Bible Study SO YOU THINK YOU ARE SAVED.

[GodsGrace]

Hi Chopper

Good thread. As always.

Re the commandments. Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.
Mathew 5:17

The Law is not abolished. We say it's nailed to the cross, or maybe sin was nailed to the cross, or maybe our sin debt was nailed - it could be argued. Law died with Jesus and with us when we became born again because we are not longer under the DOMINION of the Law. We need not fear it because the Holy Spirit will guide us in understanding it and help us to keep it, without fear but because we WANT to. We want to because we are a friend to God. We're no longer under Law but under Grace. O.C. vs N.C. Pretty much what Reba said very nicely in post no. 7

Doing the Will of the Father. What is the will of the Father? Mathew 7:21
The will of the Father is to BELIEVE in His Son.
Ah. But what does "believe" mean? Does it mean to just know with the mind that Jesus existed and He said a few things we should do? No. It means much more than that. Believe in the Greeks language used to write the N.T. meant to believe with the mind but also to believe with the heart and the will. To agree to, to understand, to follow, to adhere to. It means to believe with your mind, your heart and your soul.
Remind you of something?
Mathew 22:37
Love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

So to believe in the Son is to do the will of the Father
To do the will of the Father is to BELIEVE in the Son

Just before Mathew 7:21 Jesus was explaining about knowing a tree by its fruit, good fruit and bad fruit.
Sounds like we're asked to bear good fruit and that's doing the will of the Father.

You bring up divorce. I'm hating divorce these days. A friend with two divorced daughers with kids.
Another one with a divorced daughter with an 11 yr old. How do you think kids like extended families?
So, yeah. Howard and Denise. Easy to talk the talk - more difficult to walk the walk.

But WHO walks the walk? We all fall, we all sin, we all fall short of the mark.
But some effort must be made.
How much effort our we willing to make?
Is there a limit?

Wondering

 

[JohnDB]

Sin vx transgressions...

And I'm watching for how you handle the differences between the two.

Not passing judgment... Just watching.

 

[reba]

splane Lucy

 

[ezrider]

There are many people, of whom I have counseled that have problems with the reality of God. Why? Because they sin and think that they can get away with it.

Just a quick note about the Commandments. I'm not writing about Salvation. I'm writing about how to walk in the Spirit that would fulfill the desire of God to live the way He intended.

I want to thank those of you who have responded thus far. Now we are going to dig into the meat of my OP verses.

I am going to use marriage and divorce as my main subject. This is a very serious subject that will explain a lot of what's happening in lives that don't take sin and it's results as serious as it should be. Part of this thread will touch on the fear of God, and the consequences of sin.

Chopper, how are doing my friend? I hope your health has been improving.

When it comes to walking after the spirit, and more so to following the commandment of God, I would first have ask if these were the commandment of Moses or the Commandment that Jesus gave us, because there is a huge difference between the two (I will touch on that more later). Sin and Death come by the law. Grace and truth came by Christ (John 1:17). The Commandment given by Moses was unto condemnation unto death, or as Paul called it the ministration of death (2 Cor 3:7). The Commandment the Jesus gave us was to forgive one another (Luke 6:37).

Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. That perfection is found in grace and mercy. It is the devil that uses the authority of the Law to condemnation, for the devil is your accuser (Rev 12:10). Or as Jesus said, you have one that accuses you, even Moses in whom you trust (John 5:45).

Since you brought in marriage and divorce to reflect upon in discussing this subject, And from the example you began to present, I would assume that you have done your share of marriage counseling. So without going into details or specifics, could you boil down the most common reasons that you find that couples use to justify their divorce. Then from those reasons, if we were to look at them from the standpoint of law versus grace, Could we say that most of the reasons for justification could be classified as "legalism." Has anyone divorced for being to Graceful?

 

[Malachi]

The next day we sin...are these sins already forgiven/blotted out, we go on our merry way without concern?

Had you remembered that receiving Christ as Lord and Savior and repentance toward God are two sides of the same coin, the question of "the next day we sin" would not come up. Repentance means a turning away from sins and idols and that is essential for salvation -- "Repent and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3:19).

And no, if a Christian does sin, he does not go on his merry way without concern. Far from it. Scripture makes it clear that we are to examine ourselves constantly, particularly before partaking of the Lord's Supper. And there are serious consequences for Christians who fail to repent or continue to practice sin.

 

[JLB]

Repentance means a turning away from sins and idols

Repent of your sins is not the Gospel.

That's essentially telling a sinner, who is dead in trespasses and sins, and is hard-wired to do nothing but sin, with no Holy Spirit...

First you must stop sinning, then you can be forgiven of your sins.

Please show me where anyone preached the Gospel, and said repent of your sins.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

Re the commandments. Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.
Mathew 5:17

The Law is not abolished. We say it's nailed to the cross, or maybe sin was nailed to the cross, or maybe our sin debt was nailed - it could be argued. Law died with Jesus and with us when we became born again because we are not longer under the DOMINION of the Law. We need not fear it because the Holy Spirit will guide us in understanding it and help us to keep it, without fear but because we WANT to. We want to because we are a friend to God. We're no longer under Law but under Grace. O.C. vs N.C. Pretty much what Reba said very nicely in post no. 7

I agree, the law has not been abolished, it still speaks loudly. But what does he mean when he came to fulfill the law? Did it necessarily mean that he fulfilled all the requirements of the law? That could be open for debate. But Jesus was the fulfillment of the law, for Moses did speak of Him.

John 5:46-47
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Acts 3:22-23
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Doing the Will of the Father. What is the will of the Father? Mathew 7:21
The will of the Father is to BELIEVE in His Son.

Not only to believe in His Son, but to hear His words. Love one another. Forgive one another. Be merciful, and you shall receive mercy.

Micah 6:6-8
Wherewith shall I come before the Lord,
and bow myself before the high God?
shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves of a year old?
Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
or with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good;
and what doth the Lord require of thee,
but to do justly, and to love mercy,
and to walk humbly with thy God.

 

[Brother Mike]

Hi Chopper

Good thread. As always.

Re the commandments. Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.
Mathew 5:17

The Law is not abolished. We say it's nailed to the cross, or maybe sin was nailed to the cross, or maybe our sin debt was nailed - it could be argued. Law died with Jesus and with us when we became born again because we are not longer under the DOMINION of the Law. We need not fear it because the Holy Spirit will guide us in understanding it and help us to keep it, without fear but because we WANT to. We want to because we are a friend to God. We're no longer under Law but under Grace. O.C. vs N.C. Pretty much what Reba said very nicely in post no. 7

Doing the Will of the Father. What is the will of the Father? Mathew 7:21
The will of the Father is to BELIEVE in His Son.
Ah. But what does "believe" mean? Does it mean to just know with the mind that Jesus existed and He said a few things we should do? No. It means much more than that. Believe in the Greeks language used to write the N.T. meant to believe with the mind but also to believe with the heart and the will. To agree to, to understand, to follow, to adhere to. It means to believe with your mind, your heart and your soul.
Remind you of something?
Mathew 22:37
Love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

So to believe in the Son is to do the will of the Father
To do the will of the Father is to BELIEVE in the Son

Just before Mathew 7:21 Jesus was explaining about knowing a tree by its fruit, good fruit and bad fruit.
Sounds like we're asked to bear good fruit and that's doing the will of the Father.

You bring up divorce. I'm hating divorce these days. A friend with two divorced daughers with kids.
Another one with a divorced daughter with an 11 yr old. How do you think kids like extended families?
So, yeah. Howard and Denise. Easy to talk the talk - more difficult to walk the walk.

But WHO walks the walk? We all fall, we all sin, we all fall short of the mark.
But some effort must be made.
How much effort our we willing to make?
Is there a limit?

Wondering

It's not a good thread. You mentioned the key though.
Mat_7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(Mat 22:37-40 KJV)

How many commandments are there? does love steal? Does love bare false witness? The thread has taken flesh natural things and has removed the real experience and power of a born again person. Does love hate their brother?

What about marriage? Love your wife as Christ loves the Church. Any confusion there?

We have taken the Real and powerful, reducing them to a think you are saved acts of flesh and keeping at least one ordinances which has even been abolished by the observance of days and feast.

If the tree is not producing fruit, the Tree is not walking in what was put in, the Love of God that would always do the will of God and doing to others as they would have them do unto them.

So I steal and get caught. What do I really want? To be punished? No, to have mercy, and by the power of being born again I will give mercy to the one who stole from me. Can not God replace it? Did He not say He would reward you back?

Rollo called me the other day, most likely to see how I was doing. He admits his short comings, but do I get a call from anyone else here but JLB once or twice and Edward? I talk with only a couple, nobody cares. I get banned with no thought to how I feel, no consideration I might be right.

That isn't what you said Chopper.
In the OP, you said if anyone claims to be a Christian, they must obey the 10 Commandments.
That's what I answered to.
Now you're changing things?

Sorry man, busy with other ministry work. Call you soon. God bless, keep those 10 commandments or else..............

Mike.

 

[th1b.taylor]

This thread is about how to live a holy life, a life, a life every Pew Whale will learn or they will go to eternity lost and condemned. I read my way through and there are some very thought provoking points made here.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's not a good thread. You mentioned the key though.
Mat_7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(Mat 22:37-40 KJV)

How many commandments are there? does love steal? Does love bare false witness? The thread has taken flesh natural things and has removed the real experience and power of a born again person. Does love hate their brother?

What about marriage? Love your wife as Christ loves the Church. Any confusion there?

We have taken the Real and powerful, reducing them to a think you are saved acts of flesh and keeping at least one ordinances which has even been abolished by the observance of days and feast.

If the tree is not producing fruit, the Tree is not walking in what was put in, the Love of God that would always do the will of God and doing to others as they would have them do unto them.

So I steal and get caught. What do I really want? To be punished? No, to have mercy, and by the power of being born again I will give mercy to the one who stole from me. Can not God replace it? Did He not say He would reward you back?

Rollo called me the other day, most likely to see how I was doing. He admits his short comings, but do I get a call from anyone else here but JLB once or twice and Edward? I talk with only a couple, nobody cares. I get banned with no thought to how I feel, no consideration I might be right.


Sorry man, busy with other ministry work. Call you soon. God bless, keep those 10 commandments or else..............

Mike.

Hi Brother Mike,
Haven't seen you around. Nice to have you back.
Why isn't this a good thread? It's a very good thread. Here's why:
Some Christians think they could do whatever they want to and put it under the blood.
Some Christians think they're still living under the Law or Old Covenant - when God said to the Jews in the desert of Sinai " Do This and You Will Be My People." Exodus 19:5 So they feel that to please God they must do everything just right and not miss one dot or iota. Mathew 5:18

Both are wrong! We can't do whatever we want. Jesus gave specific instrucitions. He wouldn't have said we have to do so many things unless we have to really do them. In fact, Jesus made the Law MORE difficult, He said if you HATE your brother you have already MURDERED him. Heavy stuff. So He raised the bar. He said to love your enemies. The Jews hated the Romans. He wanted them to pray for the Romans? I'm thinking of the parable of the two sons. Mathew 21:28-31 Which son did the Father's will?
The one WHO WENT. Even though he had originally said he wouldn't.

So what's the difference? Jesus also said in Mathew 12:8 that He is the Lord of the Sabbath. He has authority, He commands, He decides. He's in charge of the New Covenant. If we accept the N.C., He will also give us the strength to follow the Law. Through love, not through force. And if we're failing in something, He has already filled that Law for us and we are already forgiven (when asked) for He died for all sins - past, present and future.

I think we're saying the same thing. 613 commandments - 10 commandments - 2 commandments.
If you keep those two, you keep all the 10. The others have REALLY been abolished! (civil and ceremonial laws).

I think understanding this concept - which I may not be able to explain properly - could really free us up in our devotion to God.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Repent of your sins is not the Gospel.

That's essentially telling a sinner, who is dead in trespasses and sins, and is hard-wired to do nothing but sin, with no Holy Spirit...

First you must stop sinning, then you can be forgiven of your sins.

Please show me where anyone preached the Gospel, and said repent of your sins.

JLB

Your reply above is for Malachai.

I just want to say that your reply goes to the concept that many have backwards.

I'll hear that "I'm not pure enough to come to God."

Well, you don't make yourself perfect and THEN come to God.
You come to God and THEN He'll make you "perfect".

But repent and be converted is right. Acts 3:19 is the scripture Malachai gave.
One of the steps to being born again is to repent of your sins. Turn away from them and walk in the other direction. This is correct Christian theology. Jesus said "Go and sin no more." If you don't sin anymore, it means that you're sorry you ever did. (not that we ever stop sinning).

Do you not agree? Could we sin and not be sorry?

Wondering

 

[JohnDB]

splane Lucy

Transgressions are ongoing sins. Often unknowingly to the person committing them. But sometimes known. The problem is that the person who is committing them often know no other course of action to keep from committing that sin. They are trapped by their limitations.

God had said before that the adultery committed by Put-Away wives was to be attached to the husbands. But....unsure about it in all cases.

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree, the law has not been abolished, it still speaks loudly. But what does he mean when he came to fulfill the law? Did it necessarily mean that he fulfilled all the requirements of the law? That could be open for debate. But Jesus was the fulfillment of the law, for Moses did speak of Him.

Hi EZ
To fulfill. To make perfect. To complete. The Law is made perfect and complete in Him. We can't keep the Law - we won't be judged by it. The parts we fail or don't keep, He will cover for us. The O.C. Laws were written on stone - they could not be kept. No power to. The N.T. Law of grace is written on the heart. There not only is POWER to "keep" the Laws with the help of the Holy Spirit, but we will not be judged by the Law but by our belief in Jesus, the Son, John 17:1-7
Also Hebrews - Jesus is the superior High Priest. He makes the perfect sacrifice required by God for the forgiveness of sins.

John 5:46-47
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Acts 3:22-23
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Not only to believe in His Son, but to hear His words. Love one another. Forgive one another. Be merciful, and you shall receive mercy.

Micah 6:6-8
Wherewith shall I come before the Lord,
and bow myself before the high God?
shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves of a year old?
Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
or with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good;
and what doth the Lord require of thee,
but to do justly, and to love mercy,
and to walk humbly with thy God.

I think we agree on your above comments. Jesus is that promised Prophet that will be raised from among His people. We must listen to Him. I did point out what the word "believe" mean in Greek in my post no. 21.

It's like this. If you're sitting in a theater and someone screams fire because there really is one, you do have to GET UP AND LEAVE, you have to take action. If you HEAR and BELIEVE there's a fire but just sit there, you will get hurt. Hear and Believe in the N.T. means you understand and take action.
Mathew 11:15

In different verses God says (in the O.T.) that He does not want sacrifice, but a contrite heart. You quoted Micah Also
Hosea 6:6
Proberbs 21:3
Psalms 51:16-17

How to have that contrite heart? By Jesus being the last, final and perfect sacrifice - that we could behold with our eyes and forever have that imprint in our mind and heart so that more will not be necessary and we could present ourselves a living sacrifice with the help of the Holy Spirit. Romans 12:1

Wondering

 

[JLB]

Your reply above is for Malachai.

I just want to say that your reply goes to the concept that many have backwards.

I'll hear that "I'm not pure enough to come to God."

Well, you don't make yourself perfect and THEN come to God.
You come to God and THEN He'll make you "perfect".

But repent and be converted is right. Acts 3:19 is the scripture Malachai gave.
One of the steps to being born again is to repent of your sins. Turn away from them and walk in the other direction. This is correct Christian theology. Jesus said "Go and sin no more." If you don't sin anymore, it means that you're sorry you ever did. (not that we ever stop sinning).

Do you not agree? Could we sin and not be sorry?

Wondering

Yes. Repent.

Not repent of your sins.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

EZRider

You say to Chopper:
So without going into details or specifics, could you boil down the most common reasons that you find that couples use to justify their divorce. Then from those reasons, if we were to look at them from the standpoint of law versus grace, Could we say that most of the reasons for justification could be classified as "legalism." Has anyone divorced for being to Graceful?

I kind of hope he's getting at the idea that we're to follow the rules always, not just when it suits us.
What reason could there be to justify divorce? When there are children involved, especially.
When someone gets married it's forever. Do words not mean anything anymore? I wish Chopper had picked a different example. People get hurt when bringing this up because many have divorced or are having problems and are considering it. There's a lot to consider here. Like, it takes two to tango. My friend's daughter's husband left the daugther. What could the daughter do? They're not christian - but it happens with christians too. Easy to feel the pressure of this world.

So it feels like a personal thing, something that affects just two people and no one else. What business is it of anyone if two want a divorce? But it ends up affecting everyone, the whole of society, not just the children involved. 1 Corinthians 12:26

Jesus gave the prescription for any sin in Mathew 18:15-17 But I've never personally been in a church like this. In fact, most churches are afraid to say too much for fear of hurting the person or persons involved.

And why would this situation be any different from many others? It's all the same. To God all is sin. Someone here brought up the word Transgression. Transgression, sin, what's the difference? To a pure God who sines in perfection, sin is sin - all is hurtful to Him, that's why it's so dangerous to live under the Law. It's impossible to keep. That's why grace is all important. Only His love for us could save us - we can't save ourselves.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. Repent.

Not repent of your sins.

JLB

What do you mean?

You repent once. You're walking in the wrong direction, you repent, you change your direction and walk towards God. Okay.

After that you're SORRY for your sins.
Is this what you mean?

Wondering

 

[JLB]

Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

This is the Gospel that was preached by Jesus Christ.

Repent is the command of the Gospel.

Not repent of your sins.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.


Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Peter did not say "repent of your sins".

A person can not "stop sinning" without the born again new Nature empowered by the Holy Spirit.


The way we are granted this, is by repenting, which means turning away from Satan and his kingdom, and turning to God, and confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in orderto turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Acts 26:15-18

Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.
The Gospel is God's call to humanity, to "come out of hiding", in darkness, and to come into the light, the kingdom of light.

JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

This is the Gospel that was preached by Jesus Christ.

Repent is the command of the Gospel.

Not repent of your sins.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.


Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Peter did not say "repent of your sins".

A person can not "stop sinning" without the born again new Nature empowered by the Holy Spirit.

The way we are granted this, is by repenting, which means turning away from Satan and his kingdom, and turning to God, and confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in orderto turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Acts 26:15-18

Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.
The Gospel is God's call to humanity, to "come out of hiding", in darkness, and to come into the light, the kingdom of light.

JLB

Perfect JLB.

Yes, I've said many times that we're to decide whom we will serve.
So when I said the person is walking in the WRONG direction, it meant toward the world, the evil one, then they repent, turn around and go toward God. There are only TWO choices.

So repenting is, by definition, for the unbeliever.
(although the word is used incorrectly many times).

Once you're a believer, you are sorry for your sins and confess them. You've already changed direction.

Wondering

 

[Roro1972]

I sure like it here and generally learn from everyone. In this thread it appears two paths have been described to follow.
and in those two paths presented I find certain pieces in each I disagree with.

 

[Chopper]

Chopper, how are doing my friend? I hope your health has been improving.

When it comes to walking after the spirit, and more so to following the commandment of God, I would first have ask if these were the commandment of Moses or the Commandment that Jesus gave us, because there is a huge difference between the two (I will touch on that more later). Sin and Death come by the law. Grace and truth came by Christ (John 1:17). The Commandment given by Moses was unto condemnation unto death, or as Paul called it the ministration of death (2 Cor 3:7). The Commandment the Jesus gave us was to forgive one another (Luke 6:37).

Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. That perfection is found in grace and mercy. It is the devil that uses the authority of the Law to condemnation, for the devil is your accuser (Rev 12:10). Or as Jesus said, you have one that accuses you, even Moses in whom you trust (John 5:45).

Since you brought in marriage and divorce to reflect upon in discussing this subject, And from the example you began to present, I would assume that you have done your share of marriage counseling. So without going into details or specifics, could you boil down the most common reasons that you find that couples use to justify their divorce. Then from those reasons, if we were to look at them from the standpoint of law versus grace, Could we say that most of the reasons for justification could be classified as "legalism." Has anyone divorced for being to Graceful?

Hey my favorite Biker. I have done a lot of marriage counselling over the years and adultery is at the top of the list for reasons. I intend to blend the two Commandments, Moses' and Jesus' because I see patterns godly living in all of them. I'm not going legalistic, that would be wrong. The "old man" of the Law is dead. The "New man" of the Spirit looks at those Commandments and says, I like each one as a standard to live by and therefore sin will not have much of an allure to me. LOL graceful? hmm, NOT!