Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

[vocalyocal]

Are you saying that God sends people to Heaven or Hell based on whether the prayer they prayed was heartfelt?

there are two kinds of repentance, one leads to eternal life the other is worldly repentance, it leads to death (see Corinthians 7:10


10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.



Godly repentance doesn't leave a sinner looking back for the next opportunity to do that sin again, doesn't leave them knowing they will do it again

 

[vocalyocal]

Amazing how you fail to understand that a as spirit beings, they have no soul. The material I've posted is more than ample from which to draw your conclusions in agreement with mine, but if you choose not to, that's no skin off my nose. Done here.

also what about your claim that angels have no physical bodies, care to elaborate on how scripture conflicts with your theory

 

[Deborah13]

please think about this!.......Is it your belief that unsaved people without the Holy Spirit can SAFELY cast out demons, can they prophecy in the Spirit of God? can they perform MIRACLES! in HIS NAME!

And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

I think you should!.......notice what Jesus said "for he that is not against us is for us"

Was this man saved? Did he have the Holy Spirit? and if he did where did he get Him from?

IMO He was not saved. He did NOT have the Holy Spirit.

 

[WIP]

Why would it matter? Do you really think belief alone, no matter how convicting, is enough? That everyone goes to Heaven or Hell based on whatever their conviction of what they happen to believe.

I suppose it would matter greatly on what one believes.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

also what about your claim that angels have no physical bodies, care to elaborate on how scripture conflicts with your theory

There is no Scripture that conflicts with that fact, not "theory."

Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have" (Luke 24:39). The Bible does, however, make it clear that angels can only be in one place at a time. They must have some localized presence.Angels can take on the appearance of men when the occasion demands. How else could some “entertain angels unaware” (Hebrews 13:2)? On the other hand, their appearance is sometimes in dazzling white and blazing glory (Matthew 28:2-4)

Since angels are spirits rather than physical beings, they don't have to be visible at all (Colossians 1:16). Elisha once prayed that his servant would see the armies of angels surrounding the city, and the young man discovered that he had overlooked a lot of invisible beings (2 Kings 6:17). When angels do appear, they generally appear in the form of men. In Genesis 18, Abraham welcomed three angelic guests who appeared at first to be nothing more than some travelers. In the following chapter, two angels went to Sodom where they were assumed to be simply a pair of human visitors.

With the possible exception of one debatable passage in Zechariah 5:9, angels always appear as males rather than females (Mark 16:5). Sometimes an angel appears to be a man with unusual features. Daniel saw an angel with arms and legs resembling polished metal and precious stones, and a face like lightning (Daniel 10:5-6). The angel that rolled back the stone from Christ's tomb was radiating dazzling light (Matthew 28:3; Luke 24:4). The book of Revelation describes some highly unusual beings who may be a variety of angel in Revelation 4:6-8.

They are stronger than man, but not omnipotent (Psalm 103:20; 2 Peter 2:11). They are greater than man in knowledge, but not omniscient (2 Samuel 14:20; Matthew 24:36). They are more noble than man, but not omnipresent (Daniel 9:21-23, 10:10-14).

 

[Knotical]

also what about your claim that angels have no physical bodies, care to elaborate on how scripture conflicts with your theory

Be careful where you take this, considering the thread you started on this topic was recently closed.

 

[4Jesus]

there are two kinds of repentance, one leads to eternal life the other is worldly repentance, it leads to death (see Corinthians 7:10


10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.



Godly repentance doesn't leave a sinner looking back for the next opportunity to do that sin again, doesn't leave them knowing they will do it again

What I meant is that some people just aren't very emotional so someone can have a very strong, sincere faith that doesn't appear heartfelt. A couple people told me I only have a head knowledge but not a heart knowledge and may not be saved which was very discouraging. Also, I don't think anyone will miss out on salvation because he didn't have a huge amount of faith since Jesus said the faith of a mustard seed can move a mountain.

I agree with you that repentance must be sincere. I think as long as someone truly believes the truth that's been revealed and sincerely repents then he will be saved.

 

[4Jesus]

I suppose it would matter greatly on what one believes.

I think that is very important also.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A couple people told me I only have a head knowledge but not a heart knowledge and may not be saved which was very discouraging.

I would be discouraged, too. I started out in the charismatic movement. They tend to measure spirituality by their emotional response to the truths of God. That bothered me, even though I'm a very emotional person. I eventually learned what true spirituality, that confirmed the faith that produced it, looks like (in addition to other qualities):

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV1984)

This is what we are to strive to produce in accordance with faith in Christ. It's not that there is no place for emotions in a relationship with Christ. It's just that emotions, along with outward religious duty, are a poor and deceitful measure of spirituality by themselves.

I know many Christ rejectors are sure they have the evidence of relationship with God and are, therefore, saved by a God they insist either doesn't exist or is different than the Bible portrays him to be, so the subject requires a little explanation, but fundamentally, it is the character that is growing up into the image of Christ that indicates true salvation.

For the Church, the nature of unstable, shifting, unpredictable, and ever-changing human emotions, that mostly depend on circumstances of body and life, alone is a very poor way to measure the grace of God in a person's life (again, not discounting emotions altogether). It is when you can see yourself being conformed to the image and character of God despite the discomforts of body and circumstances that you can be sure that the hope and confidence you have for salvation is real:

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things (the qualities of the Spirit he just listed--see text), you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:10-11 NIV)

Also, I don't think anyone will miss out on salvation because he didn't have a huge amount of faith since Jesus said the faith of a mustard seed can move a mountain.

In regard to the faith to believe that God forgives sins through Christ Jesus I'd say this is not true at all. You have to believe this to the point of being born again. A partial faith about Christ won't do that.

This may very well be the fundamental problem in the church today. Lot's of people who know Jesus is the Christ, and who go through many of the outward religious motions, and emotions, of faith, but who haven't truly come to a complete faith and trust in Him. The sin issue never quite gets settled for them with God and they languish outside of the grace of God, but by all worldly appearances they appear devout.

I agree with you that repentance must be sincere. I think as long as someone truly believes the truth that's been revealed and sincerely repents then he will be saved.

...The key being that what the person believes can be seen in what a person who genuinely believes becomes--a new creation that walks by the fruit of the Spirit (more and more).

Lot's of people acknowledge the truth. Few truly surrender their lives to it. That surrender is how we can tell if we truly believe the gospel message. Most twist it, and rationalize it away, and conform it to their own liking and never enter into the transformed life that genuine faith in Christ brings. They will be sorely disappointed on the Day of Wrath.

The increase we bring to the seed and the talent of the Word of God that Christ will be looking for when he returns is the actual deeds of the Spirit, not just lip service or religious duty. You can't be saved on the Day of Wrath holding a fistful of seeds or a few talents of knowledge that you did nothing with. Christ is looking for increase. It's one thing to agree Jesus is the Christ and accept scripture as God given. It's quite another to live it. That's how you bring increase to your knowledge of God. Live it, act on it, according to the fruit of the Spirit. Only genuine, justifying faith can do that.

 

[Mitspa]

I would be discouraged, too. I started out in the charismatic movement. They tend to measure spirituality by their emotional response to the truths of God. That bothered me, even though I'm a very emotional person. I eventually learned what true spirituality, that confirmed the faith that produced it, looks like (in addition to other qualities):

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV1984)

This is what we are to strive to produce in accordance with faith in Christ. It's not that there is no place for emotions in a relationship with Christ. It's just that emotions, along with outward religious duty, are a poor and deceitful measure of spirituality by themselves.

I know many Christ rejectors are sure they have the evidence of relationship with God and are, therefore, saved by a God they insist either doesn't exist or is different than the Bible portrays him to be, so the subject requires a little explanation, but fundamentally, it is the character that is growing up into the image of Christ that indicates true salvation.

For the Church, the nature of unstable, shifting, unpredictable, and ever-changing human emotions, that mostly depend on circumstances of body and life, alone is a very poor way to measure the grace of God in a person's life (again, not discounting emotions altogether). It is when you can see yourself being conformed to the image and character of God despite the discomforts of body and circumstances that you can be sure that the hope and confidence you have for salvation is real:

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things (the qualities of the Spirit he just listed--see text), you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:10-11 NIV)




In regard to the faith to believe that God forgives sins through Christ Jesus I'd say this is not true at all. You have to believe this to the point of being born again. A partial faith about Christ won't do that.

This may very well be the fundamental problem in the church today. Lot's of people who know Jesus is the Christ, and who go through many of the outward religious motions, and emotions, of faith, but who haven't truly come to a complete faith and trust in Him. The sin issue never quite gets settled for them with God and they languish outside of the grace of God, but by all worldly appearances they appear devout.




...The key being that what the person believes can be seen in what a person who genuinely believes becomes--a new creation that walks by the fruit of the Spirit (more and more).

Lot's of people acknowledge the truth. Few truly surrender their lives to it. That surrender is how we can tell if we truly believe the gospel message. Most twist it, and rationalize it away, and conform it to their own liking and never enter into the transformed life that genuine faith in Christ brings. They will be sorely disappointed on the Day of Wrath.

The increase we bring to the seed and the talent of the Word of God that Christ will be looking for when he returns is the actual deeds of the Spirit, not just lip service or religious duty. You can't be saved on the Day of Wrath holding a fistful of seeds or a few talents of knowledge that you did nothing with. Christ is looking for increase. It's one thing to agree Jesus is the Christ and accept scripture as God given. It's quite another to live it. That's how you bring increase to your knowledge of God. Live it, act on it, according to the fruit of the Spirit. Only genuine, justifying faith can do that.

thank you jethro for bringing some truth to this thread, I was just about to purge it from my my list. But I will hang around to see if anyone will respond to your points. Blessings

 

[iLOVE]

there are two kinds of repentance, one leads to eternal life the other is worldly repentance, it leads to death (see Corinthians 7:10


10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.



Godly repentance doesn't leave a sinner looking back for the next opportunity to do that sin again, doesn't leave them knowing they will do it again

The church must teach this what you have posted and what I have posted below.

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
15 Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you. Titus 2:11-15

7 Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God. 1 John 3:7-10

 

[Mitspa]

The church must teach this what you have posted and what I have posted below.

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
15 Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you. Titus 2:11-15

7 Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God. 1 John 3:7-10

Not sure what translation you are using? but you have left out portions and added others? This is the sin of "false witness"

I doubt you are the one God has called to warn the church of sin. He would probably say to many of you guys who love to warn others, "get the log out of your eye, then you can see to help others remove their twig"

 

[vocalyocal]

There is no Scripture that conflicts with that fact, not "theory."

Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have" (Luke 24:39). The Bible does, however, make it clear that angels can only be in one place at a time. They must have some localized presence.Angels can take on the appearance of men when the occasion demands. How else could some “entertain angels unaware” (Hebrews 13:2)? On the other hand, their appearance is sometimes in dazzling white and blazing glory (Matthew 28:2-4)

Since angels are spirits rather than physical beings, they don't have to be visible at all (Colossians 1:16). Elisha once prayed that his servant would see the armies of angels surrounding the city, and the young man discovered that he had overlooked a lot of invisible beings (2 Kings 6:17). When angels do appear, they generally appear in the form of men. In Genesis 18, Abraham welcomed three angelic guests who appeared at first to be nothing more than some travelers. In the following chapter, two angels went to Sodom where they were assumed to be simply a pair of human visitors.

With the possible exception of one debatable passage in Zechariah 5:9, angels always appear as males rather than females (Mark 16:5). Sometimes an angel appears to be a man with unusual features. Daniel saw an angel with arms and legs resembling polished metal and precious stones, and a face like lightning (Daniel 10:5-6). The angel that rolled back the stone from Christ's tomb was radiating dazzling light (Matthew 28:3; Luke 24:4). The book of Revelation describes some highly unusual beings who may be a variety of angel in Revelation 4:6-8.

They are stronger than man, but not omnipotent (Psalm 103:20; 2 Peter 2:11). They are greater than man in knowledge, but not omniscient (2 Samuel 14:20; Matthew 24:36). They are more noble than man, but not omnipresent (Daniel 9:21-23, 10:10-14).

OK you do realize that your own rebutal concludes they can manifest a human body which looks real, even to the point of angels grabbing lot by the arm and leading him out of the city by force.

so whether it is real or manifested, its still undectable to the human eye, whether its real or a manifestation

to say they don't have bodies would not be entirely true, as they can produce them when needed

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

OK you do realize that your own rebutal concludes they can manifest a human body which looks real, even to the point of angels grabbing lot by the arm and leading him out of the city by force.

Yes. Look up "manifests."

 

[vocalyocal]

Be careful where you take this, considering the thread you started on this topic was recently closed.

yeah that was quite ridiculas! we will be using the bible as a gauge for truth, right! either angels can manifest as human looking or they can't, I'm afriad the bible says they can.

It seems there are quite a few people who fail to understand there ARE NO LITTLE GREEN MEN!

 

[vocalyocal]

Yes. Look up "manifests."

1.;clear or obvious to the eye or mind, display or show (a quality, feeling,etc) by ones acts, etc. 2. show plainly to the eye or mind 3.evidence of. 4. reveal itself

which definition do you want to pick

 

[iLOVE]

Not sure what translation you are using? but you have left out portions and added others? This is the sin of "false witness"

I doubt you are the one God has called to warn the church of sin. He would probably say to many of you guys who love to warn others, "get the log out of your eye, then you can see to help others remove their twig"

I am not a hypocrite or called to warn the church! I am the Lord's servant and I make it my goal to please Him with a smile. I understand if you are taught the right thing, you can live the right way. God has a way of looking beyond stuff. Thats why He says, "I look beyond your faults." Everyone can not do that without looking at your faults, looking at what you did, how bad you did it, and who you did it with. God has said, "I have push that aside." I am not worrying about what you are doing...I see your tomorrow. "I call those things that are not as though they already were." This is the the heart of God.

However the scripture is very clear, anyone that practice sin is of the Devil. Jesus forgives sins, not people in sins. They are cut off from God! They have fallen from grace!

 

[vocalyocal]

I am not a hypocrite or called to warn the church! I am the Lord's servant and I make it my goal to please Him with a smile. I understand if you are taught the right thing, you can live the right way. God has a way of looking beyond stuff. Thats why He says, "I look beyond your faults." Everyone can not do that without looking at your faults, looking at what you did, how bad you did it, and who you did it with. God has said, "I have push that aside." I am not worrying about what you are doing...I see your tomorrow. "I call those things that are not as though they already were." This is the the heart of God.

However the scripture is very clear, anyone that practice sin is of the Devil. Jesus forgives sins, not people in sins. They are cut off from God! They have fallen from grace!

He seems to believe he has the only true word of God, I think his great great grand dad probably was saying the same things when the bible was translated from Latin

 

[Mitspa]

I am not a hypocrite or called to warn the church! I am the Lord's servant and I make it my goal to please Him with a smile. I understand if you are taught the right thing, you can live the right way. God has a way of looking beyond stuff. Thats why He says, "I look beyond your faults." Everyone can not do that without looking at your faults, looking at what you did, how bad you did it, and who you did it with. God has said, "I have push that aside." I am not worrying about what you are doing...I see your tomorrow. "I call those things that are not as though they already were." This is the the heart of God.

However the scripture is very clear, anyone that practice sin is of the Devil. Jesus forgives sins, not people in sins. They are cut off from God! They have fallen from grace!

Well first I did not see that it was you Ilove, because I have seen and known the truth of Gods love in you.

I must say that your picture with the heart and sword kinda threw me off.

But having said that, your translation of those scriptures do not represent the truth of what is written in the Greek.

For in the Greek the point is clear that in Him we have no sin and cannot sin.

Speaking of our justified and sinless condition in Christ. In the spirit. There is no way to translate those scriptures to mean that we cant go on sinning. But that we cannot sin.

Now again I do not know your translation, you did not post it?

It could be that you have assumed this understanding, if you have you are in error and are keeping yourself from understanding a great truth of the gospel.

In Christ "in spirit" we are justified from all sin, and blessed is the man "or woman" in whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This is the truth John is speaking of.
The righteousness he speaks of has not changed from what Paul taught! It is the righteousness of faith. Not lawkeeping!

Lawlessness is those who claim to keep the law, yet break the law. Just as Paul wrote. You cannot change the meaning of the terms, nor add or take away words. For when you do, you do harm to yourself and others.

As far as those who seem so worried about other peoples sin? I doubt any of them have been called to the ministry of finding fault in others? They themselves are in the flesh and are judging others by the flesh.

 

[Mitspa]

He seems to believe he has the only true word of God, I think his great great grand dad probably was saying the same things when the bible was translated from Latin

So you think the scriptures were translated from Latin?

Many of you warn and beat others with scripture, and go on trying to teach others? But when a real teacher of Gods word corrects your errors, you get your feelings hurt?

Stop beating up Gods People, stop accusing and teaching things you do not understand. and you will not hear my correction. Feed My Sheep, not beat My Sheep!