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Should we be cremated?

It really doesn't bother me whethere I"m cremated or buried. After all, I'll be dead anyway. I don't believe the Bible talks explicidly for or against cremation or burial. Therefore it becomes a cultural / personal preference. If it costs less and takes up less space to be cremated then I'm likely to go that option. Plus don't you think it's creepy thinking of your skeleton in a coffin? :D
Whether one believes in a physical or spiritual resurrection, I don't believe the idea of cremation Vs burial is changed at all. God created the universe out of nothing, surely He can create you a physical body as well? By going down the line of arguement that it's better for the resurrection of one is buried is nonsense, as this denies God's absolute power, and it also ignores the fact that if Jesus takes more than a few hundred years (being generous here) to return then even the buried body would have decayed anyway, so that arguement is debunked after a while as well.
As for the arguement that burial symbolises you taking care of your physical body now which God gave you, I can see the logic in that, but I believe this comes down to personal preference, as there are no commands that I know of in the bible that clearly (or even subtly) advocate either cremation or burial.

But I'd say make a decision in your will before you die, otherwise you may have family and friends literally fighting over your body! :P (Quite seriously, it happens I'm sure).

Ultimately, I'm not so worried about which way my body is disposed of. I'm more concerned aboutliving as a disiple of God here and now to prepare myself and others for Judgement day. I'd be more concerned also about how my funeral is done. I want it to be filled of Hope, and as a 'sendoff' that I'm going back home. I'll concentrate on how I serve God and my brothers and sisters now, and leave the miricles that God can and will perform to God. :)
 
my wife's aunt was left in the morgue when she died as her children who she mistreated thought nothing of here. she was buried by her sister. so its good to make plans.
 
Caroline H said:
I think it's a personal issue that should not ever become a legalistic one, saying that no one should be cremated because of a message it sends or that no one should be buried.

I do not find this convincing. It is deeply important what "stories we tell the world". Its not just about "us" and our interests, we are called to tell the story of what God is doing to the entire world.

You have not engaged my argument - the point is that cremation sends a subtle but clear message - God is "finished" with the body once you are dead. This is not biblically correct - the redeemed will be resurrected physically - just like Jesus was. Obviously, buried bodies decay, and obviously God can resurrect us without "the original parts". But to incinerate the body is to implicitly deny that God values our physicality.

Caroline H said:
The bible gives no commands on this issue,...
This seems like an oversimplication - that the way we determine the right course of action is to "look for a rule in the Bible". The Bible does not contain an exhaustive list of rules. I am suggesting that, in the case of the cremation issue, we should think about how our choices influence the implicit story that we are telling about God.
 
Nick said:
It really doesn't bother me whethere I"m cremated or buried. After all, I'll be dead anyway. I don't believe the Bible talks explicidly for or against cremation or burial.
Do you not agree that your choice in respect to cremation is not "just about you"? The act sends a message to the rest of the world. And that is something we should be concerned about.

And, again, the lack of some explicit Biblical "command" on the matter is harldly a good argument. Many of the important choices we make cannot be solved simply by looking for explicit direction from the Bible.
 
Drew said:
Nick said:
It really doesn't bother me whethere I"m cremated or buried. After all, I'll be dead anyway. I don't believe the Bible talks explicidly for or against cremation or burial.
Do you not agree that your choice in respect to cremation is not "just about you"? The act sends a message to the rest of the world. And that is something we should be concerned about.

And, again, the lack of some explicit Biblical "command" on the matter is harldly a good argument. Many of the important choices we make cannot be solved simply by looking for explicit direction from the Bible.


The clear message it sends to the rest of the world is that we will wast valuable resources, and land to perpetuate a silly superstition. When we die our body decays and returns to dust. The embalming process slows that, but doesn't stop it. What of the people that died a thousand years ago or longer? Their bodies are mostly totally decayed.

Cremation is fine.

This line thinking that we will need our bodies is bogus, and lacks logic, and is one of the reasons there isn't more organ donation. People who wont donate because they are afraid they will need their organs in heaven. They are too illogical to realize that their organs are removed and destroyed when they are embalmed. This issue is mostly one where people just don't use their brain.
 
Nick said:
By going down the line of arguement that it's better for the resurrection of one is buried is nonsense, as this denies God's absolute power, and it also ignores the fact that if Jesus takes more than a few hundred years (being generous here) to return then even the buried body would have decayed anyway, so that arguement is debunked after a while as well.
No on both counts. This "denial of God's power" argument is like the argument that "living a life of great sin before conversion only magnifies God's power when the person is, in fact, converted". We tell a story when we get cremated - that the true essence of who are lies in something other than our physicality, so its Ok to incinerate it. Of course, God can resurrect us physically if we are cremated, but we send the wrong story to the rest of the world if we get cremated. I do not think this is a really important issue, but we should take every chance possible to send the world the message that God is very much in the business of physically healing and restoring the world. When we get cremated, we are, symbolically at least, working at cross purposes to that.

I have already addressed the "decay" argument. God does not need the "original cells" to restore you phyically. In fact, even as you live, every 7 years or so, all your cells are being replaced. And yet you remain "you".
 
Drew said:
I have already addressed the "decay" argument. God does not need the "original cells" to restore you phyically.

So if God doesn't require your body what's the point of artificially preserving it? It there one besides symbolism?
 
happyjoy said:
The clear message it sends to the rest of the world is that we will wast valuable resources, and land to perpetuate a silly superstition.
Question begging and argumentative. Do you think that declaraiton that I cling to "silly superstition" somehow invalidates the content of my arguments? I have already conceded that, if "space" is really limited, cremation is a perfectly acceptable option for the Christian.

happyjoy said:
When we die our body decays and returns to dust. The embalming process slows that, but doesn't stop it. What of the people that died a thousand years ago or longer? Their bodies are mostly totally decayed.
I have repeatedly pointed out that this is not the point. The point is the statement that cremation makes to the world about God and what He is up to in the world.

happyjoy said:
This line thinking that we will need our bodies is bogus, and lacks logic, and is one of the reasons there isn't more organ donation. People who wont donate because they are afraid they will need their organs in heaven. They are too illogical to realize that their organs are removed and destroyed when they are embalmed. This issue is mostly one where people just don't use their brain.
Your insults are entirely innapropriate since you simply have not engaged my argument. You are taking the road that some others take here - thinking that non-argument and rhetorical dismissal is an acceptable way to "refute" the coherent arguments of others. Now please stop with the contentless insults.

Of course organ donation is honourable. You accuse me of not thinking. I suggest that it may be you who is not thinking here. When you donate an organ, you are clearly doing something good. Fine, I am all for that. But then when you cremate the rest of the body, you are telling an implicit story that works against the Biblical story of a physical resurrection. These are separate issues. Yes, we should donate organs. But there is the further question of what we do with the “parts†that we do not donate.
 
happyjoy said:
Drew said:
I have already addressed the "decay" argument. God does not need the "original cells" to restore you phyically.

So if God doesn't require your body what's the point of artificially preserving it? It there one besides symbolism?
No there is no point beyond the symbolic value. But the symbolic value is important. It indeed does matter what "stories we Christians tell the world" through the life choices we make.

For example, when Christians choose the path of obesity, they are also denying the Biblical truth that God is deeply interested in restoring His creation physically. The damage is "only symbolic" - the final salvation of the obese Christian is not at risk (I don't think). But being obese does not send the right message about the relation of God to the physicality of His creatures.
 
On a "conciliatory" note: While I do think that cremation sends the wrong message for a Christian, I fully understand that there may be both "practical" and "personal" reasons for cremation. I understand that, in some places in the world, there may not be enough "space". I also understand that some people have dificultly with the thought of decomposing in a box. That does not particularly bother me, but I can understand how it might deeply trouble others.

So I do not want to appear to be saying that one is committing some awful sin if you are cremated - that is not my intent at all.

I just think it sends a less than ideal message to the rest of the world. But other considerations may "trump" this and I fully respect that - many of my relatives have been cremated.
 
Drew said:
On a "conciliatory" note: While I do think that cremation sends the wrong message for a Christian, I fully understand that there may be both "practical" and "personal" reasons for cremation. I understand that, in some places in the world, there may not be enough "space". I also understand that some people have dificultly with the thought of decomposing in a box. That does not particularly bother me, but I can understand how it might deeply trouble others.

So I do not want to appear to be saying that one is committing some awful sin if you are cremated - that is not my intent at all.

I just think it sends a less than ideal message to the rest of the world. But other considerations may "trump" this and I fully respect that - many of my relatives have been cremated.

I understand what you are saying, and I do respect that. :yes But I do think that while you feel that it sends the wrong message to the world, others may not agree. Personally, I don't see it that way at all. Happyjoy did raise a point that I have pondered before... wouldn't it be better for us to not waste soooo muuuuch money on embalming and burials in coffins that cost as much as a car? In my opinion that sends a bad message to the world, because people are dying and starving and in need of help and here we are burying 1000's of $$'s with our loved one. :shrug
 
GojuBrian said:
I would have a hard time cremating someone. I firmly believe we should be buried.

Any scripture or thoughts on this?




Sorry but I don't have any scriptures. Some scriptures do come to mind concerning unburied dead, but that doesn't clear this up.


I think that burning the dead is a pagan practice. It has also been practiced to help conserve space in cemeteries and mausoleums. Sometimes people die unexpectedly and it's the cheapest disposal available to the survivors. :twocents


I read an article a couple of years ago about a new method that was really strange to me. Liquifying the dead, and then just washing them away.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24526431/?GT1=43001
 
How is this for ya.

According to a firm engaged in the marketing of a device to stop the leakage of bodily fluids from caskets, the adult human body contains approximately 10 to 25 gallons or more of liquids, depending on the body size. This liquid ultimately consists of water, locked inside the body's various soft tissues (muscles, organs, and fat). It is said that perhaps 75% of our body weight is actually just water.

Upon the death of an individual, there is virtually zero change in the amount of water locked into the body's tissues, whether the dead body is embalmed or not.

All bodies, living or dead, contain certain aerobic bacteria, anaerobic bacteria, and enzymes. These begin to break down and digest the tissues of the remains immediately upon death.

Depending on certain circumstances related to the cause and type of death, degree of embalming, and the ambient temperature, these enzymes and bacterial agents may cause an embalmed corpse to enter a putrifying, so-called "liquifaction" stage during the decomposition process, usually between one and three months after death. An unembalmed body may begin to liquify within a week or so, after it's entombment or interral.

When a corpse enters this liquifaction stage, the organs within the thorax, abdomen and skull will turn into viscous, foul- smelling liquid "goo". The water locked in muscle and fat tissue will also be released. Any embalming fluid in the body's veins and arteries will also leak out. When this happens, these liquids will be released into the casket, due to the decomposition of the epidermis (skin), which normally keeps the body's liquids within the body during life. If one were to disinter a casket from a grave or mausoleum several months after burial or emtombment, it is possible that perhaps 10 to 25 gallons, or more, of liquids could be sloshing about in the casket. Not a very pretty mental picture, is it?

Typical American embalming usually modifies the decomposition process; it delays and slows the decay, and may, if thoroughly and correctly done, "lock in" the corpse liquids via saponification (the conversion of body fat into essentially a kind of soap), of the epidermal and fatty tissues by the formation of adipocere. However, if embalming is not done properly, almost no amount of embalming will prevent a body from entering a state of putrifying liquifaction (though adipocere may still form on obese bodies).

When this happens underground, as in an interment (burial), these natural enzyme and bacterial activities have no noticeable effect to observers in the cemetery. No one smells any offensive odors; no one sees any leakage of decomposed body fluids.

However, when a corpse liquifies in a mausoleum crypt, ANYONE may encounter a horrific sight and smell.

The specific circumstances which may favour problem-causing liquifaction within a crypt are:
* Warm temperatures;
* A sealed crypt environment which does not allow for the ventilation and evaporation of decomposition moisture and gases, and/or the drainage of corpse liquids and embalming fluids leaking through corroded or decayed caskets.

So-called "sealer" caskets, when sealed as designed, may act as a sort of "pressure cooker" upon the remains locked inside; thus the body may bloat, burst open, and spew liquified organs and tissues into the casket.

Occasionally, the above situation may result in the phenomenon informally known within the Death Care Industry as "Exploding Casket Syndrome". This is due to a buildup of extreme pressures within the sealed casket. When this happens, the casket may quite literally blow up, spewing corpse liquids and body parts throughout the mausoleum crypt. This may result in serious damage to the crypt itself; obviously the casket and the body are extremely damaged or destroyed by the explosion. The decorative marble fronts of the crypts may even be blown out; thus, foul-smelling liquids, semi-solids, and casket pieces may be thrown into the public area of the mausoleum. This is not only a traumatic incident; nearby people could be injured or killed by pieces of mausoleum marble and concrete acting as shrapnel!

Sometimes, the casket's seals will by design "burp", before an explosion can take place. Occasionally, these kind of seals may fail themselves, thus discharging corpse liquids in a rather aerosol-like manner.

The liquified substances of a decaying body are highly volitile, chemically speaking. They are highly acidic. The acids can eat through wood or metal caskets. The wood rots, while the metal corrodes or rusts. Even copper or bronze caskets are subject to eventual failure, due to these acids.

The liquids leak out the bottom of the casket and into the mausoleum crypt, which may cause problems. These mausoleum problems include:

* Foul odors;
* Seepage of body and embalming fluids out of the mausoleum crypt, and into the public viewing area, where people may encounter them;
* Unpleasant experiences for mausoleum visitors, and cemetery employees;
* Possible litigation against cemeteries and funeral homes, and employees of said organizations, by those traumatized by such experiences.

Mausoleum Leak Mystery Solved
Strange Liquid Oozing From Local Mausoleum

The mausoleum mystery has been solved!
images_sizedimage_137013448.jpg

We now know that a dark liquid at a crypt has been leaking from a corpse.

A disturbing possibility -- decomposing body builds up gas. It has nowhere to go. You're going to see what may have happened over 12 years in three seconds. The pressure over time could be great enough to crack the casket.

It's called "exploding casket syndrome," a phenomenon so rare that most morticians have only heard of it. And that's what may have happened at the sierra view cemetery in Olivehurst.

"It sounds to me like there's an expansion of gases within the remains," said Greg Fitzgerald, mortician.

Greg Fitzgerald has seen a lot in his days as a mortician, stories so unsettling that they're more like trade secrets -- like what can happen after a body is buried.

"It will continue to expand until it breaks apart, which is grisly," said Fitzgerald.

There's another possibility. The copper casket could've corroded from highly acidic decomposing body parts, just like battery acid, says Fitzgerald.

A faulty seal also might've allowed fluid to flow through a tiny hole and right through a sealed crypt.

"Decomposition frankly is not a pretty sight," said Kevin Flanagan, Department of Consumer Affairs.

After seeing our stories earlier this week, the state cemetery and funeral bureau inspected Sierra View today. Cemetery workers cleaned the vault, covered the casket with plastic, and resealed the crypt with caulk.

"I think it would be pretty surprising if there were any further problem," said Flanagan.

California inspectors found the cemetery did nothing wrong and fixed the problem quickly.

Sierra View operators never reported the problem to the state but that's because they don't have to.

The secrets of a cemetery usually stay six feet under where no one can see. This time the sights and smells of death and decomposition are discovered in public in plain view -- and it will happen again.

"We come from the earth and we do go back," said Fitzgerald.
 
Drew,

I agree that it is a more personal choice and that we should respect others' wishes.
But, for the sake of the discussion....

You say cremation sends a bad message to the world and God. I still do not see where you stated what this bad message is. After reading your replies I got the impression that you thought I was advocating the denial of God's power. Not at all. I was simply stating that God will resurrect us, no matter what the state of our bodies. And since He doesn't seem to say in the Bible which way he'd even prefer, then I think it's obvious it's not high on HIs priority list to tell us. As for the symbolism idea, I don't disagree that it could be good to use that, but all I'm saying is that I don't see that God advocates either way and that ultimately it doesn't matter. I honestly don't think the world looks on and says "Hmm.....those Christians are being cremated, even though they believe in a physical resurrection. Never joining those bunch of hypocrits." If anything, for a believer, being cremated almost increases one's idea of God's power - trusting that He will physically resurrrect us no matter what.

Caroline H said:
I understand what you are saying, and I do respect that. :yes But I do think that while you feel that it sends the wrong message to the world, others may not agree. Personally, I don't see it that way at all. Happyjoy did raise a point that I have pondered before... wouldn't it be better for us to not waste soooo muuuuch money on embalming and burials in coffins that cost as much as a car? In my opinion that sends a bad message to the world, because people are dying and starving and in need of help and here we are burying 1000's of $$'s with our loved one. :shrug
+1 :)
 
if you do donate to the organ harvisters, make sure they treat the deceased with respect as a coworkers daughter was laid out to swell up for days while they removed them organs. She only donated her eyes. they took all that they could. she looked she weighed 250 lbs at death when she actually weighed less than 110lbs. I saw here one week before her fatal accident.

she was only 27.
 
Jason,

I'm going to start a separate topic on organ doing, as it hasn't been disucssed in some time.
 
Nick said:
Jason,

I'm going to start a separate topic on organ doing, as it hasn't been disucssed in some time.
thanks, for that reason i refuse to donate and put my loved ones through that!
take what you need and quickly and leave the body to be embalmed.
 
Nick said:
You say cremation sends a bad message to the world and God. I still do not see where you stated what this bad message is.
I have repeated my objection several times - have you read all my posts.

Nick said:
And since He doesn't seem to say in the Bible which way he'd even prefer, then I think it's obvious it's not high on HIs priority list to tell us.
Do you really believe that the absence of a specific directive means that the issue does not have some importance?

Many dimiss the relevance / importance of the concept of the "story of God's redemptive action in the world" and simply look for a "list of do's and don'ts". The Bible is much more complex than that - it is an account of a God who is redeeming his creation in all respects, including a specifically physical redemption of all creation.

When we simply look for "do's and don'ts", we can miss the story and act in ways that tell a different story.

And that is precisely the problem with cremation - it implicitly says that the body is not important and can be incinerated.
 
Good lord, i hate to see what you think of the old custom burial at sea. the body is draped in a us flag and dropped overboard.

that's it. no time in war to carry all those coffins or body bags. the fish eat you! old navy custom. i have watched the videos of it from ww2. Thats what they do in ww2 and war when the ships are unable to return to the us quickly enough when the war dead on a vessel is in the 100's!

that the reasoning i hoped they used in ww2 and korea!
 
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