Should women submit to their husbands?
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Should women submit to their husbands?
- Thread starter Christ the King
- Start date
Yes, but being submissive and being treated like a slave are two entirely different things.
JohnDB
Member
Someone is trying to stir the pot by playing the spoon. And no one is taking the bait. The band stopped playing for a half note in surprise and then resumed.
So,.. in other words they were hoping for a way around the loophole but discovered that there isn't?
Here is my two cents worth . . . Jesus loved women as much as he loved men. He confided in Mary Magdalene. The church fathers at the council in Nicea chose not to make her a disciple because at the time women were seen as "the weaker sex." When I read the Bible I see instructions for a man to treat his wife well. In 2020 we have updated this to mean equally. In a Christian marriage, which relates more with scripture, I believe the man should be the Head of Household and have the last say but only after he has listened attentively to his wife's point of view. My husband and I had a Christian marriage, but we took turns being Head of Household because as he said: "You are smart Susannah and you know what you are doing. Sometimes you know more than I do." God bless his soul.
JohnDB
Member
Yeah...they were trying to get us all in an uproar but...we don't get hostile that way.
Interesting article . . . Submisssion in the Bible
JohnDB
Member
My wife gave me the leadership role in the house. I didn't demand it. Because of her gift she submitted to my leadership. It wasn't for my selfish needs but for her benefit.
I listen to her. She is a sharp lady. More than competent. I love her. So I don't want to do anything to drive her away from me.
There isn't much I put my foot down about. Serving God, going to church on Sunday, and dressing appropriately for services.
And loving each other is a competition in our house. Complete with trash talking and razzing when we win by making the other one feel loved.
I listen to her. She is a sharp lady. More than competent. I love her. So I don't want to do anything to drive her away from me.
There isn't much I put my foot down about. Serving God, going to church on Sunday, and dressing appropriately for services.
And loving each other is a competition in our house. Complete with trash talking and razzing when we win by making the other one feel loved.
What do you mean hostile!? I never get hostile!! How dare you even suggest such a thing!!
(Yes I'm just being silly. :P)
LovethroughDove
Member
I think ya know the answer per scripture. Ephesians 5:22
I grew up in a feminist household. I follow Christ and my sister went another direction, and it ends up in a Ahab/Jezebel situation.
It's no joke.
Christ_empowered
Member
just....a side note here...
I kind of think the patriarchy is just...how humankind rolls. its default. "its a man's world," whether one chooses to acknowledge it or not. I'm -not- saying that women should stay at home and no woman should pursue her own interests...
I'm saying that I think...maybe its from The Fall, maybe its a biological thing...men are in charge, men will probably have more power and authority than women till the end comes.
so...with that in mind... I think the "rules," outlined in Ephesians 5:22 , etc. are really a way of...making what we humans have to contend with in a fallen, male-dominated world, work out...at least for believers, anyway.
Men: sacrificial, Christ-like love for your wives. Women: respect, love, and (reasonable) submission to husbands. Especially in the context of a Greco-Roman world in which women...by and large, did -not- matter...this system 'works.'
And...I think there are different sorts of 'feminism,' too. The mindless, gender-deconstructing stuff that's going on now doesn't sit well with a number of sorts of 'feminists,' including some who strike me as on the more 'radical' end. If 'feminism,' to paraphrase a bumper sticker, is just the idea that women are people, too...
There's nothing anti-'feminist' about NT Scripture. NT treats women as people who are -not- the power group and are -not- men, acknowledges these differences, and calls for an orderly manner in which to deal with family life, church life, etc.
sorry to ramble. I think its easy to demonize 'feminism,' its also easy to misinterpret Scripture as some sort of hardcore patriarchy handbook. nuance, context, prayer...always helpful.
I kind of think the patriarchy is just...how humankind rolls. its default. "its a man's world," whether one chooses to acknowledge it or not. I'm -not- saying that women should stay at home and no woman should pursue her own interests...
I'm saying that I think...maybe its from The Fall, maybe its a biological thing...men are in charge, men will probably have more power and authority than women till the end comes.
so...with that in mind... I think the "rules," outlined in Ephesians 5:22 , etc. are really a way of...making what we humans have to contend with in a fallen, male-dominated world, work out...at least for believers, anyway.
Men: sacrificial, Christ-like love for your wives. Women: respect, love, and (reasonable) submission to husbands. Especially in the context of a Greco-Roman world in which women...by and large, did -not- matter...this system 'works.'
And...I think there are different sorts of 'feminism,' too. The mindless, gender-deconstructing stuff that's going on now doesn't sit well with a number of sorts of 'feminists,' including some who strike me as on the more 'radical' end. If 'feminism,' to paraphrase a bumper sticker, is just the idea that women are people, too...
There's nothing anti-'feminist' about NT Scripture. NT treats women as people who are -not- the power group and are -not- men, acknowledges these differences, and calls for an orderly manner in which to deal with family life, church life, etc.
sorry to ramble. I think its easy to demonize 'feminism,' its also easy to misinterpret Scripture as some sort of hardcore patriarchy handbook. nuance, context, prayer...always helpful.
Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
As long as the husband is the Spiritual head of the house like Christ is our Spiritual head then yes we should submit to our husband, body, soul and spirit as we submit to Christ as the head of the family.
As long as the husband is the Spiritual head of the house like Christ is our Spiritual head then yes we should submit to our husband, body, soul and spirit as we submit to Christ as the head of the family.
Susannah hits the nail on the head as she quite often does
This time it is with this article she linked
SUBMISSION OF WIVES TO HUSBANDS
I found myself nodding in agreement at every sentence
Anyone who is in tune with God's will and scripture understands the concept
“Submission” can be a hot-button term because of how it’s perceived in contemporary culture: the implication that women are inferior to men.
The term "submission" has a negative connotation to many people these days
It paints a picture of domination, slavery and servitude which is far from the truth
I just went on a rant and typed up several paragraphs before deleting it all. I can sum it all up like so;
Society has dismantled the nuclear family in various ways over the past few decades... Most families are now incomplete and/or dysfunctional which raises kids that are more likely to fail and produce more dysfunctional families. It will lead to the collapse of the west one day
This time it is with this article she linked
SUBMISSION OF WIVES TO HUSBANDS
I found myself nodding in agreement at every sentence
Anyone who is in tune with God's will and scripture understands the concept
“Submission” can be a hot-button term because of how it’s perceived in contemporary culture: the implication that women are inferior to men.
The term "submission" has a negative connotation to many people these days
It paints a picture of domination, slavery and servitude which is far from the truth
I just went on a rant and typed up several paragraphs before deleting it all. I can sum it all up like so;
Society has dismantled the nuclear family in various ways over the past few decades... Most families are now incomplete and/or dysfunctional which raises kids that are more likely to fail and produce more dysfunctional families. It will lead to the collapse of the west one day
Oh mate i hate that term "patriarchy".
It's modern definition says that men control society in order to keep women oppressed.
It's such a lie. I can't see anywhere in the history of mankind where men have oppressed women. In fact men have always protected the women in their society.
Rape for example isn't something that has just become illegal. It's always been considered to be one of the worse crimes since the beginning of civilization. Murder usually gets 25 years in prison. Its the same for rape. If thats not being protected im not sure what is
I read this really interesting book once about the history or religion in the world. It was entitled, Up from Eden. It said there was a "golden era" when all the Gods were women in the agrarian cultures. In the groups of hunters and gathers all the God's were male. In the culture where women were revered it was because they gave birth to new life like the seed giving way to food to feed the tribe. The Greeks had a group of Gods both male and female. The Jews were one of the tribes that had a male God. Eventually the male Gods all over the world began to dominate and this was the beginning of a male-dominated world. Thank you to the person that male-dominated is not the same as a patriarchy. That was reassuring.
I used to be a feminist and I still lean in that direction because I was a single parent and wanted a career. The Bible verses about men and women seemed to one-sided except for the versus about Martha's sister Mary. Today I have made piece with the idea of a male Head of Household if you are married. But is you are single you have to take on that role and it cannot sometimes be confusing as to where you fit in when it comes to the Bible. For a long time I was told Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. I know better now. I would love to know more about the role of widows in the culture of that time. Everyone take care.
I used to be a feminist and I still lean in that direction because I was a single parent and wanted a career. The Bible verses about men and women seemed to one-sided except for the versus about Martha's sister Mary. Today I have made piece with the idea of a male Head of Household if you are married. But is you are single you have to take on that role and it cannot sometimes be confusing as to where you fit in when it comes to the Bible. For a long time I was told Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. I know better now. I would love to know more about the role of widows in the culture of that time. Everyone take care.
LovethroughDove
Member
Hi Susannah. I don't know you personally, but most of what you post could be exactly my mom's history. You've even quoted her exact words. I used to think that the Bible was very male chauvinistic, but the faith itself rests on the testimony of the women who saw the risen Lord. This is where I resonate with my faith, cause God knows the value of women! Blessings to you.......
What everyone forgets are two vital elements.
1 this biblical ruling of wifes submitting to their husbands, is for Christians.
It has no relevance to nonchristians, they can ignore it.
2, Of even greater importance is the second part of the passage.
The immature always pluck verses out of context.
This verse in context says that husbands must, yes, must, no get out hisbands must love their wives in a self sacrifical totaly dedicated to their wife way.
If your husband is seeking to love you that way, what woman would not willingly submit to him?
The otherside of the coin is, if he does not love her in a self sCrifical way, she does not need to submit to him.
LovethroughDove
Member
I'm not going to sugar coat this. My husband and I went through something pretty significant 6 months ago and I still am not 100% positive we are through the woods yet. I was messing up big time with my feelings towards someone else. Mind you, I am born again and he will tell you "he is not". He gave me all of these stipulations about how I need to act in regards to talking online. I am going to listen to the guy, even though he does not have the same sacrificial feeling Jesus has for me. Jesus would've reassured me he is not leaving me, no matter what. I am going to submit to my husband even though he does not act like Christ.