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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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So 123 members what do you think of the health care bill ?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Caroline H
Member
Well, we could start by trying to fix our existing programs like Midicaid and Medicare. Those programs are already in place to help the babies, the old, and the poor. Our medical system is steeped in excessive charges to cover lawsuits and uncollected bills, and so is the medical insurance industry. If we refuse to fix those problems, getting a new program isn't going to help because that new system is going to be sucked down by the same problems as the other programs. It's like throwing more water into the sink to keep it full, when what needs to be done is plugging the drain. I understand it's a lot more complicated than that, but a quick easy fix is no fix at all, and future generations will reap the damage more than we will... in my opinion.
Lewis
Member
4 Countries With Better Healthcare Than Ours
By Rick Newman
Posted: September 15, 2009
If the healthcare systems in Canada and Europe are so much worse than ours, somebody ought to tell the Canadians and Europeans.
There's little dispute that the United States has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. Our nation spends about $7,300 per person on healthcare every year, nearly 2.5 times the average for developed countries, which is $2,964, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
But there's intense argument over whether our system is better than that in other countries. Just about everybody with an opinion on the matter has a horror story to support it. To make his case for reform, President Obama has cited several Americans who suffered or died because they couldn't get adequate care or an insurance company
denied coverage. Defenders of the U.S. system trot out examples of Canadians or Brits who had to wait so long for rationed care that they developed several new diseases in the meantime. And everybody loves to pick on France, where care is generous but taxes
are high and work optional.
Anecdotal snapshots, however, tell us nothing meaningful about an issue as complex as healthcare, since the plight of a given individual reveals nothing about the effectiveness of the overall system. Now we know something more useful: how citizens in various countries rate their own healthcare systems. The Deloitte Center for Health Solutions surveyed 14,000 people in six countries, asking them to grade their own healthcare system from A to F. The standardized results allow comparisons among all six countries.
If you're expecting to hear that the United States scored worst, then surprise! America was only second worst. Germany got the lowest grades, with just 18 percent of Germans giving their healthcare system an A or B. In the United States, 22 percent of respondents gave the healthcare system an A or B. Switzerland got the highest marks, with 66 percent of people giving the system top grades; France was next, at 63 percent.
Here's how all six countries fared. The survey data are from Deloitte. Also included are cost data from the OECD, to give a sense of who's getting the most satisfaction per healthcare dollar:
Canada: Percent rating the healthcare system A or B: 46 percent; D or F: 15 percent; annual healthcare spending per person: $3,895
France: A or B: 63 percent; D or F: 12 percent; spending: $3,601
Germany: A or B: 18 percent; D or F: 44 percent; spending: $3,588
Switzerland: A or B: 66 percent; D or F: 14 percent; spending: $4,417
United Kingdom: A or B: 32 percent; D or F: 20 percent; spending: $2,992
United States: A or B: 22 percent; D or F: 38 percent; spending: $7,290
Many critics of American healthcare would like to see the United States adopt a single-payer system modeled on Canada or the U.K., while free-market defenders insist that government-run healthcare would be a disaster. Deloitte's survey data show that socialized medicine in Canada and Britain is more popular than the quasi-capitalist healthcare system in America—which costs far more. Brits and Canadians may be more satisfied partly because they have a higher tolerance for government bureaucracy than Americans do. But the findings also undercut claims that the British and Canadian systems don't work.
[See why postal-style healthcare might not be so bad.]
The Economist recently derided American critics of Britain's National Health System for creating a bogus bogeyman meant to scare Americans anxious about reform. "Painting an inaccurate picture of the British system . . . helps blind Americans to weaknesses in their own one," the magazine wrote. "The NHS costs half as much per person as the American system costs. Yet it delivers results which are on some plausible measures actually superior. . . . And it does this while avoiding the disgrace that so shames America, of leaving around 46 million people, some 15 percent of its population, without any form of health insurance."
But don't bother asking the Brits about their own system. What do they know?
http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/09/15/4-countries-with-better-healthcare-than-ours-
By Rick Newman
Posted: September 15, 2009
If the healthcare systems in Canada and Europe are so much worse than ours, somebody ought to tell the Canadians and Europeans.
There's little dispute that the United States has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. Our nation spends about $7,300 per person on healthcare every year, nearly 2.5 times the average for developed countries, which is $2,964, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
But there's intense argument over whether our system is better than that in other countries. Just about everybody with an opinion on the matter has a horror story to support it. To make his case for reform, President Obama has cited several Americans who suffered or died because they couldn't get adequate care or an insurance company
denied coverage. Defenders of the U.S. system trot out examples of Canadians or Brits who had to wait so long for rationed care that they developed several new diseases in the meantime. And everybody loves to pick on France, where care is generous but taxes
are high and work optional.
Anecdotal snapshots, however, tell us nothing meaningful about an issue as complex as healthcare, since the plight of a given individual reveals nothing about the effectiveness of the overall system. Now we know something more useful: how citizens in various countries rate their own healthcare systems. The Deloitte Center for Health Solutions surveyed 14,000 people in six countries, asking them to grade their own healthcare system from A to F. The standardized results allow comparisons among all six countries.
If you're expecting to hear that the United States scored worst, then surprise! America was only second worst. Germany got the lowest grades, with just 18 percent of Germans giving their healthcare system an A or B. In the United States, 22 percent of respondents gave the healthcare system an A or B. Switzerland got the highest marks, with 66 percent of people giving the system top grades; France was next, at 63 percent.
Here's how all six countries fared. The survey data are from Deloitte. Also included are cost data from the OECD, to give a sense of who's getting the most satisfaction per healthcare dollar:
Canada: Percent rating the healthcare system A or B: 46 percent; D or F: 15 percent; annual healthcare spending per person: $3,895
France: A or B: 63 percent; D or F: 12 percent; spending: $3,601
Germany: A or B: 18 percent; D or F: 44 percent; spending: $3,588
Switzerland: A or B: 66 percent; D or F: 14 percent; spending: $4,417
United Kingdom: A or B: 32 percent; D or F: 20 percent; spending: $2,992
United States: A or B: 22 percent; D or F: 38 percent; spending: $7,290
Many critics of American healthcare would like to see the United States adopt a single-payer system modeled on Canada or the U.K., while free-market defenders insist that government-run healthcare would be a disaster. Deloitte's survey data show that socialized medicine in Canada and Britain is more popular than the quasi-capitalist healthcare system in America—which costs far more. Brits and Canadians may be more satisfied partly because they have a higher tolerance for government bureaucracy than Americans do. But the findings also undercut claims that the British and Canadian systems don't work.
[See why postal-style healthcare might not be so bad.]
The Economist recently derided American critics of Britain's National Health System for creating a bogus bogeyman meant to scare Americans anxious about reform. "Painting an inaccurate picture of the British system . . . helps blind Americans to weaknesses in their own one," the magazine wrote. "The NHS costs half as much per person as the American system costs. Yet it delivers results which are on some plausible measures actually superior. . . . And it does this while avoiding the disgrace that so shames America, of leaving around 46 million people, some 15 percent of its population, without any form of health insurance."
But don't bother asking the Brits about their own system. What do they know?
http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/09/15/4-countries-with-better-healthcare-than-ours-
R
Rick W
Guest
Do foreign systems require everybody carry health insurance or be fined?
The IRS will need 16,500 additional staffers to make sure US citizens will do just that or face fines up to 2.5% of their income and under the threat of serving time in jail.
Do these other countries have these mandatory requirements?
It'll create new jobs though. 16,500 more IRS openings and thousands more government jobs will be created to administrate this new entitlement program that Medicaid and Medicare have gone far in the red attempting to accomplish. If those two programs haven't made the grade what makes anyone think another one will?
Medicare and Medicaid do not regulate outside institutions. That's the only difference... regulation of the entire healthcare industry and control of another 20% of our economy. If this was about providing healthcare to "the poor people of America, the old, and the babies" we'd concentrate on getting those two programs on track to do what they were meant to do in the first place.... take care of "the poor people of America, the old, and the babies".
This isn't about healthcare. Never was.
Who will pay the salaries for the dramatic increase in government jobs? Not profits. Each job created will be a taxpayer liability generating no revenue on their own. None.
Wouldn't it make more sense to put all the money spent on bureaucracy toward actually taking care of "the poor people of America, the old, and the babies"?
This isn't about healthcare. Never was.
The IRS will need 16,500 additional staffers to make sure US citizens will do just that or face fines up to 2.5% of their income and under the threat of serving time in jail.
Do these other countries have these mandatory requirements?
It'll create new jobs though. 16,500 more IRS openings and thousands more government jobs will be created to administrate this new entitlement program that Medicaid and Medicare have gone far in the red attempting to accomplish. If those two programs haven't made the grade what makes anyone think another one will?
Medicare and Medicaid do not regulate outside institutions. That's the only difference... regulation of the entire healthcare industry and control of another 20% of our economy. If this was about providing healthcare to "the poor people of America, the old, and the babies" we'd concentrate on getting those two programs on track to do what they were meant to do in the first place.... take care of "the poor people of America, the old, and the babies".
This isn't about healthcare. Never was.
Who will pay the salaries for the dramatic increase in government jobs? Not profits. Each job created will be a taxpayer liability generating no revenue on their own. None.
Wouldn't it make more sense to put all the money spent on bureaucracy toward actually taking care of "the poor people of America, the old, and the babies"?
This isn't about healthcare. Never was.
GodspromisesRyes
Member
I would kindly thank them but give the credit to the Lord. But that is not the point. The point is that this world is going to dwildle down to a situation where the world and the beleivers do not mix well. Where the Lord will no longer allow His people to run to the world for help in time of need but to rest and trust in Himalone.jasoncran said:
In order for that to happen. extreme things like this healthcare bill will have to happen so that they can begin to require Gods people to do things that they do not want to take part of. Hitler had similar health care plans and he was able to use it to get rid of disabled people and elderly etc and kill them off without anyone knowing what was happening.
Today we have options to go to the bank for money, to go to the doctor for medicine, to go to the store for food but there will come a day when all we can go to is GOD unless we cross over to their side and there is no going back after that.
Lewis
Member
I think this has gone to far.
Published: March 24, 2010
After Health Vote, Democrats are Threatened
WASHINGTON — Democratic lawmakers have received death threats and been the victims of vandalism because of their votes in favor of the health care bill, lawmakers and law enforcement officials said Wednesday, as the Congressional debate over the issue headed toward a bitter and divisive conclusion.
Representative Steny H. Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland and the majority leader, said at least 10 House members had raised concerns about their personal security since Sunday’s climactic vote, and Mr. Hoyer characterized the cases as serious.
At least two Congressional district offices were vandalized and Representative Louise M. Slaughter, a senior Democrat from New York, received a phone message threatening sniper attacks against lawmakers and their families.
Ms. Slaughter also reported that a brick was thrown through a window of her office in Niagara Falls, and Representative Gabrielle Giffords, Democrat of Arizona, said Monday that her Tucson office was vandalized after the vote.
The Associated Press reported that the authorities in Virginia were investigating a cut propane line to an outdoor grill at the home of a brother of Representative Tom Perriello of Virginia, after the address was mistakenly listed on a Tea Party Web site as the residence of the congressman. Representative Bart Stupak, Democrat of Michigan and a central figure in the measure’s abortion provisions, reported receiving threatening phone calls.
Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, the highest-ranking black lawmaker in the House, said he received an anonymous fax showing the image of a noose.
As they prepared to leave Washington for a two-week recess, House Democrats met with Capitol Police and representatives of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to get advice on how to deal with security issues, and they pressed Republicans to join them in renouncing threats and violence.
“What we want to be sure is that people know that these threats have no place in our country,†Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. “We have a legitimate disagreement. We have passed landmark legislation, and there are strong differences of opinion about it. Our Constitution allows us to have a lively debate in that regard, and that does not include threats to violence.â€
Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the Republican leader, spoke out against violence but encouraged Americans to continue to find ways to counter the legislation.
“I know many Americans are angry over this health care bill, and that Washington Democrats just aren’t listening,†Mr. Boehner said in a statement. “But, as I’ve said, violence and threats are unacceptable. That’s not the American way. We need to take that anger and channel it into positive change.â€
Republicans also noted that their members have received threats in the past and that Senator Jim Bunning, Republican of Kentucky, was recently the target of abuse when he blocked added unemployment benefits.
Still, the dark and personal tone of the final stages of the health fight could complicate Republican efforts to maintain their attacks on the legislation if they are seen as inciting an undue level of outrage and, conversely, could bolster Democrats if opponents of the measure are seen as breaching the boundaries of civility.
The reports of threats, coming after a tense weekend when protesters hurled racial and homophobic slurs at Democrats and spit on one congressman, left many Democrats shaken.
Paul Bresson, a spokesman for the F.B.I, said the bureau was aware of several threats against members of Congress and was investigating them jointly with the Capitol Police, which handles security for Congress, and local law enforcement agencies. He declined to say how many cases there were or to describe them in detail.
“We are looking at them and taking them very seriously,†Mr. Bresson said.
Democrats also raised questions about some of the imagery and phrases being employed by Republicans against the Democratic architects and backers of the measure, noting that a Republican National Committee Web site urging supporters to fire Ms. Pelosi has her surrounded by flames. A Facebook page of Sarah Palin singling out Democratic members for defeat because of their votes defines their districts by the crosshairs of a weapon’s sight.
Republicans dismissed objections to the imagery. “The message of our Web site is clear, it is time to put Nancy Pelosi out of a job,†said Katie Wright, a spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee.
In the Senate, Democrats sought to finish changes to the new health legislation by plowing through dozens of Republican efforts to change the measure and force a second House vote.
Senate Democrats accused Republicans of delay tactics and of forcing the cancellation of unrelated committee sessions over anger about the health measure.
Senators Carl Levin of Michigan and Claire McCaskill of Missouri were furious that Republican objections prevented hearings Wednesday on the Pentagon budget and the training of Afghan police officers.
“The obstruction has become mindless, it’s become purposeless,†Mr. Levin said.
Republicans offered numerous proposals to highlight what they see as flaws in the health law and to force Democrats into taking politically difficult votes. One amendment, proposed by Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, would prohibit coverage of Viagra for child molesters.
The Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, said the passel of amendments showed Republicans were “putting roadblocks in front of anything that we do to try to improve health care for America.â€
“How serious could they be, offering an amendment dealing with Viagra for rapists?†Mr. Reid asked.
Republicans said they would not curtail their campaign against the measure even if the changes pass the Senate and become law.
“We’ve fought on behalf of the American people this week — and we’ll continue to fight until this bill is repealed and replaced with common-sense ideas that solve our problems without dismantling the health care system we have,†said Senator Mitch McConnell, of Kentucky, the Republican leader.
One day after he signed the health measure into law during a festive East Room ceremony, President Obama held a far different ceremony on Wednesday: a closed-door Oval Office session where, in the presence of 13 anti-abortion Democrats including Mr. Stupak, he put his signature to an executive order barring federal financing for abortion. The order helped secure House passage of the bill by securing the votes of Mr. Stupak and others. After Mr. Obama signed it, at 2:34 p.m., the White House released an official photograph — the only coverage of the event.
White House officials also held a conference call with reporters to argue for the clear constitutionality of the new health insurance law based on court precedents, and one called lawsuits being initiated against it by attorneys general around the country “completely without merit.†http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/healt ... th.html?hp
Published: March 24, 2010
After Health Vote, Democrats are Threatened
WASHINGTON — Democratic lawmakers have received death threats and been the victims of vandalism because of their votes in favor of the health care bill, lawmakers and law enforcement officials said Wednesday, as the Congressional debate over the issue headed toward a bitter and divisive conclusion.
Representative Steny H. Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland and the majority leader, said at least 10 House members had raised concerns about their personal security since Sunday’s climactic vote, and Mr. Hoyer characterized the cases as serious.
At least two Congressional district offices were vandalized and Representative Louise M. Slaughter, a senior Democrat from New York, received a phone message threatening sniper attacks against lawmakers and their families.
Ms. Slaughter also reported that a brick was thrown through a window of her office in Niagara Falls, and Representative Gabrielle Giffords, Democrat of Arizona, said Monday that her Tucson office was vandalized after the vote.
The Associated Press reported that the authorities in Virginia were investigating a cut propane line to an outdoor grill at the home of a brother of Representative Tom Perriello of Virginia, after the address was mistakenly listed on a Tea Party Web site as the residence of the congressman. Representative Bart Stupak, Democrat of Michigan and a central figure in the measure’s abortion provisions, reported receiving threatening phone calls.
Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, the highest-ranking black lawmaker in the House, said he received an anonymous fax showing the image of a noose.
As they prepared to leave Washington for a two-week recess, House Democrats met with Capitol Police and representatives of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to get advice on how to deal with security issues, and they pressed Republicans to join them in renouncing threats and violence.
“What we want to be sure is that people know that these threats have no place in our country,†Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. “We have a legitimate disagreement. We have passed landmark legislation, and there are strong differences of opinion about it. Our Constitution allows us to have a lively debate in that regard, and that does not include threats to violence.â€
Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the Republican leader, spoke out against violence but encouraged Americans to continue to find ways to counter the legislation.
“I know many Americans are angry over this health care bill, and that Washington Democrats just aren’t listening,†Mr. Boehner said in a statement. “But, as I’ve said, violence and threats are unacceptable. That’s not the American way. We need to take that anger and channel it into positive change.â€
Republicans also noted that their members have received threats in the past and that Senator Jim Bunning, Republican of Kentucky, was recently the target of abuse when he blocked added unemployment benefits.
Still, the dark and personal tone of the final stages of the health fight could complicate Republican efforts to maintain their attacks on the legislation if they are seen as inciting an undue level of outrage and, conversely, could bolster Democrats if opponents of the measure are seen as breaching the boundaries of civility.
The reports of threats, coming after a tense weekend when protesters hurled racial and homophobic slurs at Democrats and spit on one congressman, left many Democrats shaken.
Paul Bresson, a spokesman for the F.B.I, said the bureau was aware of several threats against members of Congress and was investigating them jointly with the Capitol Police, which handles security for Congress, and local law enforcement agencies. He declined to say how many cases there were or to describe them in detail.
“We are looking at them and taking them very seriously,†Mr. Bresson said.
Democrats also raised questions about some of the imagery and phrases being employed by Republicans against the Democratic architects and backers of the measure, noting that a Republican National Committee Web site urging supporters to fire Ms. Pelosi has her surrounded by flames. A Facebook page of Sarah Palin singling out Democratic members for defeat because of their votes defines their districts by the crosshairs of a weapon’s sight.
Republicans dismissed objections to the imagery. “The message of our Web site is clear, it is time to put Nancy Pelosi out of a job,†said Katie Wright, a spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee.
In the Senate, Democrats sought to finish changes to the new health legislation by plowing through dozens of Republican efforts to change the measure and force a second House vote.
Senate Democrats accused Republicans of delay tactics and of forcing the cancellation of unrelated committee sessions over anger about the health measure.
Senators Carl Levin of Michigan and Claire McCaskill of Missouri were furious that Republican objections prevented hearings Wednesday on the Pentagon budget and the training of Afghan police officers.
“The obstruction has become mindless, it’s become purposeless,†Mr. Levin said.
Republicans offered numerous proposals to highlight what they see as flaws in the health law and to force Democrats into taking politically difficult votes. One amendment, proposed by Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, would prohibit coverage of Viagra for child molesters.
The Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, said the passel of amendments showed Republicans were “putting roadblocks in front of anything that we do to try to improve health care for America.â€
“How serious could they be, offering an amendment dealing with Viagra for rapists?†Mr. Reid asked.
Republicans said they would not curtail their campaign against the measure even if the changes pass the Senate and become law.
“We’ve fought on behalf of the American people this week — and we’ll continue to fight until this bill is repealed and replaced with common-sense ideas that solve our problems without dismantling the health care system we have,†said Senator Mitch McConnell, of Kentucky, the Republican leader.
One day after he signed the health measure into law during a festive East Room ceremony, President Obama held a far different ceremony on Wednesday: a closed-door Oval Office session where, in the presence of 13 anti-abortion Democrats including Mr. Stupak, he put his signature to an executive order barring federal financing for abortion. The order helped secure House passage of the bill by securing the votes of Mr. Stupak and others. After Mr. Obama signed it, at 2:34 p.m., the White House released an official photograph — the only coverage of the event.
White House officials also held a conference call with reporters to argue for the clear constitutionality of the new health insurance law based on court precedents, and one called lawsuits being initiated against it by attorneys general around the country “completely without merit.†http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/healt ... th.html?hp
logical bob
Member
Hi everyone. I'm in the UK and I've been reading these threads trying to understand the controversy in the States just now, but my jaw dropped when I saw those figures. My understanding was that you guys all had private sector medical insurance which you paid for out of your own pockets, so I always assumed that the US government would be spending far less on healthcare than our government over here. But it's nearly 2.5 times as much! Where does all that money go if you still have to pay for insurance too?Lewis W said:
R
Rick W
Guest
I don't know bob. We already have programs for those without healthcare coverage, Medicaid and coverage for the elderly, Medicare. Those two programs are far into the red adding trillions of unfunded liability to the deficit. So we're going to try again with another program to do what the other two don't seem to be able to do. In fact, we're going to make cuts to Medicare to boost Medicaid. This time around though we're going to pressure the private sector so they can't make profits hopefully clearing the way for the white horse of the government to come riding in to save the day. Again.
It's all a bit confusing, I know, but since we the people don't have the ability to understand it we must have faith the government knows what they are doing to take care of us since it's quite obvious we can't do that as demonstrated by the money we spend foolishly for healthcare.
:gah
This bill is supposed to cost $1 trillion. That's smart government don't you see. This one won't go over-budget like the other two.
:ohwell
It's all a bit confusing, I know, but since we the people don't have the ability to understand it we must have faith the government knows what they are doing to take care of us since it's quite obvious we can't do that as demonstrated by the money we spend foolishly for healthcare.
:gah
This bill is supposed to cost $1 trillion. That's smart government don't you see. This one won't go over-budget like the other two.
:ohwell
R
Rick W
Guest
This attempt will pose restrictions, regulations, fees and penalties on private insurers who are supposed to take on 30-47 million more people without any kind of denial. To remain in business, you know, making the evil profits that bring down our economy, will jack up the prices. These extra costs will be passed on to the consumer in the form of higher premiums. When these rates go up to 300% in the future the government, that caused the extra burdens in the first place, will again save us from the evil profiteers, capitalism is bad you know, through government insurance plans or a single-payer plan.
Then everyone will live happily ever after in the shadow of government provided prosperity.
Then everyone will live happily ever after in the shadow of government provided prosperity.
Mysteryman
Member
Rick W said:This attempt will pose restrictions, regulations, fees and penalties on private insurers who are supposed to take on 30-47 million more people without any kind of denial. To remain in business, you know, making the evil profits that bring down our economy, will jack up the prices. These extra costs will be passed on to the consumer in the form of higher premiums. When these rates go up to 300% in the future the government, that caused the extra burdens in the first place, will again save us from the evil profiteers, capitalism is bad you know, through government insurance plans or a single-payer plan.
Then everyone will live happily ever after in the shadow of government provided prosperity.
True !
Thus making the gov. their god, and provider , and supplier.
Then the decree will go out -- I can do all things through the US gov. which supplieth me
I stand by my original statement: We are on our way to Hell in a handbasket. Hope those who love this fricken stupid bill are happy with themselves. Try living off of 800 dollars a month....or better yet. Go without a fricken job at all to support your family, then tell me how this wonderful healthcare is going to help. Yeah...lets tax the mess out of the people while so many of them are already jobless, that will create cash flow....yeah right. It is a bunch of crap!
