(Some) OSASers must believe that God created human robots!

[Stan1953]

Deborah and JLB. It sounds like you're saying what I have believed. That our salvation may be a process rather than a single instant event. Am I understanding correctly?

Pardon the butting in but salvation is an instant process as Paul describes in Rom 10:9-11 NIV
Our walking or working out our salvation is a process as described by James in his book and Paul in Phil 2:12.

 

[agua.]

Deborah and JLB. It sounds like you're saying what I have believed. That our salvation may be a process rather than a single instant event. Am I understanding correctly?

WIP I think we see salvation as a one time event, and ongoing process, and a culmination.

 

[WIP]

Hi Agua. Please elaborate. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself but I have thoughts how you may not be and I want to be sure I am following you.

 

[WIP]

Pardon the butting in but salvation is an instant process as Paul describes in Rom 10:9-11 NIV
Our walking or working out our salvation is a process as described by James in his book and Paul in Phil 2:12.

Hi Stan. I'm not so sure that Paul is describing a single instant event but rather a process over time in the scripture you quoted.

 

[Stan1953]

Hi Stan. I'm not so sure that Paul is describing a single instant event but rather a process over time in the scripture you quoted.

I think if you read it with v8&13, you will see it is.

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah and JLB. It sounds like you're saying what I have believed. That our salvation may be a process rather than a single instant event. Am I understanding correctly?

No, I don't believe our salvation is a process.
We are either justified and sanctified in Christ or we're not.
Can someone reject their salvation, maybe. But if they can and do, they are lost forever. The Holy Spirit will now longer draw or convict them.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[jasonc]

odd, i know a Calvinist that says that salvation is a process. we are saved at the moment we confess Christ for the first time, we are being saved as we grow more like Christ, and we will be saved when are raised from the dead and raised in the new body.

 

[Stan1953]

No, I don't believe our salvation is a process.
We are either justified and sanctified in Christ or we're not.
Can someone reject their salvation, maybe. But if they can and do, they are lost forever. The Holy Spirit will now longer draw or convict them.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Apostasy is not the same as rejecting the good news. I had many chances before I finally accepted Jesus. Heb 6:4-6 NIV, is dealing with apostate Christians.

 

[Deborah13]

I think if you read it with v8&13, you will see it is.

I think I can agree with you on this. I'm not sure why v8 but definitely v13.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without ....

Please forgive this weak rendering but many times I hear Paul as if he is speaking to his children.
Now my love, you are so obedient when I am there with you. You know that the things you do when I am there are the
things that God has for you to do as His children. So don't slack off when I'm not there.

As for with fear and trembling, I can't speak for anyone else but I don't like being chastised by someone who I know has done so much for me and truly loves me. There is nothing worse than looking into loving eyes and to have caused them to have to chastise you. It is embarassing, humiliating, and great sorrow.

 

[Deborah13]

Apostasy is not the same as rejecting the good news. I had many chances before I finally accepted Jesus. Heb 6:4-6 NIV, is dealing with apostate Christians.

When I say, reject their salvation I mean a salvation that they actually had.
Hebrews 6 is talking about people who are already saved.

Rejecting salvation, not receiving the good news, is not the same thing. It certainly is not apostasy. :nod

 

[Deborah13]

odd, i know a Calvinist that says that salvation is a process. we are saved at the moment we confess Christ for the first time, we are being saved as we grow more like Christ, and we will be saved when are raised from the dead and raised in the new body.

I think it's a matter of semantics. I understand what your friend is saying and would agree, even though it is a one time event. Ask them if they were die before they are wholly sanctified if they could lose their salvation.

 

[Stan1953]

I think I can agree with you on this. I'm not sure why v8 but definitely v13.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without ....

Please forgive this weak rendering but many times I hear Paul as if he is speaking to his children.
Now my love, you are so obedient when I am there with you. You know that the things you do when I am there are the
things that God has for you to do as His children. So don't slack off when I'm not there.

As for with fear and trembling, I can't speak for anyone else but I don't like being chastised by someone who I know has done so much for me and truly loves me. There is nothing worse than looking into loving eyes and to have caused them to have to chastise you. It is embarassing, humiliating, and great sorrow.

Sorry, I was addressing Rom 10, not Phil 2....my bad, I should have been clearer. Typing with one hand is a pain. :erm

 

[Stan1953]

When I say, reject their salvation I mean a salvation that they actually had.
Hebrews 6 is talking about people who are already saved.
Rejecting salvation, not receiving the good news, is not the same thing. It certainly is not apostasy. :nod

Ah OK...gotcha. Thanks.

 

[Deborah13]

Sorry, I was addressing Rom 10, not Phil 2....my bad, I should have been clearer. Typing with one hand is a pain. :erm

That's Ok, sorry you have the use of only one hand.

 

[agua.]

Hi Agua. Please elaborate. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself but I have thoughts how you may not be and I want to be sure I am following you.

Sure WIP

Well I see salvation as an event that happens upon repentance and belief and then Yahweh does the business of preparing us for the day of salvation ie. the resurrection into eternal life. I can see this in several scriptures

1. Are saved ~ 1Co 1:17-18 KJV For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2. Being saved ~ Php 1:6-8 KJV Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: (7) Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. (8) For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.

3. Culmination at the Day of salvation ~ 1Co 5:4-5 KJV In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, (5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

As Stan also showed above Romans 10 and Phil 2 show the immediate and ongoning process of salvation imo.

What do you think ?

 

[jasonc]

I think it's a matter of semantics. I understand what your friend is saying and would agree, even though it is a one time event. Ask them if they were die before they are wholly sanctified if they could lose their salvation.

that's a pastor, the grandson of billy graham. I used to listen to him. he isn't on the air where I live. he is also amil

 

[Stan1953]

That's Ok, sorry you have the use of only one hand.

Broke it two weeks ago and new x-rays revealed it was worse than first diagnosed, so I had to go in on Saturday and get four screws put into the bone. Although It was only about 45 minutes, it was painful during and after the process. Today it is much better. The hand that is, not my typing.