Sinless for as long as God lives

[Kidron]

Did I write these words?

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8If you don't like what is in the bible then take it up with the Lord.

-
No, i would never give you credit for writing them, but i give you full credit for twisting them to teach religion while ignoring the Blood Atonement.

You are teaching religion.
Religion is mans effort to reach God by effort and deed and "self" works and self justification.
Buddha tried that, and failed.
Muslims try that and fail.
Christ earned Salvation is different.
Its God reaching US with the Cross.
BIG difference between what He did for us as a GIFT, and what you teach, if you care to notice.

 

[JLB]

That is your Gospel, and is not the Gospel of the GRACE of God.

Grace is the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit of Grace, given to us as a gift from God that empowers us to live and walk in the Spirit, and to crucify the flesh.

If we, through false teaching, ignore the purpose of the Holy Spirit, and yield to and practice the works of the flesh, rather than walking in the Spirit, then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Galatians 5:16-24


JLB

 

[JLB]

No, i would never give you credit for writing them, but i give you full credit for twisting them to teach religion while ignoring the Blood Atonement.

Please post the New Testament scripture that teaches us the Blood Atonement.

Here is what Paul said:

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

 

[Kidron]

Grace is the Holy Spirit.

JLB

-
Grace is God becoming a man to die for the sins of sinners who deserve to die for them. (Salvation)
Grace is God offering Jesus as a sacrifice to redeem the ungodly. Romans 5:8
Grace is God giving mercy to those who dont deserve it.
Grace is God's blood poured out on a cross to bring a lost sinner into His eternal family.
Grace is a Literal Cross with a Literal Savior named Jesus on it.

 

[JLB]

-
Grace is God becoming a man to die for the sins of sinners who deserve to die for them. (Salvation)
Grace is God offering Jesus as a sacrifice to redeem the ungodly. Romans 5:8
Grace is God giving mercy to those who dont deserve it.
Grace is God's blood poured out on a cross to bring a lost sinner into His eternal family.
Grace is a Literal Cross with a Literal Savior named Jesus on it.

• Jesus died on the cross so we could be reconciled to God.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

• We are given the Holy Spirit, because our past sins have been removed.

The Spirit of Grace, given to us as a gift from God that empowers us to live and walk in the Spirit, and to crucify the flesh.

If we, through false teaching, ignore the purpose of the Holy Spirit, and yield to and practice the works of the flesh, rather than walking in the Spirit, then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Galatians 5:16-24


JLB

 

[Kidron]

I dont know anyone that believes 'works' will save ya.
We do good works because we are saved. not to 'get' saved

-
Thats not what im referring to..
Im referring to the interesting theological pretzel that teaches that..... if you dont do certain works, or commandments, or enduring to the end, or any of this SELF EFFORT stuff, then you will lose your salvation = if you dont do these things.(works)
So, (all that) this is exactly the same as teaching that you are saved BY things you do.. = IF you are saying that by not doing these THINGS, you can lose your Salvation by not doing these WORKS.......and THAT is the clever spin., and thats the "another gospel". Galatians 1:8
We must reject this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
We must give all the Credit to being saved and staying saved to the >SAVIOR< and never to our "doing".

A person will say....."oh YES, the blood of Christ saves, BUT, BUT BUT,,,,,,You have to .....You have to."......... "you have to ALSO".....
NOPE. !!
So, once you add a YOU HAVE TO < you are no longer ONLY Trusting in Christ and the Blood Atonement to SAVE you and KEEP you saved...... and that theology is "another Gospel", Galatians 1:8

 

[WIP]

Im referring to the interesting theological pretzel that teaches that..... if you dont do certain works, or commandments, or enduring to the end, or any of this SELF EFFORT stuff, then you will lose your salvation = if you dont do these things.(works)

You are putting your words into others' mouths.

 

[Kidron]

Hi kidron,
I'm happy that you like me enough to mention me.
I just need you to know that I'm a girl.
I'm not working hard to be saved.
Being with Jesus is a joy -
NOT a work.
It's not easy to speak about spiritual matters. We are spirits in a material world. This makes it difficult.
The reason, I feel, that you separate Jesus and Paul is because Jesus was works oriented.
What was Mathew 5 about? The sermon on the mount. He does not come to abolish the Law.
no one is to annul even one of the commandments. Do not be angry with your brother. Leave your offerings. If your right eye make you stumble, pluck it out. (not literally!). Make no false vows. Turn the other cheeck, which means to not care what man thinks of you, give a man suing you your shirt also, give to him who asks of you,
Need I go on?
Works are there Kidron. You keep saying that they don't save us.
I AGREE.
But you do need to keep them after you're saved.
Mathew 7: 21

Wondering

I'm happy that you like me enough to mention me.
I just need you to know that I'm a girl.
-

Thank you for the gender correction update.
Happy to accommodate you.


I'm not working hard to be saved.

Why would you need to ???, when Jesus Himself has already done all the heavy lifting FOR YOU, for us ALL, on the Cross.



It's not easy to speak about spiritual matters. We are spirits in a material world. This makes it difficult.


Yes, that is true.......we are indeed experiencing the physical realm via our earth suits, temporarily..
(and that a really decent "Police" song).


The reason, I feel, that you separate Jesus and Paul is because Jesus was works oriented.
What was Mathew 5 about? The sermon on the mount. He does not come to abolish the Law.
no one is to annul even one of the commandments. Do not be angry with your brother. Leave your offerings. If your right eye make you stumble, pluck it out. (not literally!). Make no false vows. Turn the other cheeck, which means to not care what man thinks of you, give a man suing you your shirt also, give to him who asks of you,


Jesus certainly came to "fulfill all law"., and that is why we dont have to do it to be saved or to keep our salvation.
He already fulfilled the law for every believer, and after He did that, He took our sins away on a Cross.
So, that completed us, redeemed us, and reconnected us with Father God.
And when you list the works of a Disciple that follow our Salvation, im glad to be reminded of what im to do that represents God's mercy.., as these works of Love, are a light in this world of darkness that lead the lost to the Cross.
Also, "Loving one another", Jesus said, proves to the world that we are one of His......John 13:35


Need I go on?

Would you like to??


Works are there Kidron. You keep saying that they don't save us.
I AGREE.

"unity of the faith"..... Romans 16:16


But you do need to keep them after you're saved.

But not to keep yourself saved.
Think of it like this, Wondering..

A person joins the army....They go take the test, and pass it, and Sign up.
So, They are now IN < ........because they met the requirements.
Following >signing up<, they march, take orders, become good soldiers.
However, had they not >signed up<, then they are not in the Army.
For If they march, take orders, and wear the uniform, but are not signed up, = they are not in the army, they are just doing "army works".
So, with a Christian....we join God's army when Jesus signs us up with His Blood.
This puts us in the Army of God., and the we go and do the work of a soldier who is signed up.
They works are not the signing up...... they are just the evidence that we've been signed up already by Jesus's Blood., and this is discipleship, that is separate from the signing up.
The Blood signs you up through our faith, and then following this, our behavior shows the world we are signed up and to whom we are signed up.
However, our behavior does not keep us signed up, as the Blood is the Eternal Keeper of the signed.



K

 

[reba]

Bible Study needs to get back to it's basic format... If we wish to argue there are other forums here... .. I will be posting this in a number of threads ...

Recommendations and Guidelines for an effective Bible Study

Though not exhaustive, I thought it might help to better define the purpose of the Bible Study Forum, and by doing so, better assist one another with a clearer method to understanding God's word.

Guidelines

1. Scripture is the basis of study. Stay close to the text.
2. Keep your post to a manageable length where others can respond to a section of scripture as opposed to an entire article.
3. We encourage your understanding of a text. If you wish to post snipits from a website, please make sure it accompanies your comments of the text. Excessive copy / paste from web sites are frowned upon.
4. If you disagree with an interpretation of scripture, think out your response according to the specific text and post accordingly.
5. No debating doctrines or denominational differences. (E.G. TULIP, OSAS, Purgatory, Papacy etc)

The following considerations are suggested to assist in our study of Holy Scripture. This method utilizes an instructional and comprehensive approach

1.Exegesis; Critical explanation or analysis, especially of a text. (I.E. What does the text mean?)
2.Hermeneutics; The theory and methodology of interpretation, especially of scriptural text. (I.E. How did you come to the conclusion of your Exegesis? Does it agree with the Bible as a whole?)
3.Redaction; to draw up or frame ( I.E. a statement, proclamation, etc.)

 

[Kidron]

edited reba
2.14: 1.3: If you feel that any action taken was unfair, it can be appealed. To appeal an action taken against you by CF.net staff, you are advised to start a new thread in the ‘Talk With the Staff’ forum area. Threads in this forum are viewable only by the person initiating the thread and CF.net staff. In this private venue, anyone on the CF.net staff may respond, and the OP can address his/her concerns with regard to the action taken. This forum is intended only for appeals to actions by CF.net staff. TWTS area may also be used, according to Staff discretion, for other expedient purpose of communication. If a member agrees or disagrees with a Moderator's decision, they are not to make their opinion public.(see 1.3)

 

[Kidron]

• Jesus died on the cross so we could be reconciled to God.

• We are given the Holy Spirit, because our past sins have been removed.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

JLB

Exactly.

 

[reba]

1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Kidron]

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

-
See that verse?.....1 John 1:9?
This is not talking to a believer, as we dont confess to be forgiven, as a believer is already forgiven because of Christ's death.
(Christ died for sin).....(Christ became sin who knew no sin).
Then, go to Chapter 2, and start there, as John then addresses the "children", as this is how John speaks to the born again.
He's not speaking to them in 1J 1:1-10, and that is why he does not address them with the salutation He gives to the believers.

 

[reba]

The "US" is Christians .. The "WE" are christian also

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

unless you believe John is an unbeliever

 

[Chopper]

-

Brother, if the Blood of Christ does not keep you sinless, then hell is the end result of your journey and every believer's.
See, confession does not save you or get you into heaven,, as that is a work, (effort) and its not by our works we do but by Jesus's BLOOD according to God's GRACE that we are MADE RIGHTEOUS-Sinless......and this is a never ending Sinlessness that was purchased for you by the Blood of Jesus.

Chopper, i know your theology....Ok?.....I know what you believe, and i know you were taught to believe it by those who taught you.
Listen, everyone who is a Christian, when they get offtrack, theologically, its because they were led there by someone who led them off the track.
See, we dont know anything as a baby Christian, ....we are an empty page waiting for someone to write theology-doctrine into us, regarding what we will believe.
These are teachers that we find and follow, and if they are WRONG, then we are led astray.
So, here is your theology, and its the same for many here.

"""""" Jesus saved me, and then i messed up and sinned after HE SAVED ME,.... then i run to John 1:9 and "if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, and as long as i keep confessing I get to stay saved".
= NOPE. !!

So that is what you believe, and the problem with this is, ... that is isn't the truth.....that is not how Salvation, a GIFT, works.
What it is, is a legalist theology , a "keep myself saved by confession"....that does not understand 2 things about the Blood Atonement.
First, is that the blood of Jesus not only pays for all the sins we committed till we are saved, but it pays for all the sins you commit after you are saved.
Listen, if as you believe,, Salvation stops once you sin the day after you are redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, then this means that you are unsaved again, you are lost again, and then Jesus would have to DIE AGAIN, to save you all over again.
Do you see it?

2nd, Read and Believe this verse........... Romans 4:8.
Chopper, when your New Testament (Paul) tells you that YOU are the blessed that God will never again charge you, or hold you accountable for your sins, any of them, once you are saved, then BELIEVE IT.
Paul is talking TO YOU and all BELIEVERS.
Realize that the reason God does not hold your sins against you anymore is because CHRIST HAS ALREADY BEEN KILLED FOR THEM ALL.

Its like this......
You sin.....Christ already died for that.
You sin.....Christ already died for that.
You sin 3456, 7890 times, and Christ has ALREADY PAID FOR THEM ALL ON THE CROSS.

Every sin, you sin, before or after you saved, ...Christ ALREADY DIED for them, before you were born.

You have this idea that salvation stops when you sin, but that is not true....the Truth is.... Salvation is created to pay for every sin, so that you dont have to after you die........and that is what Jesus is doing on that CROSS.
Salvation is created to establish you as a Sinless Son of God, so that you are then made worthy by the Blood Of Christ to live in a Sinless Heaven, with a Sinless God.
This is what Salvation, the Blood of Christ, The Death of Christ on a Cross, does for you.

No, confession does not continue to save me. The Blood of Jesus did that. Confession of sin's committed simply removes that transgression so that I don't have to be chastised by a legal God.
When my book is opened at the throne of Christ, there will be no unconfessed sin that will rob me of a reward.

What I have been taught is orthodox Christian doctrines, taught by the Apostles, and our forefathers. What you are doing is grabbing bits and pieces of what the Apostle Paul taught and refusing to believe the rest of what he taught that goes against your hobby horse. Sinless perfection is a false doctrine of the end times. If you don't want to be known as a false teacher, I suggest that you repent of sinless perfection, and seek the Holy Spirit for Truth.

Why don't you quote....Romans 1:4 "And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name" Obedience implies works, works don't save you, but works identify you as belonging to the Christ of God. Paul also taught opposite of your teaching in Romans chapter 7.

Now, If Kidron doesn't ever sin, have you torn out these verses from your Bible? I will quote from 1 John 1:6-10 and 2 John 1-6 from the KJV and then a Greek interpretation of the same verses, so that you might understand....

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2:3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


"If we say that (indwelling) sin we are not having, ourselves we are leading astray (nobody else), and the truth is not in us. If we continue to confess our sins, faithful is He and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from every unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned and are now in a state where we do not sin, a liar we are making Him, and His Word is not in us.

My little children (born-ones, bairns), these things I am writing to you in order that you may not commit an act of sin. And if anyone commits an act of sin, One who pleads our cause we constantly have facing the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One. And He Himself is an expiatory satisfaction for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the whole world.

And in this we know experientially that we have come to know Him experientially and are in the state at present, if we are continually having a solicitous, watchful care in safeguarding His precepts by obeying them. He who keeps on saying, I have come to know Him experientially and as a present result am in that state, and His precepts in not habitually safeguarded with solicitous care, is a liar, and in this one the truth does not exist. But whoever habitually with a solicitous care is keeping His Word, truly, in this one the love of God has been brought to its completion with the present result that it is in that state of completion. In this we have an experiential knowledge that in Him we are. He who is constantly saying that h as a habit of life is living in close fellowship with and dependence upon Him is morally obligated just as that One conducted himself. also himself, in the manner spoken of to be conducting himself."

Did you see, in the Greek, "and are now in a state where we do not sin" This is what you are trying to convince everyone. Notice who you make a liar.... a liar we are making Him, and His Word is not in us. What does the Word of God say about you and your sinless perfection? The Word of God calls you a liar!! And the Word of God says you don't know the Word of God because its not in you!!

Unless you repent of your false teaching, something will have to be done to silence you so that new believers will not go astray from your false belief's.

 

[reba]

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[Kidron]

The "US" is Christians .. The "WE" are christian also

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

unless you believe John is an unbeliever

-
John knows that Christians are saved by Jesus's sacrifice, and this forgave their sins already. (""i will remember their sins NO MORE"").
You know this scripture, Reba?
Hebrews 8:12.
So, you have to ask yourself, "why would John be telling Christians to confess sins that God does not remember after they are saved.""
So, that is why John is not going to tell Christians that confessing their sins forgives them, again.
So, this is how you know that He is not talking to the born again believers.

 

[Kidron]

No, confession does not continue to save me. The Blood of Jesus did that. Confession of sin's committed simply removes that transgression so that I don't have to be chastised by a legal God.

-
Chopper, you just wrote this..
The blood of Jesus SAVED me, but confession "removes the transgression".
Sorry, that is nonsense.
Listen ......Because the Blood of Jesus saves you, then your transgressions are GONE...they are laid on the one who BORE YOUR SINS.
So, you dont remove them by confession, as they are ALREADY LAID ON CHRIST.. So, God does not remove them AGAIN, after Jesus already died to remove them ALL, and did.

Have you ever read, Hebrews 8:12?
This tells you that God does not remember your sins anymore.
So, stop teaching the false theology that a believer must confess a sin to have it forgiven, when in Fact, God does not even Remember them.
Dont teach that , as that is "another Gospel" Galatians 1:8
Also, if you read Romans 4:8, you'll discover that God does not EVER hold any Christian accountable for their sins, with respect to eternal judgment for them.
This is because Jesus was already KILLED FOR THEM ALL.
THIS is the BLOOD ATONEMENT.
This is SALVATION.


Hebrews 8:12
Romans 4:8.

 

[reba]

Kidron.,. Speaking as a member of staff the place for you to continue this sinless theory of yours is not in Bible Study . Plain Scriptures you do not show an interest in have been posed .. In reading your posts you wish to continue wiht the sinless heresy .. I am sending the thread to Christianity and other religions

 

[reba]

This is a few merged threads... the theme is we are sinless.. so i have moved them to here.. I will leave it closed you are most welcome to reject or accept this to this forum...