Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[GodsGrace]

Goodness Wondering! Jesus tells you the reason (singular) He spoke to them in parables. What I said the reason was matches what He said. Your reasons don’t. And you didn’t support any of the 4 with Jesus’ teaching on why He spoke to them in parables. But I did.




Who said anything about us? I didn’t.



Got any Scripture for your reasons?

Here’s THE reason (singular) Jesus gave for why as compared to yours:

And the disciples came up and said to him, “ Why do you speak to them in parables?” ...​

For this reason I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand, and with reference to them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says, “ You will listen carefully and will never understand, and you will look closely and will never perceive.​

Matthew 13:10,13-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 13:10,13-14&version=LEB



It’s the best Jesus could do huh??? What about His interpretation which He gave His disciples privately, isn’t that better?

What about the prophecy??? Was Jesus trying His best to make them understand so the prophecy in Isaiah 6 would NOT be fulfilled or does the prophecy say they will never understand?



Everyone needs Christ.


So it’s interpretation is meant to be personal eisegesis not Jesus’ exegesis. Have you thought your reason here through carefully???

And he answered and said to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to those people it has not been granted.​

Matthew 13:11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 13:11&version=LEB

Had understanding been granted to everyone?

Well. Finally I must confess.
I've studied theology.
That means getting the nose out of scripture to find out what those who have studied the Bible and it's culture have to say about it.

So, yes. No scripture for you...
Just some of the reasons Jesus spoke in parables.

 

[GodsGrace]

amen - i see it the same as you do - i guess what i see here is those who are departing from the faith are hypocrites and liars with seared consciences - so for me that really calls into question if they were ever saved - i have a hard time believing that a hypocrite liar with a seared conscience could ever be saved - they sound like the people Jesus said He never knew

The above is not how @ chessman understands leaving the faith.

You understand it the same way JLB and I do.

 

[chessman]

what are they receiving with joy?

Well, it certainly wasn’t the Gospel. That’s anachronistic. Jesus hadn’t even died and rose yet. But it tells us what they received, the word about the Kingdom of God found in Isaiah 6. He quoted it for a reason:

In the year of the death of Uzziah the king, I saw the Lord sitting on a high and raised throne, and the hem of his robe was filling the temple. Seraphs were standing above him. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And the one called to the other and said, “Holy, holy, holy is Yahweh of hosts! The whole earth is full of his glory.”​

Isaiah 6:1-3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Isaiah 6:1-3&version=LEB

It’s about what it says it’s about. The Earth being filled with Yahweh’s glory (Emanuel, King of Kings). Like all the Jews, including initially His disciples, they were looking for an earthly Kingdom, not a Godly one. They thought it joyous to get back to their former state and kick the Romans out of their land. When they discovered that’s not what Jesus was there for at His first coming, they fell away from their joy.

not the Savior - something else

Yep. They wanted a triumphant earthly king, not what God had in store for them at that time:

Then I said, “Until when, Lord?” And he said, “Until the cities lie wasted without inhabitant, and houses without people, and the land is ruined and a waste, and Yahweh sends the people far away, and the abandonment is great in the midst of the land.​

Isaiah 6:11-12 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Isaiah 6:11-12&version=LEB

they have no root - so how can they be saved?

They cannot, without Him.

And even if only a tenth part remain, again she will be destroyed like a terebinth or like an oak, which although felled, a tree stump remains in them. The seed of holiness will be her tree stump.”​

Isaiah 6:13 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Isaiah 6:13&version=LEB

​

it doesn't say they believed Jesus is the Son of God Whom God raised from the dead

Of course it doesn’t. That would have been anachronistic at that time.

only the one with understanding persevered and bore fruit

Yep. And here’s the kicker many people don’t like though (as we’ve just seen):

And he answered and said to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to those people it has not been granted.​

Matthew 13:11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 13:11&version=LEB

Yep, without God granting someone understanding of the mysteries of the Kingdom, it just ain’t gonna happen.

i see this as someone who didn't get saved

Yep. Not to mention it doesn’t say they were ever saved, yet it’s ‘one of the best ...’.

For goodness sake, why don’t people believe Jesus:

For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.​

Matthew 13:12 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 13:12&version=LEB

If they would have been granted understanding, “indeed” they would have been given more. But those without understanding, even their joy is taken away.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

The Bible is really only for God's people, not for the unsaved.

Who ever got saved by reading the word? ... Not many!
Think a Muslim understands the NT? ... No way!
Spiritual Truth only comes via spiritual revelation from God.

Say what now? You're joking right?
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Who doesn't get saved through the Word?

 

[chessman]

The above is not how @ chessman understands leaving the faith.

With all do respect, you’re wrong about that . And I’m in a much better position to speak for chessman than you are.

Here’s two examples of what Paul and I both think it means to “depart from the faith” in this sentence:

Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of liars, who are seared in their own conscience, who forbid marrying and insist on abstaining from foods that God created for sharing in with thankfulness by those who believe and who know the truth, because everything created by God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thankfulness, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.​

1 Timothy 4:1-5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:1-5&version=LEB

 

[GodsGrace]

Say what now? You're joking right?
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Who doesn't get saved through the Word?

Try going to a college class that reads the biblexas literature.

They come away as atheists.

1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[GodsGrace]

With all do respect, you’re wrong about that . And I’m in a much better position to speak for chessman than you are.

Here’s two examples of what Paul and I both think it means to “depart from the faith” in this sentence:

Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of liars, who are seared in their own conscience, who forbid marrying and insist on abstaining from foods that God created for sharing in with thankfulness by those who believe and who know the truth, because everything created by God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thankfulness, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.​

1 Timothy 4:1-5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:1-5&version=LEB

I won't argue with you, but it's Truthfrees that I believe is misunderstanding you.

If you agree with HIS post, then you agree with JLB and myself.

 

[JLB]

they have no root - so how can they be saved? - they receive the word immediately with joy and then they immediately fall away

No the teaching doesn’t say immediately fell away.

It says in time of tribulation or persecution, which could be 3 months or three years or 10 years.


They sprouted forth and came up.

They received the message of the kingdom with joy.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


again


But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


When the persecution arises, then immediately he stumbles; falls away.


The reason he is being persecuted is because he is a Christian; a believer.



JLB

 

[JLB]

amen - i see it the same as you do - i guess what i see here is those who are departing from the faith are hypocrites and liars with seared consciences

The reason the scripture gives for them departing from the faith is, they listened to doctrines of demons and deceiving spirits.


The fact remains that they departed from the faith in Christ.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-5


That’s why false doctrine is so dangerous.




JLB

 

[ezra]

Say what now? You're joking right?
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Who doesn't get saved through the Word?

this thread is going so far south so full of opinions both sides has good points... but yet neither will concede

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Try going to a college class that reads the biblexas literature.

They come away as atheists.

1 Corinthians 2:14

It is incredible that you use that verse because a close family member was saved when she read that verse with a friend who had been witnessing to her. Yes she had ears to hear but it was God's word that got through.
And the reason they come out atheists is because they are focused on knowledge, not understanding. And most probably go into the class looking for excuses not to believe in Christ.
The beauty of the Gospel and salvation is that anyone can get it ..there is no minimum IQ required

Further, there is no test or process or endurance challenge believers have to go through to be saved. It is a one time transaction. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit, we may not be faithful but praise God he is faithful and cannot lie

I'm sure you are familiar with the thief on the cross? Either Jesus lied to him or salvation is through faith in Christ only. Thief couldn't earn it, prove it, endure it, or turn it into a process.

 

[chessman]

they sound like the people Jesus said He never knew

If you agree with HIS post, then you agree with @JLB and myself.

So you and JLB both believe that the people Paul talked about in 1 Timothy 4:1-5 were never known by Jesus?

 

[ezra]

because false doctrine is promoted

so it would be your position osas is false doctrine and then those who hold to osas would say you have false doctrine i have christian friends on both sides of the fence and i have attended services with all of them at each church

 

[GodsGrace]

It is incredible that you use that verse because a close family member was saved when she read that verse with a friend who had been witnessing to her. Yes she had ears to hear but it was God's word that got through.
And the reason they come out atheists is because they are focused on knowledge, not understanding. And most probably go into the class looking for excuses not to believe in Christ.
The beauty of the Gospel and salvation is that anyone can get it ..there is no minimum IQ required

Further, there is no test or process or endurance challenge believers have to go through to be saved. It is a one time transaction. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit, we may not be faithful but praise God he is faithful and cannot lie

I'm sure you are familiar with the thief on the cross? Either Jesus lied to him or salvation is through faith in Christ only. Thief couldn't earn it, prove it, endure it, or turn it into a process.

You bring up a lot.
I'm on a phone and will reply tomorrow.

 

[GodsGrace]

so it would be your position osas is false doctrine and then those who hold to osas would say you have false doctrine i have christian friends on both sides of the fence and i have attended services with all of them at each church

Only one could be right.
OSAS did NOT exist till 1,500....
Why?

 

[JLB]

so it would be your position osas is false doctrine and then those who hold to osas would say you have false doctrine i have christian friends on both sides of the fence and i have attended services with all of them at each church

Okay.

Is a person who is “in Christ” born again?



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

So you and JLB both believe that the people Paul talked about in 1 Timothy 4:1-5 were never known by Jesus?

I was discussing about the meaning of leaving the faith.
Read the posts again.....
Plus, we should end this. I might have broken a forum rule.

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay.

Is a person who is “in Christ” born again?



JLB

What an important concept!
The NT becomes crystal clear when one understands this simple teaching.
Can't post verses,,,,so many.
John 3:3

 

[JLB]

So you and JLB both believe that the people Paul talked about in 1 Timothy 4:1-5 were never known by Jesus?

They departed from the faith in Christ, because they gave heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.



JLB

 

[JLB]

What an important concept!
The NT becomes crystal clear when one understands this simple teaching.
Can't post verses,,,,so many.
John 3:3

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


We must continue to remain connected to Christ, or be in danger of being cast into the fire and burned.


In Christ = Eternal life.


Removed from Christ, depart from Christ, disconnect from Christ = cast into the fire and burned.



This scripture alone demonstrates that OSAS is unbiblical.




JLB