(Some) OSASers must believe that God created human robots!

[agua.]

I would like to correlate the reason Peter was not sifted as wheat, directly with the topic of this thread and the scriptures that I have presented.

Jesus said - But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail;...

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, Colossians 1:23

Faith is the substance of things hoped for.

Salvation is what we are hoping for.

If we still have faith, we are in the process of hoping for the salvation of our soul.

Peter said - receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

Paul said it this way - 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Romans 8:22-26

Key phrase - For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?

The reality of what we are hoping for, the salvation of our soul, will be realized at the resurrection when we hear these words -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34

Then and only then will you be saved.

Then and only then will the reality of the salvation of your soul, be fully realized.

Until then you have faith in Christ for salvation.

Until then you are hoping for the salvation of your soul.

I hope and pray that you read carefully what I have written, and please consider what Peter, Paul and Jesus have taught us.


JLB





JLB

Interesting. Jesus prayed that Peter's faith wouldn't fail and notice also He said " and when thou art converted which is interesting.


Luk 22:31-32 KJV And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (32) But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

It seems satan did sift Peter using trials from other people who threatened to expose his connection to Jesus which could have meant big trouble at that time. Jesus knew this would cause Peter to deny Him but He also knew He would return ( be converted ). Satan must have had permission to sift Peter imo else he wouldn't have faced this test and Jesus prayers kept his faith safe. Jesus intercedes in this way for all true believers imo so that our faith will not fail. Otherwise He would be showing favouritism to Peter :biggrin

 

[JLB]

Interesting. Jesus prayed that Peter's faith wouldn't fail and notice also He said " and when thou art converted which is interesting.


Luk 22:31-32 KJV And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (32) But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

It seems satan did sift Peter using trials from other people who threatened to expose his connection to Jesus which could have meant big trouble at that time. Jesus knew this would cause Peter to deny Him but He also knew He would return ( be converted ). Satan must have had permission to sift Peter imo else he wouldn't have faced this test and Jesus prayers kept his faith safe. Jesus intercedes in this way for all true believers imo so that our faith will not fail. Otherwise He would be showing favouritism to Peter :biggrin

It was Peter's faith that Jesus prayed for.

Peter went on to write - the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

Did you read the rest of the post?

The salvation of our soul is what we are hoping for, and will become reality at the resurrection.

Until then we have faith...

As we can see, many trials and testing and circumstances can happen between now and then.

It is those who endure to then end that will be saved.

It is those who are not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:9-11

...when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:7-8


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

It was Peter's faith that Jesus prayed for.

Peter went on to write - the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

Did you read the rest of the post?

The salvation of our soul is what we are hoping for, and will become reality at the resurrection.

Until then we have faith...

As we can see, many trials and testing and circumstances can happen between now and then.

It is those who endure to then end that will be saved.

Gee, that's just what the P in TULIP says. Perseverance of the saints. Those who endure are the saints.

It is those who are not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:9-11

...when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:7-8


JLB

 

[John Zain]

Key phrase - For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope;
for why does one still hope for what he sees?

Today's Christians pay no attention to such verses because ...
the churches have taught their members to only believe the popular verses.
(Edited, ToS 2.4, We will not belittle those who work in the Lords service. Obadiah.)
Then, when people like us come along, we are treated as lunatics,
even to the point of being kicked off Christian forums.

 

[agua.]

It was Peter's faith that Jesus prayed for.

Peter went on to write - the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

Did you read the rest of the post?

The salvation of our soul is what we are hoping for, and will become reality at the resurrection.

Until then we have faith...

As we can see, many trials and testing and circumstances can happen between now and then.

It is those who endure to then end that will be saved.

It is those who are not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:9-11

...when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:7-8


JLB

Yes I read the rest of the post which simply shows the perseverance of the Saints imo. Peter's sifting seems to be an argument supporting this because Jesus prayed that his faith wouldn't fail ( he wouldn't lose faith ) which is precisely what the preservation of the Saints suggests.

When Jesus returns He will find only the faith of the Saints unfortunately.

 

[agua.]

Today's Christians pay no attention to such verses because ...
the churches have taught their members to only believe the popular verses.
(Edited, ToS 2.4, We will not belittle those who work in the Lords service. Obadiah.)
Then, when people like us come along, we are treated as lunatics,
even to the point of being kicked off Christian forums.

Probably because you keep needing to be edited for personal attacks :D I wouldn't say you're a lunatic though.

 

[John Zain]

(Post removed. ToS 2.14, If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public. Obadiah.)

 

[MarkT]

Some) OSASers believe either (1) or (2):
(1) God chose (elected) certain humans to be given His free gift of grace-faith
(2) humans chose who would believe and receive God’s free gift of grace-faith

Either way … these humans are created into born-again Christians.
They are transformed into new creations (2 Cor 5:17).

(Some) OSASers believe these new creations cannot lose their salvation.
No matter what they do! … I.E. they have NO choice in the matter.
Ergo, they actually are human robots! … I.E. they have NO free will.

Where is your fear of the LORD? You want it to be your choice? Eternal destruction or eternal life. It's not a choice. You deny the Lord and he denies you. Then you are cast into the eternal fire.

 

[chessman]

......click on the post number copy the URL and paste in your current posting.
(Some) OSASers must believe that God created human robots!

You can choose this rather manual method or you can choose to use the handy automatic reply button method freely offered here. The manual method is a lot of work and prone to many errors. Clicking the reply button way allows the comPuter to assign and keep track of the post # and you don't have to work to get it right the first time and keep up with it, if it changes. If you manually type the post # and a previous post gets deleted (by mod and/or user deleting it) then the post # changes. It's better To Understand this and Let the Incredibly Powerful computer keep up with all this for you (TULIP).

 

[agua.]

:D good stuff !

 

[chessman]

:biggrin good stuff !

Matt 19:
16 And behold, someone came up to him [Jesus] and said, “Teacher, what good thing must I do so that I will have eternal life?” …
​

[Good question. How did Jesus answer?]

23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I say to you that with difficulty a rich person will enter into the kingdom of heaven! …
​

["OSASers must believe that God created human robots! Hmm,robots?" I think not. Robots don't have a 'difficult time' doing anything good or bad. They just do what they are created to do.]

“With human beings this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” …
​

[OSAS is a beleif that with God all things (includiing their perserverance in salvation) is possible because of God, not us. Our salvation was impossible via our good works. So is our perserverance. Robots don't 'believe' anything. They just do what they are capable of doing. They do not do what they are not capable of doing (what's impossible). And they do it over and over and over, again. Until they break, of course.]

29 And everyone [you who have followed me] ... on account of my name ... will inherit eternal life.​

[Every OSASer that I know (not that I know them all) beleives in their perserverance "on account of His name", not on account of their good works.

"Here are 7 websites that explain why the the doctrine of OSAS is false..."; Hmm,???

Jesus, on many occasions (not just in the above Matt 19 passage), explains why the doctrine of OSAS is true. It's true because;
1) It's on His account (not ours) and
2) with God, all things are possible (not because we do more good things than bad things in life and our balance sheet comes out in the black (versus the red).

 

[JLB]

Matt 19:
16 And behold, someone came up to him [Jesus] and said, “Teacher, what good thing must I do so that I will have eternal life?” …
​

[Good question. How did Jesus answer?]

23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I say to you that with difficulty a rich person will enter into the kingdom of heaven! …
​

["OSASers must believe that God created human robots! Hmm,robots?" I think not. Robots don't have a 'difficult time' doing anything good or bad. They just do what they are created to do.]

“With human beings this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” …
​

[OSAS is a beleif that with God all things (includiing their perserverance in salvation) is possible because of God, not us. Our salvation was impossible via our good works. So is our perserverance. Robots don't 'believe' anything. They just do what they are capable of doing. They do not do what they are not capable of doing (what's impossible). And they do it over and over and over, again. Until they break, of course.]

29 And everyone [you who have followed me] ... on account of my name ... will inherit eternal life.​

[Every OSASer that I know (not that I know them all) beleives in their perserverance "on account of His name", not on account of their good works.

"Here are 7 websites that explain why the the doctrine of OSAS is false..."; Hmm,???

Jesus, on many occasions (not just in the above Matt 19 passage), explains why the doctrine of OSAS is true. It's true because;
1) It's on His account (not ours) and
2) with God, all things are possible (not because we do more good things than bad things in life and our balance sheet comes out in the black (versus the red).

What happens when a person stops perseverance?

Stops continuing to believe...

Stops continuing to hope in the Gospel...

Let's say a person who is born again decides to take the mark of the beast so they can feed their family...

That is why no matter how you try to prop up your TULIP doctrine, it comes down to the individual and their relationship with God, which is where a person receives faith.

Jesus, on many occasions (not just in the above Matt 19 passage), explains why the doctrine of OSAS is true. It's true because;
1) It's on His account (not ours) and
2) with God, all things are possible (not because we do more good things than bad things in life and our balance sheet comes out in the black (versus the red).

It's by faith through Grace.

Unless a person responds to the Gospel massage with faith and continues in that faith...

Nothing in Matthew 19 or anywhere else teaches otherwise.


"Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." Matthew 13:19-23

and again -

we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. Hebrews 6:7-11

we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end.


... to the full assurance of hope until the end


38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." 39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
Hebrews 10:38-39


JLB

 

[chessman]

WRT Heb 6:

we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation
JLB

Amen brother. You preach it.

How confident of these better things that accompany salvation are you? I’m pretty confident. That’s why I believe in OSAS. It has nothing to do with me, but rather it has to do with my confidence in God.

Phil 1:3 I give thanks to my God upon my every remembrance of you, 4 always in my every prayer for all of you, making the prayer with joy, 5 because of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 convinced of this same thing, that the one who began a good work in you will finish it until the day of Christ Jesus,​

Amen. The One that began a good work will finish it (not the individual), I’m confindent. The individual neither begins it nor ends it. God doesn’t forget things (like to fix a post #). That’s the point I was making in the my post you responded to and this Hebrews passage is yet another example text that I could have pointed to, to support my case.

this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. Matthew 13:19-23
JLB

Amen again brother! You need to come preach this message in my church. There is no root in himself, in that person who merely hears the word and is immediately joyful and for a while afterwards about hearing the Gospel. It’s imperative that any and ALL true believer(s), well believe the word, and literally receive Christ, not just hear it and be ‘joyful’ about it till the end.

I cannot, of course, speak for other persons. But I can speak for myself. When I was born again, it WAS NOT with immediate joy upon hearing the Gospel message. In fact, I fought it tooth and nail right up to the very second I received Him in my heart. Then and only then, did I feel relief and joy in the Gospel. I cannot imagine a person simply hearing the Gospel and saying cool, joy and poof they’re saved. Does not salvation come through repentance and admission of our giuilt (not joy) of sin? That’s not immediately joyful. I assure you that it was not immediately upon hearing it (as I had heard it my whole life up until that day) that it became joyful to me.

Which brings me to a point I’ve been meaning to make about this OP topic (and it’s not a complaint with its moderation). It’s simply related.

Why is it that the Mods had to edit the title and OP? Is it not extremely presumptive/insulting that the OP author ‘knows’ what ALL OSASers must believe about God creating robots? And the supporting link's messages are very insulting toward reformed theology.

Obviously they thought so and thus edited the OP title and original post to tone it down some. The problem is, that if it was presumptive and somewhat insulting to state that ALL OSASers believe God created robots, then how is it not also insulting that now only some of them believe this?

My point is that I’m an OSASer and I don’t think God created robots. In fact, I know a lot of other OSASers and I don’t know a single one that thinks God created robots. I don’t know any at all that would be the (Some) that makes the Title and OP accurate. Maybe if there are any on this forum they could raise their hands and say so. But you know who I often hear that from? Non-OSASers, that’s who. They say such and such believes God created human robots. Yeah, right? Who believes that?

Regardless, here’s where I’m going with this point:

I have two (maybe three) methods for determining what’s true in life (and what other people think and say is not one of them):

1. God’s Word. (and thanks for the Hebrews and Matthew passages for that confidence builder). If God’s Word gave an example of a person that once was saved, then lost their salvation (lost their eternal life) then I’d believe it. I’d wonder about the consistency of that passage with others like I’ve posted, however. Since having eternal life, then losing eternal life seems like a contradiction in terms to me. As far as I know, there is no named example of a person losing their eternal life contained in the Bible.
2. My personal experiences. I don’t like to speculate on the hearts of other believers, so I don’t know about others. But God does. My personal experience leads me to believe OSAS is true.
3. Logic​

What happens when a person stops perseverance?
JLB

I don’t know. How round is a square? To stop persevering seems like an oxymoron to me.

Unless a person responds to the Gospel massage with faith and continues in that faith...
JLB

I don’t believe there are any coincidences in life or Freudian slips. Now who is it exactly that’s doing the massaging helping us choose to accept the Gospel message? My answer is God, the Holy Spirit massages our spirit as we choose to accept that Gospel message. And for me it was a deep muscle massage. I kneaded it very much

It was quite painful during the massage itself but joyous and relaxing afterwards. I’m glad I listened and thankful to my masseur.

That same H.S. is that same masseur which also accompanies our salvation and kneads our spirit till the end. In my opinion that does not negate man's free will.

 

[Deborah13]

WRT Heb 6:
Amen brother. You preach it.

How confident of these better things that accompany salvation are you? I’m pretty confident. That’s why I believe in OSAS. It has nothing to do with me, but rather it has to do with my confidence in God.

Phil 1:3 I give thanks to my God upon my every remembrance of you, 4 always in my every prayer for all of you, making the prayer with joy, 5 because of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 convinced of this same thing, that the one who began a good work in you will finish it until the day of Christ Jesus,​

Amen. The One that began a good work will finish it (not the individual), I’m confindent. The individual neither begins it nor ends it. God doesn’t forget things (like to fix a post #). That’s the point I was making in the my post you responded to and this Hebrews passage is yet another example text that I could have pointed to, to support my case.

Amen again brother! You need to come preach this message in my church. There is no root in himself, in that person who merely hears the word and is immediately joyful and for a while afterwards about hearing the Gospel. It’s imperative that any and ALL true believer(s), well believe the word, and literally receive Christ, not just hear it and be ‘joyful’ about it till the end.

I cannot, of course, speak for other persons. But I can speak for myself. When I was born again, it WAS NOT with immediate joy upon hearing the Gospel message. In fact, I fought it tooth and nail right up to the very second I received Him in my heart. Then and only then, did I feel relief and joy in the Gospel. I cannot imagine a person simply hearing the Gospel and saying cool, joy and poof they’re saved. Does not salvation come through repentance and admission of our giuilt (not joy) of sin? That’s not immediately joyful. I assure you that it was not immediately upon hearing it (as I had heard it my whole life up until that day) that it became joyful to me.

Which brings me to a point I’ve been meaning to make about this OP topic (and it’s not a complaint with its moderation). It’s simply related.

Why is it that the Mods had to edit the title and OP? Is it not extremely presumptive/insulting that the OP author ‘knows’ what ALL OSASers must believe about God creating robots? And the supporting link's messages are very insulting toward reformed theology.

Obviously they thought so and thus edited the OP title and original post to tone it down some. The problem is, that if it was presumptive and somewhat insulting to state that ALL OSASers believe God created robots, then how is it not also insulting that now only some of them believe this?

My point is that I’m an OSASer and I don’t think God created robots. In fact, I know a lot of other OSASers and I don’t know a single one that thinks God created robots. I don’t know any at all that would be the (Some) that makes the Title and OP accurate. Maybe if there are any on this forum they could raise their hands and say so. But you know who I often hear that from? Non-OSASers, that’s who. They say such and such believes God created human robots. Yeah, right? Who believes that?

Regardless, here’s where I’m going with this point:

I have two (maybe three) methods for determining what’s true in life (and what other people think and say is not one of them):

1. God’s Word. (and thanks for the Hebrews and Matthew passages for that confidence builder). If God’s Word gave an example of a person that once was saved, then lost their salvation (lost their eternal life) then I’d believe it. I’d wonder about the consistency of that passage with others like I’ve posted, however. Since having eternal life, then losing eternal life seems like a contradiction in terms to me. As far as I know, there is no named example of a person losing their eternal life contained in the Bible.​

Now this sounds like Spurgeon.

2. My personal experiences. I don’t like to speculate on the hearts of other believers, so I don’t know about others. But God does. My personal experience leads me to believe OSAS is true.
3. Logic

I don’t know. How round is a square? To stop persevering seems like an oxymoron to me.
I don’t believe there are any coincidences in life or Freudian slips. Now who is it exactly that’s doing the massaging helping us choose to accept the Gospel message? My answer is God, the Holy Spirit massages our spirit as we choose to accept that Gospel message. And for me it was a deep muscle massage. I kneaded it very much

It was quite painful during the massage itself but joyous and relaxing afterwards. I’m glad I listened and thankful to my masseur.

That same H.S. is that same masseur which also accompanies our salvation and kneads our spirit till the end. In my opinion that does not negate man's free will.

I really liked this post. I cannot say that I am convinced that one cannot totally reject their salvation. But I am convinced that God ties a rope to us that is so tight we would have to literally and deliberately naw it in two to get free in order to destroy ourselves.

 

[JLB]

Now this sounds like Spurgeon.


​

I really liked this post. I cannot say that I am convinced that one cannot totally reject their salvation. But I am convinced that God ties a rope to us that is so tight we would have to literally and deliberately naw it in two to get free in order to destroy ourselves.

I believe He loves us and would do anything to see us saved, as He sent His Only begotten Son to die for us.

However, we have the many admonitions and warnings from the writers of the new testament that warns us, take heed when you think you stand, lest you fall.

As Peter says -

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment...

These angels were sons of God,like many who claim to be.

Paul says it this way -

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:23

and again -

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19


Obviously the unsaved will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This is directed to the born again saved believer.


JLB

 

[JLB]

WRT Heb 6:
Amen brother. You preach it.

How confident of these better things that accompany salvation are you? I’m pretty confident. That’s why I believe in OSAS. It has nothing to do with me, but rather it has to do with my confidence in God.

Phil 1:3 I give thanks to my God upon my every remembrance of you, 4 always in my every prayer for all of you, making the prayer with joy, 5 because of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 convinced of this same thing, that the one who began a good work in you will finish it until the day of Christ Jesus,​

Amen. The One that began a good work will finish it (not the individual), I’m confindent. The individual neither begins it nor ends it. God doesn’t forget things (like to fix a post #). That’s the point I was making in the my post you responded to and this Hebrews passage is yet another example text that I could have pointed to, to support my case.

Amen again brother! You need to come preach this message in my church. There is no root in himself, in that person who merely hears the word and is immediately joyful and for a while afterwards about hearing the Gospel. It’s imperative that any and ALL true believer(s), well believe the word, and literally receive Christ, not just hear it and be ‘joyful’ about it till the end.

I cannot, of course, speak for other persons. But I can speak for myself. When I was born again, it WAS NOT with immediate joy upon hearing the Gospel message. In fact, I fought it tooth and nail right up to the very second I received Him in my heart. Then and only then, did I feel relief and joy in the Gospel. I cannot imagine a person simply hearing the Gospel and saying cool, joy and poof they’re saved. Does not salvation come through repentance and admission of our giuilt (not joy) of sin? That’s not immediately joyful. I assure you that it was not immediately upon hearing it (as I had heard it my whole life up until that day) that it became joyful to me.

Which brings me to a point I’ve been meaning to make about this OP topic (and it’s not a complaint with its moderation). It’s simply related.

Why is it that the Mods had to edit the title and OP? Is it not extremely presumptive/insulting that the OP author ‘knows’ what ALL OSASers must believe about God creating robots? And the supporting link's messages are very insulting toward reformed theology.

Obviously they thought so and thus edited the OP title and original post to tone it down some. The problem is, that if it was presumptive and somewhat insulting to state that ALL OSASers believe God created robots, then how is it not also insulting that now only some of them believe this?

My point is that I’m an OSASer and I don’t think God created robots. In fact, I know a lot of other OSASers and I don’t know a single one that thinks God created robots. I don’t know any at all that would be the (Some) that makes the Title and OP accurate. Maybe if there are any on this forum they could raise their hands and say so. But you know who I often hear that from? Non-OSASers, that’s who. They say such and such believes God created human robots. Yeah, right? Who believes that?

Regardless, here’s where I’m going with this point:

I have two (maybe three) methods for determining what’s true in life (and what other people think and say is not one of them):

1. God’s Word. (and thanks for the Hebrews and Matthew passages for that confidence builder). If God’s Word gave an example of a person that once was saved, then lost their salvation (lost their eternal life) then I’d believe it. I’d wonder about the consistency of that passage with others like I’ve posted, however. Since having eternal life, then losing eternal life seems like a contradiction in terms to me. As far as I know, there is no named example of a person losing their eternal life contained in the Bible.
2. My personal experiences. I don’t like to speculate on the hearts of other believers, so I don’t know about others. But God does. My personal experience leads me to believe OSAS is true.
3. Logic​

I don’t know. How round is a square? To stop persevering seems like an oxymoron to me.
I don’t believe there are any coincidences in life or Freudian slips. Now who is it exactly that’s doing the massaging helping us choose to accept the Gospel message? My answer is God, the Holy Spirit massages our spirit as we choose to accept that Gospel message. And for me it was a deep muscle massage. I kneaded it very much

It was quite painful during the massage itself but joyous and relaxing afterwards. I’m glad I listened and thankful to my masseur.

That same H.S. is that same masseur which also accompanies our salvation and kneads our spirit till the end. In my opinion that does not negate man's free will.

God's word says take heed when you think you stand lest you fall.

God's word says the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

God's word says those who endure to the end will be saved.

God's word says that those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Amen!


JLB

 

[chessman]

​

God's word says those who endure to the end will be saved.


Amen!


JLB

Cool. I agree. I'm confident that is true. It supports OSAS.

God's word says that those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.
JLB

Again. I agree. But read on. What else does Paul add to his point?

Galatians 5:22, 24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ... Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. ​

Once again. An OSAS passage.

And I've already mentioned Jesus' teaching about this inheritance method:

Matthew 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this [inheritance] is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” ​

God's word says take heed when you think you stand lest you fall.

JLB

. Heeded!

Mark 13:20, 23 Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days. ...

But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance. ​

God's word says the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

JLB

Amen. Glad that's true. It's an amazing prediction of future events. Peter speaks with confidence about their salvation, does he not? Just as I do.

1 Peter 1:10-11 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.​

Glorious!

 

[MarkT]

Eternal life or eternal destruction. Is that a choice? It's a no brainer.

Don't let Satan bewitch you. Anyone who is born of the Holy Sprit is born of God. God knows who belong to Him. He's not going to let Satan have you.

 

[JLB]

​

Cool. I agree. I'm confident that is true. It supports OSAS.



Again. I agree. But read on. What else does Paul add to his point?

Galatians 5:22, 24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ... Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. ​

Once again. An OSAS passage.

And I've already mentioned Jesus' teaching about this inheritance method:

Matthew 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this [inheritance] is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” ​

. Heeded!

Mark 13:20, 23 Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days. ...

But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance. ​

Amen. Glad that's true. It's an amazing prediction of future events. Peter speaks with confidence about their salvation, does he not? Just as I do.

1 Peter 1:10-11 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.​

Glorious!

No sir, does not even come close to supporting OSAS.

OSAS means = Once your saved, your always saved.

Once saved means that the salvation of you soul occurs at the beginning of your faith in Christ.

The scripture states just the opposite.

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul. 1 Peter 1:9

He who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13


Once your saved by believing the Gospel, you have faith in Christ for salvation.

If you have faith in Christ for salvation, you are hoping for the reality of salvation when Christ returns.

Maybe you don't know that. Maybe you have never been taught that.

You must continue in this faith for salvation and not turn away from the hope of the Gospel.

The hope of the Gospel is the salvation of your soul, which will occur when Jesus returns, to gather His people at the resurrection.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

If you still have faith for salvation, then you are in fact hoping for salvation.

Faith is not the reality of salvation, it is the substance of the thing hoped for.

Paul's explains -

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

If we had the reality of what we are hoping for then we would not have to persevere and continue in the faith until the end.

Once you are saved the you must continue in faith and not turn away from the hope of the Gospel.

It's not automatic

JLB

 

[jeff77]

No sir, does not even come close to supporting OSAS.

OSAS means = Once your saved, your always saved.

Once saved means that the salvation of you soul occurs at the beginning of your faith in Christ.

The scripture states just the opposite.

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul. 1 Peter 1:9

He who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13


Once your saved by believing the Gospel, you have faith in Christ for salvation.

If you have faith in Christ for salvation, you are hoping for the reality of salvation when Christ returns.

Maybe you don't know that. Maybe you have never been taught that.

You must continue in this faith for salvation and not turn away from the hope of the Gospel.

The hope of the Gospel is the salvation of your soul, which will occur when Jesus returns, to gather His people at the resurrection.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

If you still have faith for salvation, then you are in fact hoping for salvation.

Faith is not the reality of salvation, it is the substance of the thing hoped for.

Paul's explains -

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

If we had the reality of what we are hoping for then we would not have to persevere and continue in the faith until the end.

Once you are saved the you must continue in faith and not turn away from the hope of the Gospel.

It's not automatic

JLB

That's interesting JLB. I have never heard those scriptures. I don't believe in OSAS but I thought someone could receive salvation and walk away from it. I will have to re-think it based on the verses you have shown here.