Should Christians take medicine ?

[Cornelius]

I hate having to waste my days correcting godless error, thats for sure.
Its a thankless, mindnumbing job but apparently someone has to do it.

So having faith is godless ? Who's gospel are you preaching ?

 

[follower of Christ]

Drugs also destroy lives and make life miserable for others. Also that's a very poor guess that you have made there.

Illegal drugs, of course.
And why are you even arguing against drugs if you take them yourself ?

Yes fellow, they are.

Im afraid not.

FDA= Fast Death Administration.

Wow....no really.....wow.....thats really cool how you came up with that

They don't do testing for squat. They get the results they are looking for trust me.

Not as far as I could throw my chevy...

Actually I took a close look at the whole industry and I didn't even have to lean in for too close of a look before I could smell what a dung heap it actually is. It's touched my life. I know what's going on with it and it's not good.

Some good, some bad.
The drugs help real people and that is enough.

Ibuprofen is only at the tip of the iceberg.

yes...its a conspiracy to control us by giving us all headaches so they can sell us a billion in ibuprofen a year

 

[ronniechoate34]

The love for money is the root of ALL evil.

Huh....imagine that.
So....uh....when a man doesnt rob a woman but only rapes her...somehow YOU claim that money is the 'root' of that evil as well ?

The actual intent is that money is the root of all KINDS of evil....it isnt the cause of EVERY evil, friend.
Learn some context.

What about the smut purveyors who helped to give this man a mind to rape and commit evil? I guess they did it for free huh?

 

[follower of Christ]

So having faith is godless ? Who's gospel are you preaching ?

I see youre as good at perverting MY intent as you are the scriptures ;)

You havent actually moved any REAL mountains, C, so please understand that we'll have to just accept that Jesus' words may not actually be what you seem to believe they are in some places.

.

 

[follower of Christ]

What about the smut purveyors who helped to give this man a mind to rape and commit evil? I guess they did it for free huh?

So youre one of those who claim that a man isnt evil unless his environment makes him that way ?
As if he cant CHOOSE to do the right thing if porn was involved ?

Please.
Men have been raping women LONG before porn ever was an issue, friend.
I hope you have better than this.

Money is the root of all kinds of evil....it ISNT the root of EVERY evil.
You have simply misunderstood Christs intent.

.

 

[Cornelius]

Many mountains have moved in my life through faith.

OH brother.
So where are these mountains youve uprooted from the ground and cast into the sea, C ?
In any countries we've actually heard of ?

Now, if youre talking metaphorical 'mountains' only, then youre in no position to judge MY walk, now are you chap, seeing that you have NO clue what 'mountains' my faith may or may not have moved ;)

Brother, faith is not for entertainment. God opened a sea for His people. Now this is the SAME God that I worship. The One who is the same yesterday, today and forever. So THIS God, when the day comes that I have to move a REAL mountain, will indeed move a real mountain. Why? Because He said so! He also said nothing shall be impossible for us .......who believe. Notice the condition !

Mat 17:20 And he saith unto them, Because of your little faith: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

You can bring all your human views about why you do not want to have faith in the Word, and I will still tell you : I believe it because God said it.

 

[Cornelius]

The reason I do not believe you, is because I have been living in the miraculous, because I believe the Word. I do not need "signs and wonders" to believe. I believed BEFORE I saw them In fact, we have to first believe before we see them. No faith = no miracle. Faith gets tested and that does not happen when you SEE first. No , you have to stay in faith and believe God no matter what. THEN He comes with the manifestation of the miracle.

 

[follower of Christ]

Brother, faith is not for entertainment. God opened a sea for His people.

Thats all nice and well, C.....have any seas opened for you lately ?
If not then why not ?
No faith ?

Now this is the SAME God that I worship. The One who is the same yesterday, today and forever. So THIS God, when the day comes that I have to move a REAL mountain, will indeed move a real mountain. Why? Because He said so! He also said nothing shall be impossible for us .......who believe. Notice the condition !

Youve already given your hand away, C, that you DONT actually believe that these 'mountains' Jesus spoke of are literally meant.
Shall I quote your previous post where you show something other than literal mountains in your own life ?

God CAN do anything...that doesnt mean He's a vending machine whos going to pop out a soda just because you toss a dollar in.

You can bring all your human views about why you do not want to have faith in the Word, and I will still tell you : I believe it because God said it.

And we simply believe because God IS.
WE dont require any proof as you seem to.

Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
(John 20:29 EMTV)

 

[follower of Christ]

The reason I do not believe you,

You arent required to believe me, friend.

is because I have been living in the miraculous,

Ive seen REAL miracles, C....ones that REALLY matter.
I'll take these that deal with the soul, miracles that have ETERNAL blessing, rather than some meaningless mountain of rock being moved.
I dont need new legs, and I certainly dont need to cured of my genetic disease....and I'll gladly live with it to have seen the REAL miracles that I have seen....any day of the week.

because I believe the Word.

As we do...

No faith = no miracle.

No miracle = it was not in Gods will.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Illegal drugs, of course.

Yes, drugs as illegal as Vioxx. That stuff has my aunt near death. It ruined her heart, caused her at least one major heart attack and her health is now gone and she is almost gone too. She is only in her fifties. Of course that's only the tale of the Vioxx. There are many many more horror stories out there.

And why are you even arguing against drugs if you take them yourself?

I am arguing against evil here. I rarely take anything.

Wow....no really.....wow.....thats really cool how you came up with that

I take it you have never looked into just how quickly the FDA puts it's seal of approval on something. I guess you'd have to actually look into it instead of just knocking my word for it to actually even know if that would be worth your time or not.

Some good, some bad.

Majorly evil and with a horrific agenda, and a very minute amount of good.

The drugs help real people and that is enough.

Real people? What are you talking about?

yes...its a conspiracy to control us by giving us all headaches so they can sell us a billion in ibuprofen a year

Maybe. You sure can't prove that it isn't.

 

[Cornelius]

Brother, faith is not for entertainment. God opened a sea for His people.

Thats all nice and well, C.....have any seas opened for you lately ?
If not then why not ?
No faith ?

Actually I have plenty of faith for it but I also know that God is not a toy (or a vending machine like you say) He makes a way when we are in need of a way.


You should read "Like a Mighty Wind" (I met the author and all in there is real ) Walking on water, water into wine, and MANY more miracles that God performed in this modern day in a people who believed Him. I really pray that the Lord will show you His power that is available to you too.

love in Christ
C

 

[ronniechoate34]

So youre one of those who claim that a man isnt evil unless his environment makes him that way ?
As if he cant CHOOSE to do the right thing if porn was involved ?

Actually, you make me feel sick with your lack of understanding.

Please.
Men have been raping women LONG before porn ever was an issue, friend.
I hope you have better than this.

I hope that one day you given the gift of discernment and are actually able to understand just how big of an impact seemingly trivial things actually have on us weak minded human beings.

Money is the root of all kinds of evil....it ISNT the root of EVERY evil.
You have simply misunderstood Christs intent.

Nope, there hasn't been any misunderstanding on my part.

 

[Cornelius]

Anyway brother, I will leave it at this. Faith is gift from the Lord and I cannot change anything in how you believe. That is up to our sovereign God. But I believe that He will do something for you to change this in you and also to set you free from your physical condition. I really pray for this.

C

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes, drugs as illegal as Vioxx. That stuff has my aunt near death. It ruined her heart, caused her at least one major heart attack and her health is now gone and she is almost gone too. She is only in her fifties. Of course that's only the tale of the Vioxx. There are many many more horror stories out there.

I see. So this is really about your personal life and what ONE drug has done to your aunt or someone else ?
Did I not just say that some drugs needed to be refined so that they give the desired benefit without the negative effect ?
Drugs dont just come from thin air, friend.
They have to be tested and refined. Sometimes they end up in the market before they should. It happens.
And sometimes it happens because someone is a crook.
Able died because his brother was a vile human being...it happens. I wish it didnt, but it does.
That DOESNT make the ENTIRE drug industry 'evil', Im afraid.
Any more than wine is inherently evil simply because its ruined my entire family tree and killed more than one of my family members.

I am arguing against evil here. I rarely take anything.

'Rarely' disqualifies your entire argument, Im afraid.
Now, if you want to argue that SOME evil happens where drugs are concerned, then Im in agreement.

I take it you have never looked into just how quickly the FDA puts it's seal of approval on something. I guess you'd have to actually look into it instead of just knocking my word for it to actually even know if that would be worth your time or not.

Im not interested in the least.
We cannot condemn a VERY helpful industry over the evils of a few.

Majorly evil and with a horrific agenda, and a very minute amount of good.

Oh please.
MOST drugs are hardly that big a problem.

Real people? What are you talking about?

uh....yeah
Who did you think was taking all these drugs ? Lab rats ?

Maybe. You sure can't prove that it isn't.

MODs.
we need to set up a forum for 'Conspiracies'.... ;)

.

 

[follower of Christ]

Anyway brother, I will leave it at this. Faith is gift from the Lord and I cannot change anything in how you believe.

No, you cant....not when I spend so much time in His word to know what the INTENT is.
I have absolute faith in Him. No signs required.

That is up to our sovereign God. But I believe that He will do something for you to change this in you and also to set you free from your physical condition. I really pray for this.

C

And this is where you are wrong.
My physical condition is here for a reason, friend. He has used it to bring me where I am and where I am going.

Tell us, why was Pauls thorn in his flesh not removed when he prayed for it to be ?
Did a man who had direct revelation from Christ NOT have faith in Him ?
Or did Pauls thorn have a purpose ? GODS purpose ?

It is not Gods will to heal EVERY ailment....otherwise none of us would ever die physcially.


.

 

[ronniechoate34]

I see. So this is really about your personal life and what ONE drug has done to your aunt or someone else ?
Did I not just say that some drugs needed to be refined so that they give the desired benefit without the negative effect ?

Didn't you see the news reports about how they knew that this would happen. They expected heart attacks and loss of life but they with held it from the public when they released the Vioxx. Liars. Oh and murderers just like the devil's children.

Drugs dont just come from thin air, friend.
They have to be tested and refined. Sometimes they end up in the market before they should. It happens.

It sure does. It happens because people want to push things along so that they can make some money.

And sometimes it happens because someone is a crook.
Able died because his brother was a vile human being...it happens. I wish it didnt, but it does.
That DOESNT make the ENTIRE drug industry 'evil', Im afraid.

Well in these latter times your are gonna find lots of evil men, many many evil minded men. Just read Jude. We live in perilous times because of the evil of men. I think we would be safe to include the drug industry in that.

Any more than wine is inherently evil simply because its ruined my entire family tree and killed more than one of my family members.

I think the scriptures warn us against excessive wine. I don't drink any. I am a tee-totaler.

Now, if you want to argue that SOME evil happens drugs are concerned, then Im in agreement.

I can't I have seen way too much to refer to it as "some evil". It's an over abundance of iniquity.

Im not interested in the least.
We cannot condemn a VERY helpful industry over the evils of a few.

It's actually not as helpful as you believe that it is. But then the devil wouldn't want you to wake up from that dream of yours. Would he?

Oh please.
MOST drugs are hardly that big a problem.

You have no idea.

uh....yeah
Who did you think was taking all these drugs ? Lab rats ?

I know people are I just don't know what constitutes real people in your mind or who it is you have deemed as not a real person.

we need to set up a forum for 'Conspiracies'.... ;)

.

Why?

 

[stovebolts]

The other night I had something like an anxiety attack while I was in bed. Normally this would have been really scary, because all of a sudden the rhythm of my heart changed and it started beating way over 160 beats a minute . I do not even have it so high in the gym. But I was in total peace, just thanking the Lord that He had already healed me from this at the cross, whatever this was. It carried on for a while, but I had this strange peace and detachment in me. Not once did I actually go into fear of anything bad. I think if I had added fear, it would have added to whatever was happening. Then it just went away and I slept.

Hi Cornelius,
Sorry for the delay in responding. Been busy lately.

Hey, I highlighted you words, "I think if I had added fear,..." because I think this has to do a Godly heart. Let me explain.

If you recall, every Jew knew the Shema in and out. For reference, I'd like to quote a portion of the Shema.

(Net Bible) Deut 6:5 You must love the Lord your God with your whole mind, your whole being, and all your strength.

I've been teaching my childrens class these verses and as we've been learning them, we've been learning to understand what it means to obey the above commandments and Rashi commentary has really given me some fantastic insight on this verse. Here's what Rashi says,
And you shall love [the Lord]: Perform His commandments out of love. The one who acts out of love cannot be compared to the one who acts out of fear. If one serves his master out of fear, when the master sets a great burden upon him, this servant will leave him and go away [whereas if out of love he will serve him even under great burden] (Sifrei 6:5).

I'd like to take a look at the first king of Israel, Saul. He believed in God and yes, he was even 'chosen' by God. However, he did not obey the commandment to Love the Lord with all his heart, mind and strength. He did not fill his heart with the love of God, but rather, his heart was filled with fear and terror, and his kingdom was taken away.

1 Samuel 28:5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly.

When we have a heart filled with the love of God, such as David, we're at peace with whatever the results.

God bless,
Jeff

 

[follower of Christ]

Didn't you see the news reports about how they knew that this would happen. They expected heart attacks and loss of life but they with held it from the public when they released the Vioxx. Liars. Oh and murderers just like the devil's children.

And so youre taking ONE item and damning an entire industry because of it.
My ibuprofen and my nephews insulin has NOTHING to do with any of this.

It sure does. It happens because people want to push things along so that they can make some money.

Agreed (finally).
and so because SOMETIMES this evil happens you just damn the whole thing ?
Sort of like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Well in these latter times your are gonna find lots of evil men, many many evil minded men. Just read Jude. We live in perilous times because of the evil of men. I think we would be safe to include the drug industry in that.

As I said, SOME evil happens. It always has and it always will.
We dont condemn everyone and everything because of the evil choices of the few.

I think the scriptures warn us against excessive wine. I don't drink any. I am a tee-totaler.

The key point being 'excessive'. ;)
Wine, in and of itself, is neither here nor there. Christ had His own disciples drink the wine at His supper. We can rest assured Jesus didnt have them pass around 'evil' in remembrance of Him.
Wine isnt evil...some men are.

I can't I have seen way too much to refer to it as "some evil". It's an over abundance of iniquity.

Then you need to stick to YOUR convictions and NEVER use medication of ANY kind again.
And then go hole up in a cave somewhere till judgment day to avoid evil entirely.

It's actually not as helpful as you believe that it is.
But then the devil wouldn't want you to wake up from that dream of yours. Would he?

Oh please...your lack of understanding is making me physically ill.
*I WOULD BE DEAD* if it werent for modern medicine being able to figure out my disease and knowing what drugs to give me to bring my body chemistry back under control.
Please use this illogical nonsense with someone like C above with whom it may work.

You have no idea.

Sure I do. Because a huge number of them that are generally beneficial to 99% of humanity will kill me because of my disease.
Im VERY aware of every drug around me and every household chemical as well. I have to be. Even cologne can put me into the ICU.

I know people are I just don't know what constitutes real people in your mind or who it is you have deemed as not a real person.

I think you lost track of the entire discussion posts ago, quite honestly.

Why?

Conspiracies, of course ;)

.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Didn't you see the news reports about how they knew that this would happen. They expected heart attacks and loss of life but they with held it from the public when they released the Vioxx. Liars. Oh and murderers just like the devil's children.

And so youre taking ONE item and damning an entire industry because of it.
My ibuprofen and my nephews insulin has NOTHING to do with any of this.

It sure does. It happens because people want to push things along so that they can make some money.

Agreed (finally).
and so because SOMETIMES this evil happens you just damn the whole thing ?
Sort of like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
[quote:27h3no35]Well in these latter times your are gonna find lots of evil men, many many evil minded men. Just read Jude. We live in perilous times because of the evil of men. I think we would be safe to include the drug industry in that.

As I said, SOME evil happens. It always has and it always will.
We dont condemn everyone and everything because of the evil choices of the few.

I think the scriptures warn us against excessive wine. I don't drink any. I am a tee-totaler.

The key point being 'excessive'. ;)
Wine, in and of itself, is neither here nor there. Christ had His own disciples drink the wine at His supper. We can rest assured Jesus didnt have them pass around 'evil' in remembrance of Him.
Wine isnt evil...some men are.

I can't I have seen way too much to refer to it as "some evil". It's an over abundance of iniquity.

Then you need to stick to YOUR convictions and NEVER use medication of ANY kind again.
And then go hole up in a cave somewhere till judgment day to avoid evil entirely.

It's actually not as helpful as you believe that it is.
But then the devil wouldn't want you to wake up from that dream of yours. Would he?

Oh please...your lack of understanding is making me physically ill.
*I WOULD BE DEAD* if it werent for modern medicine being able to figure out my disease and knowing what drugs to give me to bring my body chemistry back under control.
Please use this illogical nonsense with someone like C above with whom it may work.

You have no idea.

Sure I do. Because a huge number of them that are generally beneficial to 99% of humanity will kill me because of my disease.
Im VERY aware of every drug around me and every household chemical as well. I have to be. Even cologne can put me into the ICU.

I know people are I just don't know what constitutes real people in your mind or who it is you have deemed as not a real person.

I think you lost track of the entire discussion posts ago, quite honestly.

Why?

Conspiracies, of course ;)

.[/quote:27h3no35]


Let's just cease all communication right here. Agreed?

 

[kiwimac]

Let me see, God inspires human-beings to seek for cures to ailments. Some of those cures involve surgery, some psycho-analysis, others drugs. Why would Christians not honour the working of God's Spirit in the lives of humanity by using the cures that God has provided them?