, the Law, and Ordinances.
Old Covenant: The Covenant (binding agreement) God made with Israel at Sinai. It includes the Law written by Moses, and the Ten Commandments written on stone by God. All equally holy and binding.
New Covenant: The Covenant God made with Israel which is the church, after Calvary, ending the Old Covenant. â€â€Hebrews 8:7-13.

What Ended at the Cross?

Jesus Abolished the Law with Commandments and Regulations.
Eph 2:14 - Eph 2:15 (NIV)
15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

Notice, "the law" is singular that was abolished, not laws. There were just "one law" the Torah and it was abolished by Jesus. The Bible does not teach, nor do the Jews regard as do Sabbatarians that there are two laws, one ceremonial and the other the Ten Commandments. Within the Torah, there are ceremonial commands, commands dealing with diet, dress, tithe, disease, and moral commands. To the Jews there is but one law, "the Torah", and it is all equally holy and binding. There are 613 commandments in the Torah.

The Written Code Canceled With Regulations Nailed to the Cross.
Col 2:14 - Col 2:14 (NIV)
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

What was the "written code"? It is the Old Covenant with the Ten Commandments. Not only was Jesus nailed to the cross so were the ordinances nailed to the cross with him which was the law with its ordinances that it produced. It is important to understand that ALL of the Old Covenant God made with Israel ended, including all laws, commandments and regulations. Sabbatarians try their best to pry the nails from the cross to make the Sabbath binding on Christians. Jesus was taken down from the cross, but the Torah/Law remains nailed to the cross for eternity.

Christians are released from the Torah/Law and now serve the Spirit.
Rom 7:4 - Rom 7:6 (NIV)
4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

How was the Torah/Law against us?
Deut 31:25 - Deut 31:26 (NIV)
26“Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.

"The Book of the Law" is the Old Covenant, and it condemned Israel if they broke the law. The Ten Commandments were written in "this book of the law". The stone tablets were placed inside the ark of the covenant. When they broke the Covenant, they came under the cursing of God. Christians are not cursed or condemned by God if they break the Old Covenant as it has ended. Rom 8:1 - Rom 8:1 (NIV) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

Christ is the end of the Law/Torah. Rom 10:3 - Rom 10:4 (NIV)
4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Christ is the end of the Torah/Law. Israel was commanded to keep "all" the laws including the Sabbath so that they could have righteousness. Deut 6:24 - Deut 6:25 (NIV) 24The LORD commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the LORD our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. 25And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.â€Â

New Covenant believers have their righteousness in Christ and not in keeping the Sabbath or the rest of the Torah. Christ ended the Old Covenant Law "so that there may be righteousness for everyone that believes." Sabbatarians look to the law/Sabbath for righteousness and to be made holy. This is blasphemy!

Paul is not under the Law and tells Christians they are not either.
1 Cor 9:19 - 1 Cor 9:20 (NIV)
20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
Rom 6:13 - Rom 6:14 (NIV) 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Gal 5:17 - Gal 5:18 (NIV) 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

Paul tells us that those that want to be under the Old Covenant law, are not "led by the Spirit." Paul and the church opposed the Judaizers that were trying to impose the Law of Moses on the Gentiles. Keep in mind the Law of Moses was from God and included the Sabbath command. Acts 15:4 - Acts 15:5 (NIV) 5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.â€Â

The Old Covenant Ended Including the Ten Commandments
Hebrews tells us very plainly that the Old Covenant ended which included the Ten Commandments. The Seventh-day Adventists, other Sabbatarians view the Ten Commandments as binding on the church. Read carefully what God tells us.

God makes a New Covenant Israel and makes the Old Covenant obsolete.
  • Heb 8:7 - Heb 8:13 (NIV) 7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said, “The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God and they will be my people. 11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.†13By calling this covenant “new,†he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
The Ten Commandments are "words of the covenant" which has ended.
  • Ex 34:27 - Ex 34:28 (NIV)
  • 27Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.†28Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenantâ€â€the Ten Commandments.
"The first Covenant" had "the stone tablets of the covenant."
  • Heb 9:1 - Heb 9:5 (NIV)
  • 1Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand, the table and the consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.
The Sabbath is called a "lasting covenant".
  • Ex 31:16 (NIV)
  • 16The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.
The "terms of the covenant" included the Ten Commandments made at Horeb (Sinai) and the Law wrote by Moses. One Law, One Covenant.
  • Deut 29:1 (NIV) 1These are the terms of the covenant the LORD commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb.

God did not make two covenants with Israel a ceremonial covenant and a Ten Commandments covenant as Sabbatarians would have you to believe, but one covenant. The Ten Commandments are never called "the law".

Moses wrote the Ten Commandments in the Book of the Law. Deut 30:10 (NIV) 10if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

The Sinai Covenant including the Ten Commandments is Slavery.

Gal 4:21 - Gal 4:31 (NIV) 21Tell me, you who want to be under the law,
are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written: “Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.†8Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.†31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Living Under the New Covenant
Without the Ten Commandments


The New Covenant
  • Hebrews 8:10 (NIV)
  • 10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God and they will be my people.

What are the laws that God is going put in their minds and to write on their hearts? Sabbatarians insist this has to be the Ten Commandments and if the Ten Commandments are not binding on Christians then they are at liberty to commit adultery, steal, kill, etc. The Jews were custodians of the Ten Commandments and it did not keep them from breaking the law. Christians have tried to live by the Ten Commandments and have failed.

Are there moral laws in the Torah not found in the Ten? Yes. Israel was to love God and their neighbor. Are there ceremonial laws in the Torah? Most certainly. Now are there moral laws in the Ten? Yes, there are. Are there a ceremonial law in the Ten? Yes, the 7th day Sabbath is a reoccurring ceremonial law that celebrates Israel's deliverance from Egypt and that they are God's Covenant people and acknowledging that God created the world.

The Ten Commandments were just a limited representation of how God wanted Israel to live. Jesus expanded the moral concepts that was written in stone and wrote them on the tablets of flesh, our hearts. You can read in Matthew 5, how Jesus made the principles of the Ten a spiritual relationship between man and God.

If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Sabbatarians want you to be led by the law in order to enforce the Sabbath Commandment.

Christians are not under the law.
  • Gal 5:16 - Gal 5:21 (NIV)
  • 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery, 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul writing to the Galatians says to "live by the spirit." The Holy Spirit will impress those that choose to be led will not be involved in "sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery, idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like." The Ten Commandments do not address all these issues. The New Covenant is a much high standard to live by. If you are a Sabbath keeper you are not led by the Spirit but by the Law/Torah. You are living under Moses, and not Christ.

Jesus gave a new commandment for his church to live by.
John 13:34 - John 13:35 (NIV)
34“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.†The world will know you are Jesus' disciples if you love one another.

The Old Covenant Law was to love your neighbor as yourself, the new commandment is to love one another as Christ loves us. Jesus could have said, the world will know you are my disciples if you keep the Sabbath. Sabbath keeping is not commanded by God in the New Covenant Church. We gave no record of any Gentiles keeping the Sabbath. In the Old Covenant Gentiles must first be circumcised before they could keep the Sabbath. In the New Covenant both are no longer commanded.

Paul tells the church though Titus to live a moral life and what to teach.
Titus 2:11 - Titus 2:15 (NIV) 11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say “No†to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
13while we wait for the blessed hopeâ€â€the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. 15These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

Do Sabbatarians Follow Jesus' Example?

Sabbatarians enjoy pointing to Jesus as our example to keep the Sabbath. Is this a valid argument? If we are to follow Jesus' examples of how he lived then we should consider this:

Do Sabbatarians Follow Jesus' Example? No!
Jesus wore tassels on a robe with a blue cord.
Jesus paid tax to the temple and supported temple worship
Jesus went to a Jewish synagogue on Sabbath and read from the Torah in Hebrew.
Jesus spoke out against the Jewish Leaders.
Jesus limited his study only to the Torah.
Jesus kept all 12 Sabbaths including eating the Passover lamb.
Jesus did not baptize anyone.
Jesus did not own a home, did not marry, was not employed, had no income, stayed in other peoples homes,
rode donkey.

Paul Nor the Apostles Kept the Sabbath.

Whenever the Apostles is mentioned in connection with the Sabbath, it was for evangelism and not Sabbath Keeping. Paul often went to the Temple and synagogues to preach Christ to both Jews and Gentiles. It is never recorded that Paul or the Apostles preached Sabbath keeping to Jews or Gentiles. Notice Paul in Acts 17:2, did not go to the synagogue to keep the Sabbath or to worship. Worship was done at the temple, not the synagogues. The synagogues were used to teach the Torah. Paul taught from the Torah how Christ fulfilled the prophecies found in the Torah. Not once in the book of Acts is the Sabbath a point of discussion. Gentiles were coming into the church by the thousands and were not taught the Sabbath Commandment or how to keep the Sabbath, or the penalties for breaking the Sabbath.
  • Acts 17:2 - Acts 17:4 (NIV) 2As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ, he said. 4Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.
Does Paul quoting the Ten Commandments prove that the Sabbath is binding on the church?
Rom 13:8 - Rom 13:10 (NIV)
8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,†“Do not murder,†“Do not steal,†“Do not covet,†and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.†10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Paul was always silent when it came to Sabbath keeping. He does quote the Ten Commandments, but not as a duty for the church. Paul is saying the duty for Christians is to love your neighbor as yourself and it is this that fulfills the requirements of the Torah/Law. The Jewish audience that Paul was addressing believed that if they kept the Ten Commandments they were fulfilling all the Torah/Law but they were not, if they did not love their neighbor. Gal 5:13 - Gal 5:14 (NIV) 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.†Matt 5:44 - Matt 5:44 (NIV) 43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

Answering Sabbath Arguments

Here is a list of often used arguments to support the Sabbath.
  1. Argument: God rested on the Sabbath at creation, he made the day holy, and sanctified the day. Therefore all mankind is bound to keep the day holy.
    Gen 2:3 - Gen 2:3 (NIV) 2By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.


    The term "Sabbath" is not used in the Genesis account. Genesis tells us that only God rested on the Seventh day but not Adam and Eve. Each day of creation had an evening and morning, but the Sabbath had no evening. Gen. 2:2. Of course the 7th day ended as any other day of the week ended with the setting sun. Was the first 7th day celebration to last for eternity if sin had not entered the world? Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day so did they have need to rest from their labor the next day? No. It was after sin that Adam had to earn his food by the sweat of his brow.

    God was very specific in giving Adam and Eve commands on what they should and should not do before they sinned. Adam could name the animals, what they could eat in the garden, the penalty for eating from the forbidden "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but no command or penalty for keeping the 7th day holy. Even after they sinned, God told Eve she would be subject to her husband and bear children in pain, and the earth would be cursed with thorns and thistles and Adam would have to work for his food, and that they would die. But still no command to keep the Sabbath. The Genesis account does not support God giving the Sabbath to Adam and Eve as a rest day, especially a Levitical rest day with all the restrictions.
    [/*:m:b1f60]
  2. Argument: Abraham kept all God's commandments, therefore he kept the Sabbath.
    Gen 26:5 (NIV) 5because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.â€Â


    The Law was not given to Abraham as it was given by God to Moses. John 1:16 through John 1:18 (NIV) 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

    Abraham did keep God's commandments, but not the Sabbath. God "commanded" Abraham to change his name from Abram to Abraham, to believe God, to leave his home in Ur and go to a country he did not know, to be circumcised, to offer up his son Isaac, etc. Abraham never saw the tables of stone. The laws that Abraham obeyed were not the Levitical Laws. Circumcision evidently was more important to God than the Sabbath as God made circumcision the Covenant sign and not the Sabbath with Abraham. Gen 17:10 - Gen 17:11 (NIV) 10This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.
    [/*:m:b1f60]
  3. Argument: The Sabbath is an eternal covenant or a lasting covenant, depending on the translation, therefore it will never end.
    Ex 31:16 - Ex 31:17 (NIV) 16The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.’â€Â


    God told Israel the time would come that he would end their Sabbaths.

    Hosea 2:11 (NIV)

    11 I will stop all her celebrations:
    1 1her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
    1 1her Sabbath daysâ€â€all her appointed feasts.

    All the Sabbaths not just the 7th day Sabbath, were a "lasting covenant" that God made with Israel. As long as the Old Covenant was in force so was all eleven Sabbaths. See Leviticus 23 for the list of Sabbaths.

    Examples of Lasting Ordinances and Covenants".

    Feast of Unleavened Bread: Lev 23:6 - Lev 23:8 (NIV)
    6On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD’S Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.’â€ÂEx 12:16 - Ex 12:17 (NIV) 17“Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread, because it was on this very day that I brought your divisions out of Egypt. Celebrate this day as a lasting ordinance for the generations to come.

    Lamps:
    Ex 27:20 - Ex 27:21 (NIV)
    21In the Tent of Meeting, outside the curtain that is in front of the Testimony, Aaron and his sons are to keep the lamps burning before the LORD from evening till morning. This is to be a lasting ordinance among the Israelites for the generations to come.

    Circumcision:
    Gen 17:13 - Gen 17:14 (NIV)
    13Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.â€Â

    Live in Booths seven days:

    Lev 23:41 - Lev 23:43 (NIV)
    1Celebrate this as a festival to the LORD for seven days each year. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come; celebrate it in the seventh month. 42Live in booths for seven days: All native-born Israelites are to live in booths 43so your descendants will know that I had the Israelites live in booths when I brought them out of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.’â€Â

    Some Sabbatarians want to make just the 7th day Sabbath holy and "eternal covenant" to meet their agenda and discard the other ten Sabbaths found in Deuteronomy 23 . Paul tells us that these weekly, monthly and yearly Sabbaths are temporary "a shadow." Col 2:16 - Col 2:17 (NIV) 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
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  4. Argument: Isaiah proves the Sabbath is eternal as it will be kept in the earth made new.
    Isa 66:22 - Isa 66:24 (NIV) 22“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,†declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,†says the LORD. 24“And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.â€Â


    The promises God made to Israel was based on them being God's Covenant people. Under the Old Covenant, there were Sabbaths to be kept each month as well as the weekly Sabbath. The "New Moon" applies to the monthly Sabbaths. See Leviticus 23, to see the list. These monthly Sabbaths pointed to Christ and ended with the Old Covenant. Will the Sabbatarians in the New Earth go out on the Sabbath day and view dead bodies? Will they see "worms that will not die" and "fire that will not be quenched" and "they will be loathsome to all mankind"? God's plan for the New Earth under the New Covenant, there will be no more death or tears. If the messages of Isaiah applies to the Christian Church, then we are faced with a lot of problems. Isa. 65:17, talks about when God will create a new heaven and earth. vs. 20, people that do not live to be 100 will be accursed. (People will die in the new earth?) vs. 22, people will live as long as a tree. (Many trees do not live 20 years) vs 23, women will bear children. (Jesus tells us, there will be no marriage in heaven.) As you can see this has nothing to do with the Christian belief of the New Heaven and the New Earth. If Israel had been faithful/obedient to God these blessings would have come to them. Isaiah's prophecy applies only to Israel and not Christ's Church. Will the saints really need a weekly Sabbath to rest from their labor, to remember they were delivered from Egypt and that it was God that created the world? I think not.

    The Sabbath will not be kept in the New Jerusalem!

    Rev 21:23 - Rev 21:25 (NIV) 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

    How indeed can the Sabbath be kept in the New Jerusalem with out any night to define the start and end of the day? Is God going to ring a bell? It is ridicules to think the saints will need a day "of rest" once a week to commune with God or to rest from work.
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  5. Argument: Jesus did not abolish the Ten Commandment law, therefore the Sabbath is binding.
    Matt 5:17 - Matt 5:19 (NIV) 17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    [list:b1f60]
  6. First what is the "Law and the Prophets that Jesus did not abolish? The Law is called the Torah or the Pentateuch, which are the first five books of Moses. Never is the Ten Commandments called "the law". The "Law" pointed to Christ in the Sanctuary Service. The Prophets are the books written by the Prophets and many of these prophesied of the coming of the Messiah. The Law is not limited in this case to the Ten. Matt 11:12-Matt 11:13 (NIV) 13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. [/*:m:b1f60]
  7. Second what does fulfill mean? First notice that the law will "disappear" when everything is accomplished. Jesus fulfilled the Law/Torah and the prophecy of the Prophets that pointed to his manner of coming and death. This has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments as it does not point to Christ. Once Christ "fulfilled" the prophecy, it would never be done again. Matt 1:22 - Matt 1:23 (NIV) 22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23“The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuelâ€â€which means, “God with us.†Matt 21:4 - Matt 21:5 (NIV) 4This took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: 5 “Say to the Daughter of Zion, ‘See, your king comes to you, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.’ [/*:m:b1f60]
  8. If Jesus were to abolish the law he could not be the Savior as he could not fulfill it. The law foretold what Jesus would accomplish.[/*:m:b1f60]
  9. What does "until everything is accomplished?" "Everything was accomplished" at the cross when Jesus, the Lamb of God made full atonement for sins by shedding his blood. The curtain between the Holy and Most Holy was torn into, where anyone now could see into the Most Holy Apartment. This alone shows that the Old Covenant ended. "Everything accomplished" is not the end of the world as taught by Sabbatarians, but what Christ came to accomplish at Calvary. John 19:29 - John 19:30 (NIV) 30When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.†With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. [/*:m:b1f60]
  10. "heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." This is true, as long as heaven and earth remains, not a stroke of a pen would change the Torah, it remained intact till Jesus fulfilled the prophecies found in the Torah/Law at Calvary. [/*:m:b1f60]
    [*]Those that practice and keep the commandments will be called great. "Commandments" does not mean just the Ten Commandments it was all the commandments in the found in the Torah. Jesus was speaking to the Jews that were still under the Old Covenant. The Torah had 613 commandments and God commanded Israel to be keep them all.[/*:m:b1f60]
[/*:m:b1f60]
[*]Argument: If you break one law you break them all. Therefore breaking the Sabbath makes a person a law breaker.
James 2:9 - James 2:13 (NIV) 8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,†you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,†also said, “Do not murder.†If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!


James does not identify the "royal law" as the Ten Commandments. The "royal law" must be the Torah as this is where the command "to love your neighbor" is found. Lev 19:17 - Lev 19:18 (NIV) 18“‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
The Ten Commandments are just one part of the Torah/Law. James says that if you "stumble" in just one point of the law, which is 613 commandments of the Torah, your are guilty of breaking them all. Paul uses then uses the Ten Commandments as an illustration for those that were attempting to live by the Torah/law that they will be judged by the Torah. Those that break the Sabbath will be judged as breaking all the Torah not just the Ten Commandments. The New Covenant does not tell the church they will be judged by the Torah.
  • Matt 22:36 - Matt 22:40 (NIV) 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?†37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.â€Â
[/*:m:b1f60]
[*]Argument: The Lord's Day is the 7th day Sabbath, because Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.
Rev 1:9 - Rev 1:10 (NIV) 10On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,


This is one of many examples of Sabbatarians twisting the meaning of words in the Bible. The Lord's Day is used one time in the Bible. Rev 1:10 (NIV) 10On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

Never is the Sabbath called "the Lord's Day" in the Scriptures. The Sabbath is always called in the Greek Sabbaton or in the Hebrew Shabbath. Strong's: G4521 σάββατον sabbaton sab'-bat-on Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself);

The term "Lord's Day" is used one time in Scripture. Never in the Bible is the Sabbath ever called the Lord's Day. The Church fathers in the first centuries called Sunday, "the Lord's Day" because Christ rose from the grave on Sunday. They choose this day as a celebration for their deliverance from sin and salvation by Christ. Thus, they called Sunday the first day of the week, the LORD'S DAY. This did not make Sunday a holy day or a Sunday Sabbath.
[/*:m:b1f60]
[*]Argument: Worshiping on Sunday is honoring the sun god.

Jesus rose from the grave early on the first day of the week, Sunday. Was Jesus honoring the sun god? The pagans of the Roman empire never celebrated a weekly day to the sun god. It is despicable for Sabbatarians to insinuate those that go to church on Sunday are worshiping or honoring a pagan god. Sabbatarians go to church on week days. If they go to prayer meeting on Wednesday for example are they worshipping the pagan god, Woden, chief god in Norse mythology? As you can see this is a ridiculous allegation to make against Christians that worship the Creator.
[/*:m:b1f60]
[*]Argument: Christians should worship on the Sabbath Day.

Christ never commanded a day for worship for his church or a day of the week to worship. God gave Israel a day of rest, after being in bondage in Egypt after their deliverance from making bricks. The Jews had sabbaths that fell on week days as well as going to the Temple in Jerusalem three times a day every day to pray.

If you notice only the Israelites were commanded to keep the Sabbath "covenant." The Sabbath was never given to any other nation or race of people on the face of the earth. Until an Israelite was circumcised, he was a Gentile and could not keep the Sabbath. The same with any Gentile that came into the camp of Israel, they had to be circumcised and become a Jew to keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath Covenant is only for the circumcised. The Sabbath was a "lasting" as long as Israel was God's Covenant people. When Israel rejected Christ, they were no longer under the Covenant God made with them. Under the New Covenant circumcision was abolished, so how could a person keep the Sabbath according to the Levitical Sabbath law of the Torah without first being circumcised? This proves that the Sabbath ended.
[/*:m:b1f60]
[*]Argument: Hebrews 4 proves Christians are to keep the Sabbath.
  • Heb 4:9 - Heb 4:11 (NIV) 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
Israel had the 7th day Sabbath, but they did not have the Sabbath-rest in God. Now God wants his church to have the rest in him that he promised Israel. If we are led by the Spirit, we will enter that rest. This offer by God has nothing to do with keeping the 7th day Sabbath.[/*:m:b1f60][/list:o:b1f60]

Sabbatarians Judge non Sabbath Keepers! It is Sabbatarians that judge Christians that do not keep the Sabbath as breaking God's law and making it a salvation issue. It is rare to see Christians judging Sabbatarians for keeping the Sabbath.

Rom 14:4 - Rom 14:8 (NIV)
4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

I am like the man Paul says that "considers every day alike."

Summary
  1. The Ten Commandments are the words of the Old Covenant. [/*:m:b1f60]
  2. The Old Covenant is the covenant God made with Israel at Sinai. [/*:m:b1f60]
  3. The Old Covenant is ONE LAW, not two that includes moral, ceremonial, and civil regulations, including the Ten Commandments. [/*:m:b1f60]
  4. The Old Covenant was given to only to Israel and not other nation or people. No one saw the tables written on stone till Moses. [/*:m:b1f60]
  5. The Old Covenant including the Ten Commandments was in force till the death of Jesus on Calvary. [/*:m:b1f60]
  6. God made a New Covenant with Israel that was much better than the Old Covenant. [/*:m:b1f60]
  7. The New Covenant was better because Christians would have to keep 613 laws of the Old Covenant, which would convict them as sinners. Israel looked to "the law" to find their duty. Christians now look to Christ and are "led by the spirit" to live a moral life. [/*:m:b1f60]
  8. The New Covenant expands the moral principles found in the Old Covenant. The Sabbath is not a moral principle, but a ceremonial weekly ritual that was given ONLY TO ISRAEL. The Sabbath like tithe, is never commanded in the New Covenant.[/*:m:b1f60]

Sabbath Keeping is An Alaska Problem!


This shows that the Sabbath was a regional, temporary command
for Israel and not for the world.


From: TOAMREALTY@aol.com [mailto:TOAMREALTY@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:01 PM
Subject: Sabbath

Interesting problem in Alaska ....according to the officious SDA sunset calculator, on Friday eve, May 30th, in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, the sun set below the horizon, bringing with it the Jewish Shabbat, at 11:38 PM, almost midnight. Note: AK is so far west, it is on Hawaiian time!!! Here is the quote:

Calculations for:
Longitude: -148.34000
Latitude: 70.27000 Prudhoe Bay, Alaska
Time Zone: Hawaiian Standard Time, HST

Date: 5/30/03 Friday
Sunrise: 0:07am HST (sunrise Friday morning)
Sunset: 11:38pm HST (sunset, Friday night, becoming sabbath)
Next, we find sunrise on Sabbath, May 31st, actually starts before midnight Friday night!!! and el sol invictus stays up all day Sabbath, and into Sabbath night, and into Sunday morning, and into Sunday night, for the next two months!!!!!

Date: 5/31/03
Sunrise: Sun above horizon HST
Sunset: Sun above horizon HST (meaning the sun never sets!!!! ) meaning: if you live and work in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, extracting dino remains buried and liquified by Noah's flood less than 4500 years ago, you have a problem!!!!! (no!! dummy!! not the recent age of the earth!!!!)... you have to quit working!!!

Because on Friday night, May 30th, when the sun went down at 1l:38, bringing in the holy Lord's day, you had to stop working, thou, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and all the strangers within thy igloo. But the sun came up again on Sabbath just a few minutes later, but never went down after that!!!

As I scribble this nonsense it is still Sabbath in Prudhoe Bay...cause the sun never went down....no Saturday sunset. So if you believe literally that you must keep sabbath from sunset on Friday night to Sabbath sunset.....the next day, Sabbath, did NOT have a sunset this summer!!! Won't be a sunset for another two months!!!!! So you are faced with keeping Sabbath for two months straight, and giving up your job with Exxon!!!! Unless of course, you are the camp padre, trying to spread the word that black gold comes from dead dinos who missed the ark, or in the medical profession raking in piles of dough and salving your conscience by paying plenty of tithe to keep the hired-archy gainfully employed....

John

For more information on the Sabbath

Renouncing the Sabbath After 47 Years by Robert K. Sanders

Pope_Did_Not_Change_Sabbath_Sunday.htm by Robert K. Sanders

Sunday the First Centuries by Robert K. Sanders

NL_April6_03.htm Former SDA Pastor Gregg Taylor explains why the Sabbath is not relevant for Christians.

[url="http://www.ratzlaf.com/downloads.htm"]http://www.ratzlaf.com/downloads.htm[/url] See the Covenants,
The Continental Divide of Bible Interpretations
by former SDA pastor Dale Ratzlaff. This is a must read!

"Sabbath in Christ" A new book by former SDA Pastor Dale Ratzlaff, that explains how Sabbath keepers have been misled. Be a Bible Berean and read this book. Thousands including SDA pastors have left the SDA Church after getting their eyes opened. Order from: [url="http://www.ratzlaf.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1001714459&BACK=A0001A1"]http://www.ratzlaf.com/Qstore/Qstore.cg ... CK=A0001A1[/url]

[url]http://www.sabbaths.org/sabbath.html[/url] Rob Chaffart
 
THE SABBATH & SUNDAY
by Pastor J. Mark Martin


WHEN THE COUNSEL OF ACTS 15 CONVENED to determine what Gentile Christians must observe, SABBATH KEEPING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT. Peter exhorts the leadership of the Church not to place the Gentiles under the Law:

Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Acts 15:10-11.

The final judgment of the Jerusalem Council contains no reference to Sabbath keeping. Circumcision was discussed and deemed unnecessary (vss. 5-6; 19-20). If Sabbath keeping were to be an essential part of the New Covenant relationship with God it would have been mentioned in the discussion because it would have been an unfamiliar practice to the Gentiles. Sabbath keeping was not even discussed because it is not a requirement for New Covenant believers:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (Acts 15:28-29).

NOTICE that the Holy Spirit told them NOT to lay upon the Gentiles any greater burden than THOSE ESSENTIALS. OBVIOUSLY THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT THINK SABBATH KEEPING WAS AN ESSENTIAL THING ANYMORE!

The 7 post-resurrection appearances of Christ show that Jesus purposefully chose the first day of the week to meet with His disciples to encourage and exhort them. The evidence shows that five of these appearances occurred on a Sunday, the first day of the week. We do no have a record of what the actual day on which the other appearances (John 21 and Acts 1:6-10) occurred to His disciples. What we can say with accuracy is this, after Jesus' resurrection whenever He met with His disciples and the day is identified, it is NOT the Sabbath, it is the first day of the week!

  • 1). To Mary, On the morning of the resurrection - Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9; John 20:11-18

    2). To two disciples going to Emmaus - Luke 24:13-33; Mark 16:12-13

    3). To Simon (Peter) - Luke 24:31-35.

    4). To the eleven disciples on the evening of Resurrection Sunday
    - Mark 16:14-18;Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-23

    5). To the Eleven disciples "Eight days later" - John 20:26-29[list:89e80]
    Pentecost happened on the first day of the week! The Church was born on the first day of the week! That doesn't make Sunday the Sabbath, it just tells you that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Sabbath is not emphasized.

    When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week.

    1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).

    2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).

    3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the communion meal (Luke 22:19) and their "eyes were opened and they recognized Him" (Luke 24:31).

    4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying "Peace be with you" (John 20:20-26).

    5). That same Sunday evening Jesus "...breathed on them and said, 'receive the Holy Spirit'"
    John 20:22.

    6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).
[/list:u:89e80]

NOTE: Why did the Disciples meet on Sunday?

  • 1). Because it now carried a special symbolic/anti-typical significance for them

    2). Even if it didn't and was by chance, --Jesus still chose to reveal Himself to them only on Sunday, when we know what day it is. That must also hold some kind of Divine significance.

    3). Jesus could have chosen to meet with His disciple on the Sabbath. This would have clearly set a New Covenant precedent. He did not chose to do this. The Sabbath was the sign of a fulfilled covenant (see Exodus 31:17 & Hebrews 8:13).
THE NINE "MORAL" COMMANDS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED in the New Testament:
  • 1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
    2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
    3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
    4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
    5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
    6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
    7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
    8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
    9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times

    Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath
    is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?
WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT:
  • In Mark 7:21-22 13 sins are listed. Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath.
    In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking.
    In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given,
    In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned!
WHY IS IT THAT NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT IS IT TAUGHT THAT THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT MUST BE OBSERVED?
  • -Why is it that nowhere in the New Testament is failure to keep the Sabbath day condemned as sin?

    -Why is the fourth commandment itself not repeated even ONCE in the New Testament?

    -If the Sabbath keeping is so important for a disciple of Christ, why was it not mentioned in His sermon on the Mount or in ANY of His teachings?

    -Why didn't Jesus command Sabbath keeping?

    -Why didn't any of the Apostles command Sabbath keeping?

    -Why didn't the Jerusalem counsel command Sabbath keeping or condemn Sabbath breaking? (Acts 15)

  • [list:89e80]Some answer that the Jews already knew about the Sabbath so it was taken for granted that they would continue to keep it, but then why were the other nine commandments reiterated? Would they not be taken for granted as well? It would also seem that with so many Gentiles coming into the Church, that if keeping the Sabbath was so important there would be instruction in the New Testament Epistles somewhere concerning it. There are instructions for them concerning morality, ethics, worship, Church order and family lifestyle. Why would something as important as Sabbath keeping be ignored? Circumcision, which predates the Law and the Sabbath commandment was an issue in the New Testament Church and is addressed repeatedly in the New Testament Epistles and by the Jerusalem Counsel.
[/list:u:89e80]

Sabbath keepers argue that it is the example of Jesus that gives us the reason for keeping the Sabbath. "He kept the Sabbath, so I must keep the Sabbath. Jesus is my example," they say. Well this kind of reasoning is flawed because it only chooses Jesus' Sabbath keeping and rejects the rest of His Jewish lifestyle. Jesus also kept Kosher laws. He kept the Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah, and worshipped in the temple. Are we to follow everything He did?

  • Galatians 4:4-5 says that Jesus lived under the Law to redeem us from the Law.

    "But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons." (NIV)

JESUS WAS ALSO ACCUSED OF SABBATH BREAKING.

Why, if He wanted to be our "example" in Sabbath keeping didn't He make it clear that He was not breaking the Sabbath? Instead He clearly admits to it. He also admits that His disciples were breaking the Sabbath and He defends them. Read Matthew 12:1- 14 carefully. Jesus is clearly saying that His disciples are like the priests who may work in the temple every Sabbath and be innocent of breaking the Sabbath. When Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath" He is declaring that He is above the Sabbath. He may do what He wishes on the Sabbath and therefore His disciples may do whatever they wish as well.

Apparently Jesus did break the Sabbath: "Therefore some of the Pharisees were saying, "This man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath."..." John 9:15. If Jesus did not want us to understand that He was breaking the Sabbath why did He not speak against these accusations. It's because Jesus had the right and the authority to break the Sabbath because He is Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath does not bind Him. Think about this, if it does not bind Him, are we not "in Christ"? Why would it be any more binding upon us. (Again Read Matthew 12:1-14 carefully).

One of the issues that needs to be honestly faced is the fact that Jesus never commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath and none of His apostles ever commanded anyone to keep it either. Not once in the New Testament are we told to keep the Sabbath. Those commands to the Church are conspicuously absent from the teachings of the New Testament.

EVERY MENTION OF THE SABBATH IN THE BOOK OF ACTS without a single exception is in connection with Jewish worship on that day and not Christian celebration. Paul's evangelistic strategy was to go to the Jews first in a community and share the Gospel with them. Sabbath is the day when he knew he would find the most Jews gathering for worship. He knew he would have his best opportunity of sharing the good news of the Messiah to the Jews on Sabbath. It was not because he was meeting with a group of believing Christians. He was meeting with non-Christian Jews.

IS THE TEN COMMANDMENT LAW ETERNAL?

  • No, the Law is not eternal. Galatians 3:19 gives the purpose of the Law. It says: "What, then, was the purpose of he law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."

    The law was given 430 years after Abraham. "What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise." Galatians 3:17-18.

    The Law had a definite beginning time (430 years after Abraham) and a definite ending time, --When the promised Seed (Christ, vs. 16) came.

    Other Scriptures such as Romans 5:12-14 indicate that there can be sin in the world, even BEFORE the Law was given. "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned -- for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's offense, who is a type of Him who was to come."

CREATION & THE SABBATH: The Scriptures are very clear that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment was not given before Moses:

  • The Ten Commandments was not made with the fathers. Deuteronomy 5:2-3 says

    "The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today."

    Nehemiah 9:13-14 says: "You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." (NIV).

WAS THE SABBATH GIVEN FOR ALL MANKIND TO KEEP PERPETUALLY?


  • No, - Though Genesis 2:1-3 says that after the Lord had ended all His work He rested on the seventh day and blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, there is not a word about it being given to Adam and Eve as a commandment. You don't hear another word about the Sabbath in the entire book of Genesis. All fifty chapters are silent about the Sabbath.

    You do not hear that the righteous Patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob kept the Sabbath. There is a conspicuous silence for 2,500 years after the Fall of man. It is not until after the redemption of God's people Israel out of Egypt when they are safely on the other side of the Red Sea that you read in the Book of Exodus that the Sabbath is mentioned again. (Exodus 16:22-30). Abraham was given commandments and ordinances, but the Sabbath is never mentioned as one of them.[list:89e80]
    Then the Sabbath is given to Israel and Israel alone. The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel. "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he ceased from labor, and was refreshed." Exodus 31:12-17

Notice that the reason why the Lord links the Sabbath to creation is that He is identifying Himself to Israel as the true and living Creator God. He is separate and apart from all of the other gods of Egypt and of the Gentile world. "Keep the Sabbath, worship Me, for I AM the true, living Creator of the Universe."

Notice also that this Sabbath "SIGN" (Exodus 31:13) is between God and "the sons of Israel" (Exodus 12:15,17) and not for all of mankind.[/list:u:89e80]

Nehemiah 9:13-14 indicates that the Sabbath was not given to be kept by anyone until it was given to Israel in the wilderness. "You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." (NIV).

DOESN'T THE BIBLE SAY THAT THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN?

"And He was saying to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." Mark 2:27. Sabbatarians often use this verse to say that the Sabbath was made for all mankind, but the text doesn't say that. It doesn't say, "The Sabbath was made for "mankind", it says, "the Sabbath was made for man". When the Scripture is meant to be inclusive of all mankind it is clear. See Matthew 28:19; John 3:16; Acts 2:17; I Timothy 2:4; Titus 2:11. These verses clearly indicate that when God offers something to all mankind He clearly offers it to all.

The Sabbath was not offered to all the nations. It was given only to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. It is clearly stated that God did not give the Sabbath or other commandments to the fathers before (see verses 2-3).

One writer has brought up the point that this text shows that the Sabbath was not a part of the "moral" Law to be kept by all mankind from the beginning, for it had to be made. It was made in Exodus 16-20. Notice also that this text does not say it was made for man from the "beginning," as was marriage (cf Matthew 19:4ff). WHICH OTHER OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS HAD TO BE MADE? --NOT ONE! (Gerald N. Wright, Sabbatarian Concordance & Commentary, Star Bible & Tract Corp., 1977, pp. 78-79).

  • Wright commenting on this passage says: "The other nine [commandments] were (and are) inherently right from the beginning, reflecting God's righteous nature and being naturally a part of man's moral character, who was made in the image of God (cf Romans 2:14). Which command other than the sabbath is lower than man--subject to being set aside under certain circumstances? When, or under what circumstances, can man lawfully commit adultery? Obviously, never! Man's life is not above God's holy and moral laws. Yet even a sheep's life is more important than rigid enforcement of the sabbath (Matthew 12:10-12)!

NO "BURGER KING" SABBATHS - You can't "Have It Your Way" with the Sabbath. God specifies how it was to be kept.
  • -It was to be kept from sunset to sunset (Lev. 23:32)
    -No burden was to be carried (Jer. 17:21)
    -No fire kindled (Ex. 35:3)
    -No Cooking done (Ex. 16:23)
    -The penalty for doing any of these things during the Sabbath was DEATH (Numbers 15).

NO "INSPIRED" WRITER MAKES ANY DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE "MORAL" LAW & THE "CEREMONIAL" LAWS.
  • "(2) The Sabbath in its nature, is itself a ceremonial law: the moral law is all law which appeals to the conscience, and needs no written revelation; but as to which day to observe, or whether to observe any day at all, conscience is silent. If we are to distinguish between the moral and the ceremonial law, on the ground that one is passed, and the other still in force, then--as the Sabbath is purely ceremonial law--it is passed. But the most important point still remains. (3) I, as a Christian, obey all law that is moral in the Decalogue, not because it is in the Law, but because it is in the Gospel. Worship of God only is enjoined fifty times in the New Testament; idolatry is forbidden twelve times; profanity four times; honor of father and mother is commanded six times; adultery is forbidden twelve; theft six; false witness four; and covetousness, nine times. "The Ten Commandments," as Luther says, "do not apply to us Gentiles and Christians, but only to the Jews." So the Sabbath--except in a single passage where, classing it with the entire law, he declares it has been totally abolished. So the early Church held."[list:89e80]--D. M. Panton, cited in Heresies Exposed, Compiled by Irvine, pp. 164-165.
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SOME SABBATARIANS CLAIM THAT THE SABBATH IS THE SEAL OF GOD

  • The Seal of God is NOT the Sabbath! The Bible tells us clearly that the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer the moment he is saved.

    Ephesians 1:13 says, "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory."

    Ephesians 4:30 warns, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

    2 Corinthians 1:21-22 states "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."

IS A SABBATH KEEPING CHURCH THE "REMNANT" OR COMMANDMENT KEEPING CHURCH THAT IS SPOKEN OF IN REVELATION 12:17?
  • Rev. 12:17 says, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

    In the New Covenant, what are the "Commandments" of God? Does this mean Ten Commandments? NO! The Greek word used for the Ten Commandments is "NOMOS". That word is not used here. The word used here is "ENTELE" and means "teachings".

    John clarifies this and actually tells us what the "commandments" are that we are to keep:[list:89e80]
    I John 5:1-3 says, "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God; and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
These verses are often used to teach people that they must keep the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath. However, the Apostle John defines the "commandments" for us. In the prior chapter he defines them explicitly. "Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in is sight. And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. And the one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him..."
I John 3:21-24a.[/list:u:89e80]

THE ASSERTION BY SABBATARIANS THAT AT THE COUNCIL OF LAODICEA THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH changed the Sabbath from the Seventh day to the First day is not true. The Sabbath was not changed at that Council.

  • What did take place at that Council was an anti-semetic move to make it illegal for a Christian to worship on Saturday. But one needs to note that there were thousands of Christians already worshiping on Sunday, the first day of the week. Many in the early Church worshipped on Sunday:[list:89e80]
    "Anti-Judaism played its part in second-century Christian polemic against Jewish Sabbath observance, but it does not follow that it motivated the introduction of Christian Sunday worship. For we have already argued that Sunday worship dates back to the first century, while few second-century writers compare and contrast the Jewish Sabbath and the Christian Sunday. Derogatory discussions of the Jewish Sabbath do not usually refer to the Christian Sunday. If Sunday were a recent substitute for the Jewish Sabbath, we should expect far more discussion of the superiority of Sunday to the Sabbath." R. J. Bauckham, From Sabbath to Lord's Day, p. 271, edited by D.A. Carson.
[/list:u:89e80]

EVIDENCE THAT THE EARLY CHURCH WORSHIPPED ON SUNDAY FROM THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS

  • THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS about A.D. 100 - "Wherefore, also we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead."

    THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS - A.D. 107 - "Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish Law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace....If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and By His death."

    THE WRITINGS OF JUSTIN MARTYR: A.D. 145-150 - "And on the day called Sunday all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read....But Sunday is the day on which we all hold a common assembly, because it is the first day of the week on which God...made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead."

    APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: Church life in the 2nd Century: - "On the day of the resurrection of the Lord--that is, the Lord's Day--assemble yourself together without fail, giving thanks to God and praising Him for those mercies God has bestowed upon you through Christ."

    IRENEAEUS: A.D. 155-202 - "The Mystery of the Lord's Resurrection may not be celebrated on any other day than the Lord's Day, and on this alone should we observe the breaking off of the Paschal Feast."

WHO CHANGED THE SABBATH FROM SATURDAY TO SUNDAY? WAS IT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH?

  • "Often the question is asked, "Isn't it paying homage to the Roman Catholic church to worship on Sunday because didn't Constantine change the day of worship?"

    It is claimed that Constantine's edict of March 7, 321 changed the day. Constantine's edict reads:[list:89e80]
    "On the venerable Day of The Sun [venerablili dei Solis] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits Codex Justinianus, book 3, title 12,3, trans. in Schaff, History of the Christian Church 5th ed. (New York: Charles Scribner, 1902), vol. 3, p. 380, note 1.

PLINY'S LETTER, AD 107

Pliny was governor of Bithynia, in Asia Minor, from AD 106-108. He wrote in AD 107 to Trajan, the emperor, concerning the Christians. This is what he said:

  • They were wont to meet together, on a stated day before it was light, and sing among themselves alternately a hymn to Christ as God....When these things were performed, it was their custom to separate and then to come together again to a meal which they ate in common without any disorder."
We know the day the early church broke bread on was Sunday. "Upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread" Acts 20:7.

IN AD 120 THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS says in chapter 2:

  • "Incense is a vain abomination unto me, and your new moons and Sabbaths I cannot endure. He has, therefore, abolished these things.

    When he speaks of the first day of the week, Barnabas says: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day, also, on which Jesusrose again from the dead" Chapter 25.

JUSTIN MARTYR (140 AD)

Justin's 'Apology' was written at Rome about the year 140, only 44 years after the apostle John received the vision of The Revelation at Patmos.

The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge says this about Justin's works:

  • "In these works Justin professes to present the system of doctrine held by all Christians and seeks to be orthodox on all points. The only difference he knows of as existing between Christians concerned the millennium. Thus Justin is an incontrovertible witness for the unity of the faith in the Church of his day, and the fact that the Gentile type of Christianity prevailed." Quoted by Canright in The Compete Testimony of the Early Fathers, Fleming H. Revell, 1916, pp. 24-25.

    NOTE: At this early date, AD 140, the only major difference among Christians was concerning the millennium. At that time they had no disagreement in keeping Sunday, and as you will see, Justin says that was the day on which all Christians worshipped.
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In chapter 67 of his first Apology, entitled, "Weekly Worship of the Christians,"writing to the pagan emperor, Justin states:

  • "...we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought...But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought the change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead."The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 1, pp. 185-186 (emphasis added).
DIONYSIUS, BISHOP OF CORINTH IN GREECE, (AD 170)

  • Dionysius was Bishop of Corinth, the Church which Paul raised up and to which he gave the command about Sunday collections, in I Corinthians 16:1-2. He says:[list:89e80]
    "We passed this holy Lord's Day, in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition." Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, Bk. 4, Chapt. 23 (emphasis added).
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CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA, in Egypt, (AD 194)

  • Clement, writing around AD 194 says:

    "He, in fulfillment of the precept, keeps the Lord's day when he abandons an evil disposition, and assumes that of the Gnostic, glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself" Book 7, Chapter 12 (emphasis added).

IGNATIUS, the third bishop of Antioch, who died in AD 108, wrote:

  • "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him... Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat."...let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]" "Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pp. 62-63 (emphasis added).
TERTULLIAN of Africa, wrote around AD 200:

  • In his Apology, Chapter 16, Tertullian says:

    "We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath, and devote it to ease and eating, deviating from the old Jewish customs, which they are now very ignorant of."

    "Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christian, because it is a well- known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity" The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, p. 123 (emphasis added).

    NOTE: The early church explained why they prayed toward the east. It was because, "as the lightning which lighteneth from the east and is seen even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of man be:" that by this we might know and understand that He will appear from the east suddenly" Ancient Syriac Documents, The Ante- Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, p. 668.
DO WE EVEN KNOW THE REAL SABBATH?

  • In 1582 Gregory XIII found a miscalculation in the calendar and decreed to drop October 5-14 and to drop 3 leap years in every century. In England 11 days (September 3-13) were dropped in 1752, in addition to other changes. (See Heresies Exposed, p. 167).

NEW LIGHT ON CEREMONIAL SABBATHS AND COLOSSIANS 2:16
  • An unbiased reading of Colossians 2:16 will show that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint (the Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek).

    Look at Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a,[list:89e80]
    • festival - yearly Sabbaths,
    • a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
    • or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"
    • CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.
When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed:
  • "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."
Verse 10 flatly states, "you observe...",

  • • days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Colossians 2)
    • months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Colossians 2)
    • seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Colossians 2)
    • and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)
Obviously Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy day, including the Sabbath.[/list:u:89e80]

SABBATARIANS have long challenged,[/b] "Find one verse in the Bible that shows the day of worship has been changed from Sabbath to Sunday."
  • [list:89e80]
    Well, that statement is part of building a straw man. It is not the issue. The New Testament makes that a moot point because it says it doesn't matter what day you worship on.
Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."


Galatians 4:9-11 "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."[/list:u:89e80]

[size=16=SABBATARIANS ASK FOR ONE TEXT IN THE BIBLE THAT COMMANDS SUNDAY WORSHIP, HERE IT IS:[/size=[/b]

LEVITICUS 23:5-11 - Look at verse 11: "'And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.'" The day after the Sabbath is Sunday.
  • Read on specifically looking at Leviticus 23:15 - "'You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord.'" This is the Feast of Pentecost. It was one of the compulsory feasts of Israel.

    Note on the day of Pentecost, a Sunday God's people were commanded to worship. God says, "On this same day you shall make a proclamation as well; you are to have a holy convocation. You shall do no laborious work. It is to be perpetual statute in all your dwelling places throughout your generations." Leviticus 23:21.

If you think this is only applying to "ceremonial" days, Leviticus 23 starts out talking about the weekly Sabbath (see Lev. 23:1-4). It is called an appointed time and a holy convocation, along with all the other feast days of Israel. No distinction is made by God between these holy days and the weekly Sabbath. He includes them as being equally holy. This would mean that under the Old Covenant the First Fruits Sunday and the Pentecost Sunday were as holy and sanctified as Saturday.

If you think this only applies to Israel, that's our point. The Ten Commandment Covenant, --the Old Covenant was made with Israel, and NOT with the Gentiles.

  • Look at Exodus 31:13, 16 and 17: "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you....So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;..."

References for the 9 "moral" commandments reiterated in the New Testament:


1st - Worship God -
  • (53 times) Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22(x2),23,24(x2); 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23(x2); 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9
2nd - No Idolatry -
  • (20 times) Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15
3rd - No Profanity -
  • (4 times) Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9
5th - Honor Parents -
  • (6 times) Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2
6th - Murder -
  • (7 times) Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11
7th - Adultery -
  • (12 times) Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14
8th - Stealing -
  • (6 times) Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28
9th - Lying -

  • (4 times) Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20
10th - Don't Covet -
  • (9 times) Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14

Unless otherwise indicated,
Scripture taken from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE(R),
Copyright The Lockman Foundation 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968,
1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977.
Used by permission.

© Copyright 1999, all rights reserved
Grace Upon Grace
12612 N. Black Canyon Hwy.
Phoenix, AZ 85029
web: http://www.sdaoutreach.org
Used by permission
 
Hi, John here:
Let me say this like this. If I was a Seventh-day Adventist, (and I am not)
and if I wanted 'sincere' folk to read the Truth that [only] their professed Virgin Doctrine hold, one of the best ways for God to bring it to the forefront for many minds to read & understand would by using these ex/Adventists & these ones who claim to be Christians to cut & past up all the research that the devil has to offer up! Yet, just think of all of this free publicity!! :wink:

How else did the Everlasting Gospel reach the soon to be destroyed population of Christ's 70 AD day? Read Matthew 10:5-38 for where we are now entering! And take a deep pause at verse (Matthew 10:23) 23 for the one who was speaking of His return! Yet, who are the ones being killed here, and who are the ones who have the spirit & 'desire' of their master to kill? See Genesis 4:7 in the K.J.
 
The State of the Dead

By Pastor J. Mark Martin

Here are some clear New Testament statements concerning the state of the dead:

1. A PERSON IS MADE UP OF THREE PARTS – SPIRIT, SOUL & BODY:
  • 1 Thessalonians 5:23
    "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    There is a difference between a person's breath and spirit:[list:8b027]
    Isaiah 42:5
    "Thus says God the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and its offspring, who gives breath to the people on it, and spirit to those who walk in it."

    Job 7:11
    "Therefore I will not restrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul."
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2. A PERSON'S SOUL AND SPIRIT ARE MORE THAN BREATH, THEY HAVE EMOTIONS:
  • 1 Samuel 18:1
    "Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself."

    2 Samuel 5:8
    "And David said on that day, 'Whoever would strike the Jebusites, let him reach the lame and the blind, who are hated by David's soul, through the water tunnel.' Therefore they say, the blind or the lame shall not come into the house."

    Job 14:20-22
    "You forever overpower him and he departs; You change his appearance and send him away. His sons achieve honor, but he does not know it; Or they become insignificant, but he does not perceive it. But his body pains him, And he mourns only for himself."

    Mark 14:34
    "And He said to them, 'My soul is deeply grieved to the point of death; remain here and keep watch.'"

    Psalm 107:26
    "They rose up to the heavens, they went down to the depths; Their soul melted away in their misery."

    Luke 2:35
    "...and a sword will pierce even your own soul- to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."

3. A PERSON'S SPIRIT IS WHAT IS REGENERATED
  • John 3:6,7
    "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'"
4. GOD WORKS THROUGH A PERSON'S SPIRIT
  • Proverbs 20:27
    "The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord, searching all the innermost parts of his being."[/b]
5. A PERSON'S SPIRIT HAS:
  • INTELLIGENCE - 1 Corinthians 2:11
    "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God."

    EMOTIONS - John 11:33
    "When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her, also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled."
6. THE SOUL AND THE SPIRIT ARE SEPARATED FROM THE BODY AT DEATH:
  • Luke 8:54,55
    "He, however, took her by the hand and called, saying, 'Child, arise!' And her spirit returned, and she rose immediately; and He gave orders for something to be given her to eat."

    Matthew 10:28
    "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both the soul and body in hell."

    James 2:26
    "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

    1 Kings 17:21,22
    "Then he stretched himself upon the child three times, and called to the Lord, and said, 'O Lord my God, I pray Thee, let this child's life return to him.' And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah, and the life of the child returned to him and he revived."

    The term "death" which is "thanatas" in Greek, does not mean to be non-existent or unconscious, it rather means to be separated.[list:8b027]
    Colossians 2:13

    "And when you were dead (separated from God -- NOT "unconscious") in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions..."

    Romans 7:4,10,13
    "Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God… and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;… Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful."

    1 Timothy 5:6
    "But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives."

    Revelation 3:1
    "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars, says this: I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead."

    Ephesians 2:1,5
    "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins... even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)… "
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7. THERE IS A DESTINATION AFTER DEATH:
  • Philippians 1:21-24
    "For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I don't know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake."

    2 Corinthians 5:6-8
    "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-- for we walk by faith, not by sight-- we are of good courage, I say... and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

8. THE SOUL IS CONSCIOUS AFTER DEATH:

  • Revelation 6:9-11
    "And when He broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, O Lord, holy and true, wilt Thou refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, should be completed also."[list:8b027]
    Obviously, a person's soul is more than his breath. These souls under the altar are not "breaths" that are robed and crying out to God!


    Note that these souls are conscious after death. They were martyred and after death are very much alive in heaven. They have the ability to cry out to God and to wear white robes. God Himself tells them that more of their brethren will join them after they are killed.
These souls are seen again in Revelation 20:4
"And I saw thrones; and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

More Scriptures Indicating the Consciousness of the Soul After Death:

  • Job 26:5,6

    "The departed spirits tremble under the waters and their inhabitants. Naked is Sheol before Him and Abaddon has no covering."

    Matthew 22:31,32
    "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?' God is not the God of the dead but of the living." Jesus' point is that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are still alive right now.

    See Luke 16:19-31 - The Rich Man and Lazarus – this is not a parable, but a story that really happened. Every time Jesus uses a parable it is introduced to us as a parable. One must ask the question: "If Jesus believed and taught soul-sleep, why would he use a story like this which has both main characters alive and conscious AFTER death?"

    1 Thessalonians 5:10
    "...who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him." (NT always refers to physical death as being asleep).

    2 Corinthians 5:8
    "...we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

    Philippians 1:23
    "But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better..."

This is Consistent with the Old Testament Witness:

  • Read Israel's taunt to the King of Babylon. It indicates an Old Testament understanding of consciousness after death:

    Isaiah 14:9-11; 15-17
    "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones. They will all respond and say to you, 'Even you have been made weak as we, you have become like us. Your pomp and the music of your harps have been brought down to Sheol; maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you, and worms are your covering.' Vss.15-17: "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, to the recesses of the pit. Those who see you will gaze at you, they will ponder over you, saying, 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a wilderness and overthrew its cities who did not allow his prisoners to go home?'"
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9. WHEN THE SOUL LEAVES THE BODY, THE BODY SLEEPS

  • The term "sleep" is never applied to the soul or the spirit, but only to a believer's body. The soul and the spirit continue to exist after death. The body "sleeps" and goes back to dust. The following verses refer to the state of the body at death as sleep:

    Matthew 9:24
    "He began to say, 'Depart; for the girl has not died, but is asleep.' And they were laughing at Him."

    John 11:11
    "This He said, and after that He said to them, 'Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, that I may awaken him out of sleep.'"

    Acts 7:59-60
    "And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!' And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord do not hold this sin against them!' And having said this, he fell asleep."

    Acts 13:36
    "For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers, and underwent decay."

    1 Thessalonians 4:14
    "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus."


10. A BELIEVER'S BODY WILL BE RESURRECTED WHEN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST RETURNS:

  • 1 Corinthians 15:50-53
    "Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

    Believers who are with the Lord will come back with Him to receive new bodies at the resurrection.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
    "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

    Compare Revelation 6:9-11 with 2 Corinthians 5:1-4,8:[list:8b027]
    Revelation 6:9-11
    "When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also."

    2 Corinthians 5:1-4,8
    "For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life… we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."
"But what about Ecclesiastes 9:5?"

  • "For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten."

    The context of this verse is "under the sun." It is saying that the dead do not know anything that is going on "under the sun" vss.3,6 -- that is, on earth after they die and are in heaven (Eccl.12:7).

The Scriptures we've read clearly teach that the soul and the spirit are more than breath. A person's soul and spirit are separated from their body when they die. The soul is conscious in heaven after death awaiting the resurrection of the body.

Jesus' promise to Martha in John 11:25-26 is also very clear:

  • "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?'"

    A literal translation of the Greek text clarifies even more: "I am the resurrection and the life; the one believing in me even if he should die will live [or 'continue to go on living' --future active indicative tense, which speaks of continuous action], even if dies [the tense here, (2nd aorist subjunctive, 3rd class conditional), denotes the possibility of dying in a point of time, but it concedes something: it concedes that even if he dies, he will continue to go on living]."

    Clearly, Jesus is saying, "The one who believes in Me will continue to go on living even if he dies at a particular point of time." In other words, there is never a break in the life of a believer. A believer's life continues without any interruption by death.

    The text continues in verse 26: "And everyone living and believing in me shall never, by no means (extremely emphatic in the Greek) dies unto the age…" (The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English, Zondervan, 1975, p. 307). Eternal life does not stop and start. It is a life of such a quality that it never dies!
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The following text has been provided in support of the notion that the soul and the spirit are separated from the body at death:

Luke 8:54,55
"He, however, took her by the hand and called, saying, 'Child, arise!' And her spirit returned, and she rose immediately; and He gave orders for something to be given her to eat."

I believe that the Scriptures do not teach this divisibility of the human person - instead I believe that the scriptures teach that man is a wholistic being, indivisble into the traditional three components - body, spirit, and soul.

While I will not attempt to defend such a view in this post, I would refer interested readers to any of a number of threads where this matter has been debated at length.

For the present, I will point out that the above text is indeed consistent with this wholistic view of man.

Consider the Luke text. If one considers that the word spirit is intended to reflect a phenomenological aspect of a unitary human person, the text works perfectly well. The child has died, and when she is resurrected that phenomenological aspect returns. There is no need to interpret this verse as suggestive of an actual immaterial entity called "the spirit".
 
Drew said:
I believe that the Scriptures do not teach this divisibility of the human person - instead I believe that the scriptures teach that man is a wholistic being, indivisble into the traditional three components - body, spirit, and soul.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
 
Drew, John here:

I was under the impression that some long posts when they belong to another, are to be 'short' ones & with their signature. (which has been done) So maybe this 'short post' :wink: is our example for length??

So, why not just go to your 'Bible' source and copy and paste what you see as Truth per thread topic? And just skip the E-mail address?

One often wonders how some folk believe the devil's first 'earthly' lie 'that ye shall not [surely] die' Genesis 3:3-4 :roll:

Is it any wonder how befuddled the ones still are at the tower of Babbling with Peters Acts 10:9-20 vision? Whatever? :(
 
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