Some Things.. Hard To Be Understood..

[Adullam]

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Peter (the Apostle to the Circumcision, or Jews) writes in his 2nd Epistle concerning some of Paul's (the Apostle to the Gentiles) writings.. and mentions that some things are hard to be understood..

What are some of the things which you think that Peter is referring to..?

The immediate context is His coming, and His longsuffering.. as well as the Day of the Lord and the judgment to come..

I often think that this is referring to the mystery pertaining to Israel, seeing that Peter is the Apostle to the Jews.. although Peter also writes of making our calling and election sure in the first chapter of this epistle.. so it could be these things as well perhaps..

There's also a serious consequence of mis-applying Paul's words, and that some do this to their own destruction.. serious indeed..

So what are your thoughts on some things hard to be understood ?

I think some of the other apostles were having to correct some brothers who were coming away from having heard Paul with some very strange ideas indeed! These ideas are rampant in our day.

 

[Eventide]

I think some of the other apostles were having to correct some brothers who were coming away from having heard Paul with some very strange ideas indeed! These ideas are rampant in our day.

Interesting thought indeed..

What might some of these 'rampant' ideas be ?

 

[glorydaz]

Perhaps shifting gears again might be interesting..

What are your thoughts on this verse from Paul's letter to the Corinthian church...

Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

Paul is speaking to Christians who are abusing their liberty by adding in the world via false religious practices.
The Corinthians were famous for bringing their practices of idolatry into the church. We are called to be separate from the world...especially when it comes to "worshipping" any other "idol". We serve a jealous God.

 

[Eventide]

Here's another interesting portion of the word of God written to the church of God from 1 Cor 5.. I think that we all know the context.. but look at what they're told to do..

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

How would the church deliver one unto Satan.. ?

 

[glorydaz]

Here's another interesting portion of the word of God written to the church of God from 1 Cor 5.. I think that we all know the context.. but look at what they're told to do..

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

How would the church deliver one unto Satan.. ?

The assembly can go no farther than putting such a one out of fellowship, but I think Paul is speaking of his own authority as an apostle in this case. The church has ignored this matter, so Paul takes it up himself and announces under what authority he does so.

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

It's like to the case recorded in 1 Tim. 1:20 "Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Paul, by the authority of Jesus Christ is doing what God does here in Job. He is giving satan the ability to inflict physical harm on the flesh. Job 2:6-7 - "And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."

 

[Eventide]

The assembly can go no farther than putting such a one out of fellowship, but I think Paul is speaking of his own authority as an apostle in this case. The church has ignored this matter, so Paul takes it up himself and announces under what authority he does so.



It's like to the case recorded in 1 Tim. 1:20 "Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Paul, by the authority of Jesus Christ is doing what God does here in Job. He is giving satan the ability to inflict physical harm on the flesh. Job 2:6-7 - "And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."

Excellent commentary Glory.. well stated imo.

 

[Eventide]

One of my favs from Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles..

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

 

[smaller]

One of my favs from Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles..

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

You may enjoy trying to harmonize the above with this statement from Paul as well:

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

have fun...

s

 

[Eventide]

You may enjoy trying to harmonize the above with this statement from Paul as well:

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

have fun...

s

IMO this is perhaps one thing hard to be understood... And I truly believe that there are NONE good but ONE, and that is God.

I'm not sure if people actually believe that..

Yes, it is a joy to speak of the oracles of God.

 

[smaller]

IMO this is perhaps one thing hard to be understood... And I truly believe that there are NONE good but ONE, and that is God.

I'm not sure if people actually believe that..

Yes, it is a joy to speak of the oracles of God.

In the contemplation of God, there is unending JOY because He is apart from any other measures.

His Word is extremely simple, yet extremely complex simultaneously.

I am very GLAD that He is in charge!

enjoy!

s

 

[Eventide]

In the contemplation of God, there is unending JOY because He is apart from any other measures.

His Word is extremely simple, yet extremely complex simultaneously.

I am very GLAD that He is in charge!

enjoy!

s

Amen and Amen !

 

[Eventide]

This might be another thing hard to be understood.. and the reason I say that is because many are being taught today that God chose them unconditionally.. and yet, the conditions are told to us plainly..

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth..

IMO it doesn't get much clearer than that..

 

[smaller]

This might be another thing hard to be understood.. and the reason I say that is because many are being taught today that God chose them unconditionally.. and yet, the conditions are told to us plainly..

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth..

IMO it doesn't get much clearer than that..

A question might be, chosen for WHAT?

Deuteronomy 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

We certainly saw how that worked out for them didn't we?

s

 

[Eventide]

Paul is writing to the church of God and he tells them that they were chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

 

[smaller]

Paul is writing to the church of God and he tells them that they were chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

Well, logic might dictate that Paul was speaking through the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him.

The same thing can be said of the O.T. Prophets. The Spirit of Christ was speaking through them also, and also in the citing I provided.

Sometimes being chosen ain't all it's cracked up to be in certain 'psuedo spiritual circles.' That's my point.

Look what 'they' did to Jesus for an example of being 'chosen.'

s

 

[childeye]

Paul is writing to the church of God and he tells them that they were chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth is salvation.

 

[Eventide]

Well, logic might dictate that Paul was speaking through the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him.

The same thing can be said of the O.T. Prophets. The Spirit of Christ was speaking through them also, and also in the citing I provided.

Sometimes being chosen ain't all it's cracked up to be in certain 'psuedo spiritual circles.' That's my point.

Look what 'they' did to Jesus for an example of being 'chosen.'

s

The point is that God chooses us to salvation conditionally, not unconditionally.. and those conditions are sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

Do you agree with that or not ? If not, then why not when it says so plainly..?

 

[Eventide]

Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth is salvation.

AND those are the conditions by which God chooses us for salvation.. iow, God would not choose you to salvation if you didn't believe the truth.. right ?

 

[childeye]

AND those are the conditions by which God chooses us for salvation.. iow, God would not choose you to salvation if you didn't believe the truth.. right ?

How shall I answer that? If one does not believe the Truth he will not be saved. Yet I believed the Truth because I saw it. Is this sight that sees the Truth His providence or mine? That is what I would like to have answered.

Jesus said, No one can come to me unless it is given by God for him to come. How do you reconcile that?

 

[smaller]

The point is that God chooses us to salvation conditionally, not unconditionally.. and those conditions are sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

Do you agree with that or not ? If not, then why not when it says so plainly..?

hmmmm? Conditional upon you or I? I have my doubts on that angle.

Sanctification and Truth are pretty open terms territory for 'subjectively attached meanings.'

s