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Soma-Sight was wrong

Gendou Ikari said:
We[Humans] never asked to be created. We never asked to be born sinful. If the Christian God was really Loving He would understand our dilemma and not give up on us after death.
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That's right ! Christian God was really loving that's why He sent His own Son for your salvation? What is your point?

Gendou Ikari said:
I would never give up on a daughter or son of mine who has disobeyed me time and time again.
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So you will not give a freedom for your child even he/she wish to stay away from you isn't?
 
While I believe that most religions have one origin - save for some which are complete fabrications, there can be only one true religion or none at all.
 
While I believe that most religions have one origin - save for some which are complete fabrications, there can be only one true religion or none at all.
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All religions are false.

Only the person of Jesus Christ solves the questions of life and death.
 
Congrats to you Soma, and may you grow in God's Word and Truth.

God's Grace is truly Amazing.

To the naysayers, I can only offer prayers that the blinders will fall from your eyes before you learn more about Hell than you ever bargained for.

All are called, but, sadly, not all will answer.

Blessings all around.
 
Gendou Ikari said:
We[Humans] never asked to be created. We never asked to be born sinful. If the Christian God was really Loving He would understand our dilemma and not give up on us after death.
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Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Adam's tried to cover his butt by blaming Eve AND God.
"whom thou gavest to be with me"
"she gave me of the tree"

Didn't work for Adam and I don't think it'll work for you either Gendou Ikari.
 
This is basically erroneous thinking. I don't understand this Christian impulse to blanket the so called mistake of one man and woman onto the entire human race. Adam sinned, okay. Adamn gets punished, okay. Seems like justice to me. I was told God is Justice.

If a person of a given ethnic identity decides to do something against the law, the courts never punish his or her entire race! No, the person is dealt with on an individual level. To condemn the person's entire ethnicity for one person's crime is not just. Yet for one person's mistakes, God condemns the entire human race. Sounds a slight bit over zealous if you ask me, and to answer to it requires such an extensive theological dance that its no wonder the world is having difficulties swalling the doctrine.

Sin is disobedience against God, yet why then is it spoken of as this contagious disease? Or some kind of genetic birth defect that each parent can't help but pass onto their child?

The fact is, we are told, that WE HAVE NO CHOICE in being sinners. We are born sinners because of someone elses mistake. Why should I be accountable for what someone else has done? Why does God not give each of us a fair chance?

Gendou Ikari is highlighting the fundamental injustice and unfairness of the Christian doctrine. God creates us as sinners, sin, from the outset after Adam, is outside the realm of human decision, at least initially.
 
Yes AHIMSA. You either carry the spirit of a contrite heart with you after you die or a rebellious one. Blaming God won't help one's case I don't think.

I'll bet you didn't like the judgment of the Great Flood either. And I'll admit if it was me to judge I would have had Adam pay restitution for recieving stolen goods, Eve do community service for stealing the apple (First offense you know) and the serpent 90 days probation for aiding and abetting.
 
We can't blame God for the sins that we commit. We can, it seems, blame God for that fact that we are sinners (because he creates in us a sinful nature).

If it is not God who creates this sinful nature in us, who then? Adam? I would be astonished to think that Adam has as much power as to corrupt the entire human race by a single act.

As I said, Christianity speaks of sin as a degenerate genetic condition. The fact that we are sinners is not our choice, and this in itself lies in stark contrast to the principle of free-will.

The obvious question that emerges is this: If we are born corrupted (hence the ability to not sin is not a possiblity) how can we call that free will?

Does free will not imply that we must begin in a state of neutrality? That we must, at some point as an individual, exist in a state devoid of corruption so that to become corrupted (and hence be accountable for that corruption) is decision that lies within our own hands?

This is why original sin doesn't make sense...
 
AHIMSA said:
Does free will not imply that we must begin in a state of neutrality?
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No it doesn't.
What makes a good card player a good card player? Are all players dealt the same hand? Through freewill one can make the proper decisions or make wrong ones. That's entirely up to the player isn't it?
We are all born with strengths, weaknesses, handicaps, talents ... in short each is of a unique constitution for good or bad, for better or for worse. Not all people are beautiful, not all are intellectual and not all will have the same desires, ambitions, needs and wants. To think we must all begin on a level playing field is ludicrous and flies in the face of reality.

Got a talent for good? Use it. Got a weakness? Deal with it instead of making excuse. Human interest stories abound displaying those who use their freewill to conquer just about anything. So here we see motivation at work. Depends what you want and how much you want it. Leveling the playing field wouldn't do any good if the motivation isn't there in the first place.

What do you seek AHIMSA?
 
AHISMA

Try as you might to intellectualize away the truth, Truth abounds in God's Word.

You rail against a perceived injustice and fail to see the Grace of God.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

5:16
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
I'm not denying that one is not excercising degrees of free-will, often strong degrees, outside of a neutral state.

My question is short and to the point: If God does not give us a choice in sinning (because of original sin) then how can we be held accountable to it?
 
Though we be sinful, by nature, we most certainly have a choice to turn away from sin, or to revel in it.

For example:

David saw the beauty of Bathsheba.

He had a choice to turn on his heel and depart the roof and do nothing more.

He chose to send for her.

The rest is history.
 
AHIMSA said:
I'm not denying that one is not excercising degrees of free-will, often strong degrees, outside of a neutral state.

My question is short and to the point: If God does not give us a choice in sinning (because of original sin) then how can we be held accountable to it?
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How is God holding you accountable if you truly accept Christ? It's not like God didn't give you an out. He gave His only begotten Son. What more do you want AHIMSA?
 
Gendou Ikari is highlighting the fundamental injustice and unfairness of the Christian doctrine. God creates us as sinners, sin, from the outset after Adam, is outside the realm of human decision, at least initially.
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I am starting to realize that life is not fair and why should it not make sense that you are damned initially by default. ;-)
 
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