Some Things.. Hard To Be Understood..

[Eventide]

hmmmm? Conditional upon you or I? I have my doubts on that angle.

Sanctification and Truth are pretty open terms territory for 'subjectively attached meanings.'

s

We certainly did not make the conditions if that's what you mean..

It would be infinitely easier perhaps if you simply share what the verse in 2 Thess 2 means to you..

 

[Eventide]

How shall I answer that? If one does not believe the Truth he will not be saved. Yet I believed the Truth because I saw it. Is this sight that sees the Truth His providence or mine? That is what I would like to have answered.

Well, what MUST I DO to be saved ?

Jesus said, No one can come to me unless it is given by God for him to come. How do you reconcile that?

I think that it aligns nicely with the conditions from 2 Thess 2.. for we must worship God in spirit and in truth.. and that's how God chose to save us from the beginning.

 

[glorydaz]

The point is that God chooses us to salvation conditionally, not unconditionally.. and those conditions are sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

Do you agree with that or not ? If not, then why not when it says so plainly..?

God chose Israel as His peculiar people...a chosen nation to make known the Power, Mercy, Longsuffering, and Faithfulness of the Creator to the rest of the World. Did they fail? Certainly some did, but not all.

Paul denounces the idea that because Israel, as the chosen of God, proved God's choosing wrong somehow, points out the benefits that came to mankind through the seed of Abraham. (Rom. 9:6) "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

The Promise has always been conditional on faith. We must place our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, for He chooses those who believe on the Son. Clearly, God does not choose some and reject others.

What a beautiful portion of scripture...

This obviously does not mean some certain ones were chosen from the beginning of time, because we're called by the gospel of Christ. Called...not picked. The "conditions," as you say, are whether we have pleasure in unrighteousness or believe unto righteousness. We're "set apart" by the Spirit when we have faith in Christ.

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We turn from the unholy toward the HOLY. We follow after foreign gods, or we follow hard after the One True God.

So it always was, so it is today. We must seek God with all our heart. Deuteronomy 4:29 - "But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul."

 

[Eventide]

This obviously does not mean some certain ones were chosen from the beginning of time, because we're called by the gospel of Christ.

I couldn't agree more.. the verse does not say that certain ones were chosen from the beginning of time.. it speaks of God establishing the CONDITIONS by which any person would be saved, from the beginning..

This is why I believe that unconditional election is wrong.. because we're told plainly what HIS conditions for choosing a person to salvation are, in the holy scriptures... sanctification of the Spirit and believing the truth.

 

[glorydaz]

I couldn't agree more.. the verse does not say that certain ones were chosen from the beginning of time.. it speaks of God establishing the CONDITIONS by which any person would be saved, from the beginning..

This is why I believe that unconditional election is wrong.. because we're told plainly what HIS conditions for choosing a person to salvation are, in the holy scriptures... sanctification of the Spirit and believing the truth.

Another thought struck me concerning this topic, Eventide. It's in regards to the death angel passing over the house of those who had applied blood to the door post. Ex. 12

The blood of the Passover Lamb had to be applied by the individual to the doorpost and lintel or the "salvation" that had been provided wouldn't work for that individual. If God does it all because man is totally depraved, God would have applied the blood, because man can't. If God had elected some to be saved, the idividual would have had to do nothing but sit inside his house.

 

[Eventide]

Another thought struck me concerning this topic, Eventide. It's in regards to the death angel passing over the house of those who had applied blood to the door post. Ex. 12

The blood of the Passover Lamb had to be applied by the individual to the doorpost and lintel or the "salvation" that had been provided wouldn't work for that individual. If God does it all because man is totally depraved, God would have applied the blood, because man can't. If God had elected some to be saved, the idividual would have had to do nothing but sit inside his house.

It's hard to believe that so many people actually think like this..

 

[glorydaz]

It's hard to believe that so many people actually think like this..

It really has to do with how the blood is applied. I hear some claim we're saved by grace alone, even though it's clearly written we are saved by grace through FAITH. The people had to put the blood over the doorposts themselves before the death angel passed over. If they didn't believe God, they would not apply the blood. Only those who believed God, applied the blood and were saved. God's grace gave them the method (applying the blood) by which they could be saved.

 

[jesus4life]

Egoes, judgments of others, lying, backbiting, competitions, rumors, jealousies, putting down others, etc...all SIN!

This is what Paul was saying that's hard to understood. Because he knew from CHRIST's teachings that this would ruin us. That's how the " adversary" will come so easy to power. We will be weak from murdering one another in words, actions, and teachings!!! It's sad to see it. Very sad. Many dont understand. Paul's words are worth crying about. As JESUS cried for us. We dont see that we are the problem. Alot of times I just see the devil just waiting for us to finish his work for him with all the sinning we do openly as believers and not. It's sad. The love that JESUS showed is not shown by many in the world. Love of CHRIST heals. So, if we dont show it, then the opposite of healing is to kill or to damage. This is what many are doing do each other; knoweldgeably ( loving evil) or ignorantly ( being taught wrong and spreading evil).

jesus4life

 

[Eventide]

All of Paul's letters are written to the church of God, His future wife and bride to be.. staggering to say the least.. and I can only imagine (hey, that sounds like a song) what that event of all events will be like.. John fell down in worship when it was revealed to him..

IMO this is why Paul's letters contain some of the deepest truths of scripture (deep things of God), because they are written to His church.. it's His wife ! ! !

I'll never forgot a brother's comments in the breaking of bread meeting, which is centered upon remembering Him in His death til He comes.. he said that "we can't even begin to understand" what He went through on that cross for us there on Calvary, where He alone bore OUR SIN in His own body on that tree.. the mockery, the spitting, the scurging, and there lifted up on that cross.. being made sin for us.. the one who knew no sin, did no sin, and had no sin in Him.. so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him..

He is worthy of all glory and praise, the one and only one.. our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.