Should He Get Out ?

[Willie T]

CE,
That's some very sound thinking. ALL of what you've posted.

 

[jasonc]

well...OK...psychiatric hospitals seem to do one of two things: let people out sooner than a prison would or 2) abuse people and keep them forever. The few data I've seen on it indicate that shrinks aren't that good at predicting relapse or violence. That said, the way the law works in NGRI, if you're treated and treatment can be continued in the community (they'd probably keep him on a long acting injectable by court order), then you're supposed to be released.

I dunno.

I know that, but doesn't make me feel safe. that is the concern. would you hire a person? let him near a child in your church? I would hesistate.

 

[KevinK]

I am sorry for your accident.That has to be very difficult.But if you put your life in God's hands it will be easier to bear.

Thank you, Kathi. I guess that's why I'm here.

 

[Christ_empowered]

OK..but...when do you stop the "lock 'em up and throw away the key" approach? When more people were hospitalized for criminal behavior, like in the 50s, crime rates were still pretty low. People committed crimes, they got whatever treatment--sometimes good, sometimes bad, often a mix--available, and then they were either released or kept. Social class issues come into play, as well as race and gender issues and sometimes even the issues of how a particular shrink feels about a particular patient. :-(

Fortunately, in a lot of states, they have rules. Like, you can't keep a person longer than a prison sentence would have run. That's a good one.

I'm just saying, as someone who's been rehabilitated, that whenever possible, we should focus on getting people rehabilitated and back into society. Ideally, prisons aren't for the severely mentally ill and mental hospitals aren't for the simply deviant, but of sound mind, but...we live in a fallen world/

 

[jasonc]

OK..but...when do you stop the "lock 'em up and throw away the key" approach? When more people were hospitalized for criminal behavior, like in the 50s, crime rates were still pretty low. People committed crimes, they got whatever treatment--sometimes good, sometimes bad, often a mix--available, and then they were either released or kept. Social class issues come into play, as well as race and gender issues and sometimes even the issues of how a particular shrink feels about a particular patient. :-(

Fortunately, in a lot of states, they have rules. Like, you can't keep a person longer than a prison sentence would have run. That's a good one.

I'm just saying, as someone who's been rehabilitated, that whenever possible, we should focus on getting people rehabilitated and back into society. Ideally, prisons aren't for the severely mentally ill and mental hospitals aren't for the simply deviant, but of sound mind, but...we live in a fallen world/

I understand that but this particular person killed his mother. if god said something about the murder of another it didn't include.. oh rehab them. it was put them to death. david murdered a man and didn't walk away without consequences. he paid heavily. two sons, and a baby and wives.

 

[Eugene]

Thank you, Kathi. I guess that's why I'm here.

God certainly knows the path we take and makes provision in our lives for His will for us. It's sure good to have you here brother.

 

[jasonc]

I add that any violent offender get own a gun. why is that? and also cant work around kids.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Jesus said forgive 70x7. Jesus said judge not lest ye yourselves be judged. For obvious reasons, I'm big on NT outlook.

 

[jasonc]

Jesus said forgive 70x7. Jesus said judge not lest ye yourselves be judged. For obvious reasons, I'm big on NT outlook.

so you would allow a child to be near a pedophile? a man that was rehabbed and a former hitler? see the problem. I have been around this a coworker of mine threatened while high on oxycotin our boss and fired his weapon on the ground while a rowdy neighbor was coming toward him. he went to see a shrink. he still works with the city. I worked with him for two or more years after that, I never felt he was a threat. he made really, really bad decision. could he kill? possibly but not likely. he did no time in jail or prison. I say that because I know him. yet because of laws a felon cant posses a firearm or be around kids. I have the background checks. I had to sign the affidivits to enter school grounds for work

 

[Christ_empowered]

Data based sentencing is a good idea. Pedophiles...by all means, forgive, but the recidivism rate is huge, so do something long term (I'm no expert, just please...do...something).

You keep talking about Hitler. This dude here was crazy as could be and killed a mother he most likely loved dearly. Sad. Madness happens, and it can be devastating.

 

[jasonc]

Data based sentencing is a good idea. Pedophiles...by all means, forgive, but the recidivism rate is huge, so do something long term (I'm no expert, just please...do...something).

You keep talking about Hitler. This dude here was crazy as could be and killed a mother he most likely loved dearly. Sad. Madness happens, and it can be devastating.

my coworker has clinical depression.i wish it was simple but I take it case by case. my coworker was sentence to aa treatment

 

[jasonc]

a kid here who had depression killed his parents with a hammer then got drunk and had a party with one of his parents still alive to hear the relvary, he didn't hide them. that is how he was found out.he was in treatement when he killed. he shouldn't be freed.

 

[Willie T]

CE,
As you've found out, there are irrational fears that will probably always keep us from really following Jesus. And I guess that's the way it will be till He comes back.

 

[jasonc]

CE,
As you've found out, there are irrational fears that will probably always keep us from really following Jesus. And I guess that's the way it will be till He comes back.

so we should break laws. your church should hire those that are convicted rapists, pedophiles and let them work near kids despite the law? that is the point im making. its illegal to have a kid near them in those settings. if commit a crime and not even convicted im not able to enter into schools. ie just charged. this included domestic violence. I have issues with that as sometimes the case has no merit.that doesn't mean that law has weak points but sometimes its better to be safe then sorry. if your church has child care and sunday school it has to have them teachers screened via a fingerprint and local and national background check.

 

[jasonc]

I also worked with a man , he killed his daughter rapist in an act of vengeance and did ten years. he was nice, he wasn't a violent man. yet he did by legal definition commit murder. he died by cancer 3 years ago. I knew him for over twenty years.

 

[follower]

Would subjecting those who justify his release to being guilty of future similar killings by him and serving prison time with him. The experts that make such judgments are paid to be right. We might soon find many less experts on human character with those rules thrown into the mix.

I wouldn't put any trust in someone whose goal in life, whose reward, is money.....
Psalm 146:3-5 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter
3-9 Don’t put your life in the hands of experts
who know nothing of life, of salvation life.
Mere humans don’t have what it takes;
when they die, their projects die with them.
Instead, get help from the God of Jacob,
put your hope in God and know real blessing!

 

[Willie T]

I wouldn't put any trust in someone whose goal in life, whose reward, is money.....
Psalm 146:3-5 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter
3-9 Don’t put your life in the hands of experts
who know nothing of life, of salvation life.
Mere humans don’t have what it takes;
when they die, their projects die with them.
Instead, get help from the God of Jacob,
put your hope in God and know real blessing!

One serious problem with this thinking.
Just the minute someone is released, the money the hospital and doctors have been making off of that person being there, stops.
So, how is it monetarily beneficial to the doctors to end that income by releasing the patient from their custody?

 

[follower]

that's the point. it is beneficial to NOT be in their custody - good for the patient. the problem is the phrmk, hospitals, clinics and doktrs all(almost all) want the money not to stop, so they will try to keep people undergoing unneeded and unhelpful xrays and test procedures and visits etc etc etc as long as the money will be paid for all the rigamarole.

 

[Deborah13]

so you would allow a child to be near a pedophile? a man that was rehabbed and a former hitler? see the problem. I have been around this a coworker of mine threatened while high on oxycotin our boss and fired his weapon on the ground while a rowdy neighbor was coming toward him. he went to see a shrink. he still works with the city. I worked with him for two or more years after that, I never felt he was a threat. he made really, really bad decision. could he kill? possibly but not likely. he did no time in jail or prison. I say that because I know him. yet because of laws a felon cant posses a firearm or be around kids. I have the background checks. I had to sign the affidivits to enter school grounds for work

Felons are not restricted from being around kids, even violate felons are not.
Employment issues and laws is a different animal.
Pedophiles are restricted from being around kids at all, unless in strict supervised visitations set up by the courts. Different states handle these things differently and even judges.

 

[Deborah13]

so we should break laws. your church should hire those that are convicted rapists, pedophiles and let them work near kids despite the law? that is the point im making. its illegal to have a kid near them in those settings. if commit a crime and not even convicted im not able to enter into schools. ie just charged. this included domestic violence. I have issues with that as sometimes the case has no merit.that doesn't mean that law has weak points but sometimes its better to be safe then sorry. if your church has child care and sunday school it has to have them teachers screened via a fingerprint and local and national background check.

In our state there is no laws about anyone the church hires including child care and Sunday school teachers.
Public schools systems and child care businesses do have to do background checks and finger printing.