Should Christians drink wine?

[follower of Christ]

Hi Follower of Christ

As time allows I shall give answer. At present let me say that the Koine Greek has but one word for wine whether it be fermented or fresh. Oinos.

God bless,
duval

You really dont have to take the time, duval
Ive studied the matter out extensively and the facts and scripture simply do not present the idea that the Jews had refrigeration to keep grape juice from fermenting.
Again, thats a LOT of grape crops in perpetual growth and production to keep everyone in constant supply of UNfermented grape juice, dont you think ? ;)

Ive seen the 'evidence' for those who make the grape juice claims as Ive already explained, and it simply does not line up with the scriptures or the facts

 

[Hugo]

As time allows I shall give answer. At present let me say that the Koine Greek has but one word for wine whether it be fermented or fresh. Oinos.

Been there--done that, brother! (I think I have the t-shirt around here somewhere...)

Just had a glass of good South African wine with my neighbor..... with a mature Brie on a slice of homemade sourdough bread. A fire is burning in my woodburning stove and my oxtail soup is warming up; and all is as it should be

Now here's a guy that knows how to enjoy the Father's abundance.

 

[Caroline H]

Just had a glass of good South African wine with my neighbor..... with a mature Brie on a slice of homemade sourdough bread. A fire is burning in my woodburning stove and my oxtail soup is warming up; and all is as it should be

Now here's a guy that knows how to enjoy the Father's abundance.

Amen to that!

 

[mechanicdb]

I, for one, believe that wine making probably hasn't changed very much over the centuries. The Bible tells us that Jesus turned water into wine and that he drank wine. I don't believe that's open to interpretation on whether or not there was alcohol, but it was definite that wine in those days had the same effect as it does today because the bible also warns us not to drink 'to be drunk' 'wherein is excess'.

 

[Guest]

I think there are some excellent points here - there is simply NO WAY that the oinos being referred to is grape juice. I mean - what is the point???

I did not see the Prov 30 text used nor the text I believe somewhere in Deut 14:20, 21 or so (I would have to look it up) in which not only is wine to be used but hard liquor as well.

Personally, I prefer an 18y Highland Park scotch...

Best,
Anth

 

[duval]

Hi Follower of Christ

As you wish.

God bless,
duval

 

[Paidion]

I am surprised that no abstainer has yet quoted the abstainers' favorite verse:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. AV

 

[Fembot]

Myself I believe that it is the symbolism that Jesus is presenting, so I dont think that it matters if the wine is fermented or not.

If it's the symbolism that matters, then let's look at that symbolism.

Jesus said, "How is it that you fail to perceive that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Matthew 16:11
Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Matthew 16:12

Leaven (yeast) was symbolic of evil --- in this case the evil teaching of the Pharisees.

... you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us, therefore, celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (I Corinthians 5:5-8)

Having a man as part of a Christian assembly who is copulating with his step-mother, puts a blemish upon the assembly. It may "leaven the whole lump" ---- make the entire assembly evil.

The feast was to be celebrated with unleavened bread (bread without yeast)

The bread and wine of communion symbolize the body and blood of Christ. Christ was completely without sin throughout his earthly journey. That which symbolizes Him should be completely without leaven (yeast), the symbol of evil. So unleavened bread should be used at communion.

Grape juice contains yeast cells. Wine does not. Although wine is made with a certain type of yeast which ferments grape juice, after the fermentation has been completed, the alchohol in the wine kills the yeast and then the yeast and other impurities sink to the bottom of the container. The pure wine is taken off; it contains no yeast cells. For this reason, fermented wine should be used at communion.

Just wanted to say thanks for this post Not that I didn't learn a bit of what you mentioned in the past.

 

[Fembot]

Just had a glass of good South African wine with my neighbor..... with a mature Brie on a slice of homemade sourdough bread. A fire is burning in my woodburning stove and my oxtail soup is warming up; and all is as it should be

mmm mmm good!

My mother makes a wonderful oxtail stew! :yes

 

[Fembot]

I am surprised that no abstainer has yet quoted the abstainers' favorite verse:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. AV

But Paidion, this quote doesn't say to abstain. It's simply stating we shouldn't consume a large amount.

 

[Guest]

agreed foc. So many for so long have contended that the wine that Christ drank was some form of 'grape juice' with NO alcohol. The ONLY reason that this is DONE is for their OWN weakness over alcohol.

Please stop mischaracterizing people. Though I believe your statement is made out of ignorance, it is wrong to falsely accuse an entire group of people who adhere to a perspective you disagree with.

If we, as Christians, have the truth, then we do not need to spread falsities -- consciously or not -- to defend our perspectives.

 

[mechanicdb]

agreed foc. So many for so long have contended that the wine that Christ drank was some form of 'grape juice' with NO alcohol. The ONLY reason that this is DONE is for their OWN weakness over alcohol.

Please stop mischaracterizing people. Though I believe your statement is made out of ignorance, it is wrong to falsely accuse an entire group of people who adhere to a perspective you disagree with.

If we, as Christians, have the truth, then we do not need to spread falsities -- consciously or not -- to defend our perspectives.

lol, sorry if I come off as rude but i'm not trying to be, but that's like the old saying 'my mind is made up, don't confuse it with facts'

there is a difference between facts, opinions, and beliefs. please don't confuse them.

 

[Guest]

lol, sorry if I come off as rude but i'm not trying to be, but that's like the old saying 'my mind is made up, don't confuse it with facts'

there is a difference between facts, opinions, and beliefs. please don't confuse them.

The connection between your post and my own is not clear. Please clarify.

 

[mondar]

Should Christians drink wine?

Only if they can't shoot whiskey!




Just kidding... I am a teetotaler too.

 

[mechanicdb]

lol, sorry if I come off as rude but i'm not trying to be, but that's like the old saying 'my mind is made up, don't confuse it with facts'

there is a difference between facts, opinions, and beliefs. please don't confuse them.

The connection between your post and my own is not clear. Please clarify.

you say 'IF we, as christians, have the truth" ...do you know for fact that the wine Jesus drank was alcoholic or not? You (or we as christians) take it on faith as what you believe. So, if it's not a discernable fact, it is either an opinion or belief.

 

[Guest]

you say 'IF we, as christians, have the truth" ...do you know for fact that the wine Jesus drank was alcoholic or not? You (or we as christians) take it on faith as what you believe. So, if it's not a discernable fact, it is either an opinion or belief.

It seems my post was misunderstood. I was not giving my opinion (or claiming truth) on the matter at hand. I was specifically addressing a debate tactic being used. And the summary statement, which you partially quote, was arguing for the need of Christians to present their perspectives (i.e., "truth" or what they believe to be truth) and support for them with integrity.

Granted, I understand why my statement might have been misunderstood. It was penned in such a way to engage a particular audience.

 

[follower of Christ]

Granted, I understand why my statement might have been misunderstood. It was penned in such a way to engage a particular audience.

Wasnt it 'keyed' and not penned ;)

Sorry, had to do it ;)

 

[mechanicdb]

which you partially quote,

I don't need to quote the whole thing. If you have an engine that won't start, you don't look at a tire losing air. (it's a metaphor, think about it)

anyway, you talk about falsities. What makes something proven false? answer, facts. there is a difference between facts and opinions and beliefs. A belief was stated and you called someone ignorant based on your own opinion. Is that right to do?

 

[Paidion]

I am surprised that no abstainer has yet quoted the abstainers' favorite verse:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. AV

But Paidion, this quote doesn't say to abstain. It's simply stating we shouldn't consume a large amount.

Regardless of what it says, I am still surprised that no one has quoted it.

Abstainers usually quote this verse whenever the issue comes up. To them "Wine is a mocker" --- period. So avoid it completely. To them "Strong drink is raging" --- period. Always avoid something that is raging. To them, "He who is deceived thereby is not wise" indicates that wine and strong drink are invariable deceivers, and so wise people will avoid them altogether.

 

[Guest]

I don't need to quote the whole thing. If you have an engine that won't start, you don't look at a tire losing air. (it's a metaphor, think about it)

I was making a note, not criticizing you for partially quoting it.

[quote="mechanicdb]anyway, you talk about falsities. What makes something proven false? answer, facts. there is a difference between facts and opinions and beliefs. A belief was stated and you called someone ignorant based on your own opinion. Is that right to do?[/quote]
What was the belief stated by Imagican which I am criticizing? Well, I was criticizing Imagican's belief that all people who believe Jesus' wine had no alcohol are alcoholics. And why did I call him ignorant? Because it's absurdly clear that is not true, and I have met some people who believe Jesus' win had no alcohol and they have never had alcohol in their lives. Thus, I was wholly justified in my criticism and my labeling of him as ignorant.