Should Christians drink wine?

[lovely]

I don't drink because I do not want to be a stumbling block to some around me, but I do not think that taking wine is sinful at all. I agree with everyone that it's only we get drunk that it's a sin.

I would also like to point out something about the fermentation. We know now that foods that have been fermented for storage are good for your digestion. Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach, and so this would have been fermented wine not grape juice.

Paidion makes a good point about the yeast, and FOC touched on the point that all those grapes would have needed storage...fermentation is the only way to process the crop safely.

 

[Paidion]

I don't drink because I do not want to be a stumbling block to some around me...

I respect that. I assume your stance is based on the following words of Paul:

It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. Romans 14:21

So do you make it a principle never to drink wine for this reason? Or do you refrain only when abstainers are present? What about the "eating meat" part? Do you abstain from eating meat as a general principle? Or only when vegetarians are present?

Also, I was wondering how you practically apply the following passage (from I Corinthians 10:27-29).

If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. (But if some one says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then out of consideration for the man who informed you, and for conscience’ sake I mean his conscience, not yoursâ€â€do not eat it.) For why should my liberty be determined by another man’s scruples? RSV

 

[lovely]

Paidion,

I don't drink it anymore because I married someone who once struggled a great deal with drugs and alcohol. He is around it at times, but he never drinks it, and I don't want to cause him to desire it again, and so I never drink it now for his sake. I have never had some one 'set it before me' so to speak, but I do decline when asked. The unbelievers that we eat with are usually family, except our neighbor, and they never have offered it to us. Many believers offer it to us, though, but I decline because of Michael...who actually doesn't consider drinking itself a sin. Anyway, I think if I were not married to Michael, I would only abstain only if I knew there was a person present who stuggles.

As far as meat, we share meals often with a muslim family, but we decline the meat. They don't offer it anymore now. However, when I had my daughter, the husband brought me meat from the store that wasn't halal and fixed it with some of their Kabob seasoning...it was very good. I don't buy halal meat for them, we usually have fish or a veggie pizza or something. When the children are visiting, they are allowed to eat anything but pork. When I lived in Colorado, we had some close friends who were vegetarians because they felt that God's word teaches we should be, and so we always had bean burritos and PB and J's when out with them, or a veggie dish if they came over. I did serve chicken once when they came for a party, along with some vegetarian dishes, but it didn't dawn on me until later that evening that it may have been hard for them...I apologized later, but she said she didn't have any temptation.

I can't say for sure that this is the best way to do things, but it accurately describes my situation. To be honest, it has always seemed like a confusing thing to think about, but I think God has helped us. The Lord bless you.

 

[Fembot]

I am surprised that no abstainer has yet quoted the abstainers' favorite verse:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. AV

But Paidion, this quote doesn't say to abstain. It's simply stating we shouldn't consume a large amount.

Regardless of what it says, I am still surprised that no one has quoted it.

Abstainers usually quote this verse whenever the issue comes up. To them "Wine is a mocker" --- period. So avoid it completely. To them "Strong drink is raging" --- period. Always avoid something that is raging. To them, "He who is deceived thereby is not wise" indicates that wine and strong drink are invariable deceivers, and so wise people will avoid them altogether.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

hmmm. I'm sad to say I was not taught nor do I perceive the same message you state. It means that to let strong/heavy drinking overtake your sound knowledge is unwise. To me it means that alcohol can cause you to make bad decisions (easily deceived) if you don't limit the amount (slight as opposed to strong). I don't see a message to abstain. Only to be careful. But to each his own, my friend.

 

[Cornelius]

I praise God, because I use to have a problem with drinking,but the Lord really delivered me in such a way, that I lost my taste for it. He SO delivered me, that I can drink some wine with a meal like anybody else, without it becoming a problem again.

He delivered me about five years ago, and since then I can testify that when God sets you free, you are free indeed. God does not believe in "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" He delivers. :P

 

[follower of Christ]

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

hmmm. I'm sad to say I was not taught nor do I perceive the same message you state. It means that to let strong/heavy drinking overtake your sound knowledge is unwise. To me it means that alcohol can cause you to make bad decisions (easily deceived) if you don't limit the amount (slight as opposed to strong). I don't see a message to abstain. Only to be careful. But to each his own, my friend.

There are many who use that verse and others like it to condemn even touching wine.
As you say, it very clearly does not prohibit drinking wine, but just shows what can happen if we use it in excess.
But there are some folks who take passages like this to extremes.

heck, I know of one little church who took this one way too far ;

Likewise also that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and discretion, not with braids or gold or pearls or expensive clothing, but which is fitting for women professing godliness, by means of good works.
(1Ti 2:9-10 EMTV)

Just a simple little passage teaching women to not go nuts with what they wear...should be easy enough to discern the intent, one would think.
But this old guy I know read it one day and for some reason decided that after decades of marriage that the word 'gold' mean that no one could now wear wedding rings of any sort (even non gold ones, btw).
He apparently tried to push this on his church (he was the pastor at the time) and somehow convinced half the church that he was right. The other half refused to buy into the silliness and so what happened was the church split up. The half that now didnt believe in wearing wedding rings or ANY jewelry at all left the church and went about 60 miles south and I believe finally scattered to the four winds.

It seems like almost every weird doctrine out there is created by some verse in the bible being twisted beyond recognition.

 

[Fembot]

But there are some folks who take passages like this to extremes.

That is a perfect example of how some people can stop us from growing and cause us to fight amongst each other. I would have definitely been on the side that didn't let him change what the Bible's message meant to me.

Likewise also that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and discretion, not with braids or gold or pearls or expensive clothing, but which is fitting for women professing godliness, by means of good works.
(1Ti 2:9-10 EMTV)
Just a simple little passage teaching women to not go nuts with what they wear...should be easy enough to discern the intent, one would think.

Discretion doesn't mean to get rid of your braids, pearls or gold completely, but to be MODEST. As in not overdoing it and flaunting it.
Oh well, I'm not perfect, I may get a message wrong sometimes. But not something this simple and obvious.

 

[Dave Slayer]

 

[zer0das]

I don't think that drinking alcohol is in itself is wrong. That being said, I don't think I could ever do it in good conscious. The context in which I am usually given the opportunity to drink is in the midst of nonbelievers, a lot of whom handle drinking very irresponsibly. If I mess up once in this regard, I think it does a lot to kill any potential witness I may have with them, not to mention it sets a terrible example. One might say "Just do it in moderation," but honestly when there are perhaps a dozen people who would goad you on, how is that realistic? I don't want them to use my actions to justify theirs.

The social setting in which drinking occurs in the US typically encourages people to go overboard, and I think participating in that is rarely going to be fruitful.

As for a comment that if the alcohol in the Bible was dilute, who cares because it is the amount you drink that matters (I don't remember who said this): yes, this may be true in one respect. However, when the wine you drink may be 2-3 times more concentrated than what they were drinking, you're going to get drunk that much faster.

 

[Paidion]

Cornelius, your testimony reminds me of that of a friend, a former pupil of mine. As a young man, he had an alcohol problem, and he attended A.A. Each of the participants were required to state, "My name is ______. I am an alcoholic." My friend Wilbur Dillon (not his real name) always uttered this declaration too, of course. One day, the Lord delivered Wilbur from alcoholism. After his deliverance, he was able to take a drink or two without desiring any more. He continued to attend A.A. meetings, but became convicted when he realized he was lying when he said, "My name is Wilbur Dillon. I am an alcoholic." So one day, at the A.A. meeting, he decided to come clean. He knew he'd get kicked out, but he had to tell the truth. He said, "My name is Wilbur Dillon. I am no longer an alcoholic. I have been delivered from alcoholism by the power of Christ." Sure enough, he was kicked out. But he told the truth, and never again had a problem with alcohol.

 

[Fembot]

Thanks for sharing that Paidon! So, only alcoholics are allowed in those meetings, I take it, because they're taking up someone else's spot? I bet him mentioning that his cure was due to Christ is what gave him the determination to not stumble in that way again. Sometimes we have to confess to others-even the positive-knowing that we are praising the Lord and keeping His law.