Smoking a Pipe

[Rinid]

I will bet you a month's pay that no reputable doctor would suggest that smoking is anything but a health disaster.

Please, I really hope no one is saying things like "smoking calms you down" so that's a good thing - so you see, smoking is OK. If it were the case that smoking is the only means to calm down a person, then there might be an argument here. But this is clearly not the case. Having a good session of sexual relations with your neighbour's wife might "calm the mind", but that hardly means its not sin.

If all the actual research is done and shows prolonged life then I have to stay with facts, my dr told me I would be dead by now. Guess what that was when I was 6 years old. Now i'm in my late 30's and my new dr says my bone disease doesn't shorten life, showed me facts. Forgive me if I ummm tend to stick to those.

Not this again. Is there a Biblical command to not get your 2000 calories of nutrition each day in the form of Oreo cookies? Of course not! Is it sin? Yes, you are damaging the temple of the Holy Spirit by doing so.

the bible gives very clear warnings about adding to it.

Two things:

1. No one is saying that morphine is sin. It relieves pain - a good thing. Does it have side-effects? Yes. But, on balance, the good outweighs the bad. And if it were true that were other ways to relieve pain without the negative side effects, then we should ditch the morphine. But I suspect this is not the case. Morphine is not analogous to smoking a pipe - there is no benefit to pipe-smoking that cannot be easily achieved through some less damaging behaviour.

2. The "idol" argument: This is clearly not a correct argument. What if I said this "I am having sex with my neighbour's wife, but I only do it now and then, and it is not an 'idol' for me, therefore it is not sin". Please.

Dude do you have a problem staying true to your wife? Just wondering because it seems to be what you always fall back on.. see the difference is you don't have to add to the bible to see adultry is a sin. where as you do have to add to make this arguement. Well unless you want make your own belief and disregaurd facts and then say oh hey the bible supports my belief, well maybe but umm not your facts. If you want your belief then fine, What i've always found is the bible is always with the facts. It wouldn't say Jesus died on the cross if it wasn't true. Remimber your belief if it goes against facts is just a belief.

 

[jasoncran]

i think its not a problem that drew wants to honor the lord's temple, just how he conveys it to others. are we not stewards of our bodies and money and also the earth? why then doesnt his position make sense?

i dont think smoking is a sin, but i can see why he does. my problem with that position is where do you stop? i dont like tv as it causes me to sin at times. should christians avoid tv like me? or what of secular music? or other things i must avoid?

 

[Hitch]

I told you Jason,no one should ever be allowed to do anything I dont like.

Clear?!!

 

[Rinid]

i think its not a problem that drew wants to honor the lord's temple, just how he conveys it to others. are we not stewards of our bodies and money and also the earth? why then doesnt his position make sense?

i dont think smoking is a sin, but i can see why he does. my problem with that position is where do you stop? i dont like tv as it causes me to sin at times. should christians avoid tv like me? or what of secular music? or other things i must avoid?

I would agree mostly here. cigs is mostly from being additicted to so would say you shouldn't be addicted to anything. Pipes isn't because of addiction usually. My dad smoked a pipe a few times a week and then one day quit and never touched it again. Later on he had cancer in his pancease. They checked his lungs and he blew it up further than most could and first thing they asked was do you smoke a pipe. He said not for a few years. I asked why they asked, they said that pipe smokers tend to have stronger lungs because they are constantly pulling air throught the pipe. Maybe this has an affect on the longer life thing..

See why I say don't add to is because i've seen my church history. The church once said don't take drugs. The leader died because he had high colesterol, died of heart problems dr's blamed on him not taking his drugs. This was a bit back but a few years ago my uncle refussed to take his marijuana pills for a cancer he had. These wasn't to smoke but pills to settle stomach and help bring up an appite. He refused to take them because of what they were made of.. These were all things to help the body live on, yet because the church decided to add to people refused meds that could have saved lives in many cases. See my church used to say don't drink coffee. The same church that now serves me coffee if I go there before service to talk. We need to keep the temple clean, but we need to stick to facts in doing that. We need to be careful not to set the same stumbling stone that the jewish leaders cast on the jews. Which was also started with good intenshions.

 

[Drew]

i think its not a problem that drew wants to honor the lord's temple, just how he conveys it to others. are we not stewards of our bodies and money and also the earth? why then doesnt his position make sense?

What, and please be specific, is "wrong" with the way I convey my position.

And with all due respect, I see nothing in this thread that suggests my position "doesn't make sense". What I see is a massive conspiracy of silence on the 6 point argument that smoking is sin. One poster, perhaps, has commented on it and conceded that the argument is correct.

Why are you simply ignoring my argument, jason?

Do you think that's appropriate, especially in light that you say my position does not make sense. That's easy for you to say, given that you (and pretty much everyone) else simply ignore my main argument.

 

[Drew]

If all the actual research is done and shows prolonged life then I have to stay with facts, my dr told me I would be dead by now. Guess what that was when I was 6 years old. Now i'm in my late 30's and my new dr says my bone disease doesn't shorten life, showed me facts. Forgive me if I ummm tend to stick to those.

Not sure I understand your point. It is established well beyond all reasonable doub that smoking is very bad for the health.

the bible gives very clear warnings about adding to it.

Not this again. I gave an example of how obviously incorrect this position is - there is no Bible rule against getting your 2000 calories all in the form of Oreo cookies. You simply ignored it. Using your reasoning it is "adding to the word of God" to suggest that it is sinful to destroy your body, and ruin your family, by killing yourself by eating nothing but Oreo cookies.

Please - we are not fools!! It is quite clear that we can draw legitimate inferences that certain activities are sinful, even if they are not explicitly prohibited in the Bible.

I have no idea how people have come believe the patent over-simplification that "if there is not a rule against it in the Bible, its not sin" position.

 

[Drew]

Dude do you have a problem staying true to your wife? Just wondering because it seems to be what you always fall back on..

Please do not behave like a child. You will be put on ignore with the likes of the others who are behaving this way.

see the difference is you don't have to add to the bible to see adultry is a sin. where as you do have to add to make this arguement.

Dealt this already and you have ignored my argument. It is clear beyond any doubt that there are many things we can infer are sin even though they are not outlawed in the Bible.

Consider this: Suppose that there is no law in country X about driving while dead drunk. Now, please do not simply ignore this argument - deal with it: Are you seriously going to tell me, and the other posters, that we cannot conclude that it is sinful to drive while dead drunk, just because there is no "thou shalt not drive while dead drunk?

I am, quite honestly, stunned that so many cling to the manifestly incorrect position that something is not sin unless there is a "thou shalt not" statement against in the Bible.

As I said, a lot of Sunday School teachers need to be lined up and slapped.

 

[jasoncran]

What, and please be specific, is "wrong" with the way I convey my position.

And with all due respect, I see nothing in this thread that suggests my position "doesn't make sense". What I see is a massive conspiracy of silence on the 6 point argument that smoking is sin. One poster, perhaps, has commented on it and conceded that the argument is correct.

Why are you simply ignoring my argument, jason?

Do you think that's appropriate, especially in light that you say my position does not make sense. That's easy for you to say, given that you (and pretty much everyone) else simply ignore my main argument.

i didnt say that it doesnt make sense, drew. its how you convey it with words. if i talk about my walking away from tv and secular music, i always make sure to mention that one must FELT lead to do it. to me i cant watch tv its a sin for the most part.and I PRAY for them and make sure commpassion is posted.

its easy for us non-smokers to say stop and dont do it. you dont convey compassion at all.

next taking this body as the temple logic.

my daughter is a single mom and works her but off, how can she find time to work out? when she gets no money from her ex for her kids and lives on food stamps.

so is she a sinnner because she has weight? see where this comes in?

or what of my case that i must work alot or a cop who works 12 hrs shifts and is a single parent. they dont have time to work out. sometimes diet alone (my case) isnt enough.


are these a sinning?neither could i call a smoker in the same class as a murder/adulterer. if that is the case dont listen to any pastor who is overweight and also has bad eating habits.

 

[jasoncran]

my only problem really with your position on the temple is that some due to mistakes cant be as healthy due to work.or the situation they are in. this is rare but lets not forget single parents are there.

otherwise i agree with your position.

 

[pjt]

As I said, a lot of Sunday School teachers need to be lined up and slapped.

Drew, do you not find it a little contradictory that you can declare so many little things as sin, but you see nothing wrong with saying and repeating we need to line up and slap Sunday School teachers?

 

[reba]

Edited.

 

[Hitch]

Today's question is ribbon cut or flake?

Ribbons pack easier but flake have a sort of layered substance in the smoke

 

[Mike]

Like I said in my last post, either members would stop getting personal, or this gets locked. We've had to do a lot of editing and deleting, and still we're not heard. I'm locking this thread.