Son of Perdition

[Adstar]

I can see where your coming from here Brother Adstar. An image could also be 3d could it not? Hologram??? that would be semi-believable to the poor Christians who may be not so grounded in the Word. Also the fake alien invasion might be a possible candidate. Live on TV. Lolz....Fake Jesus steps out of a spaceship thats landed on the U.N. front lawn?

I know that Holographs are referred to as being images but to me they are more like statues built with light. It could be as you say. But if the whole world is to bow down and worship the image then a simple satellite TV image of the anti-christ beamed around the world would be far more practical. The system is built and global and would produce the required effect needed to fulfill the prophecy.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

Doc,You do understand that it is not one man who sets up the abomination of desolation dont you?
The scripture says an army does this.Not the king (president)who commands them.

Yeah no probs....

Whats the difference anyway? Big boy at the top ordering his army around.

And personally I dont think it's gonna be only an army (military) at his disposal. He will also have a fair number of the regular multidude on his side to enforce the mark on real Christians. The courts etc.

He'll need regular citizens to do his bidding too. Armys may be off fighting wars.

Serpents and scorpians. Both are required.

 

[Adstar]

Maybe he has maybe he hasnt. No real way of knowing.

He could very well be here on earth now. But this does not mean that the Restrainer would need to be removed for him to be here. He could be here but restrained untill all is ready.

Lolz....I attend the church of ChristianForums.net.

Never been to a building called a church in my life.

Where ever two are gathered in His name there He shall also be. The Body of Christ is the true Church and it needs no buildings

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

the u.n or any nations or person hasnt gained control of the world.

The only thing left is to actually announce it publically.

two. i can see that restrainer as to things, the holy spirit, he still is active on the earth
as a pre-tribber the church hasnt been raptured.

Oh. Pre-trib.

Isn't the Holy Spirit gonna be around later on for the rest of us?? Drat!

obama is distancing us from the nation of isreal. if isreal was that powerful surely we wouldnt be doing that.

Documentation please. Thanks alot. And even if Obama has made any indication like that...most of the apostate church in America is still 100% behind the Nation Stat of Isreal both financially and spiritually........

 

[Strangelove]

we can't know for sure exactly who (and with "what") is restraining the evil one, but my thought is it's Michael, since Michael always seems to deal with Satan; Michael and Satan war in heaven and Michael and his angels prevail, and satan is cast to earth; etc.

the word "withholdeth" means a pressing down, restraining. "until he be taken out of the way" means moved or removed. so it seems likely to me it's Michael.

Thats absolutely fascinating Sister Z.

Can anyone see error in that?

 

[Strangelove]

I know that Holographs are referred to as being images but to me they are more like statues built with light. It could be as you say. But if the whole world is to bow down and worship the image then a simple satellite TV image of the anti-christ beamed around the world would be far more practical. The system is built and global and would produce the required effect needed to fulfill the prophecy.

Yeah they got so many ways of doing it. It's anyones guess.

A bonus I think is that.....I think it says in the Bible to expect the real thing to be nothing like anything we've seen before. ((could be wrong but I think it says that somewhere)).

I mean. That rules out a hologram.....a TV image....whatever.

It's gonna be an unbelievable sight in the sky. The real second coming is gonna blow our minds. I expect nothing like I've ever seen before. Not even close.

 

[jasoncran]

ok, then why did the paul say that the mysterity of iniquity now worketh, what make our time different then his?

nero was very much a diety, and also other roman emporers.

and sl, i can tell that you hate all chruches, careful there as that 'church" also put the bible together for you.

i can also say this, why would the anti-christ attack himself if its is isreal?

 

[zone]

ok, then why did the paul say that the mysterity of iniquity now worketh, what make our time different then his?

nero was very much a diety, and also other roman emporers.

and sl, i can tell that you hate all chruches, careful there as that 'church" also put the bible together for you.

i can also say this, why would the anti-christ attack himself if its is isreal?

hi jason
the mystery of iniquity is the occult (hidden) system of satanic takeover. just like the word MYSTERY in Mystery Babylon, it means secret religious initiation. it's a little more than regular sin.

Doc may choose not to go wigging out over Bentley signs and wonders or tithing to get a cadillac from God, but the Church, The Body is "invisible", meaning everywhere, not necessarily in buildings.

jason, Scripture is clear that the Mother of Harlots is Jerusalem.

 

[zone]

Yeah they got so many ways of doing it. It's anyones guess.

A bonus I think is that.....I think it says in the Bible to expect the real thing to be nothing like anything we've seen before. ((could be wrong but I think it says that somewhere)).

I mean. That rules out a hologram.....a TV image....whatever.

It's gonna be an unbelievable sight in the sky. The real second coming is gonna blow our minds. I expect nothing like I've ever seen before. Not even close.

The Temple.

The Temple Institute: The Holy Temple in Jerusalem

 

[jasoncran]

hi jason
the mystery of iniquity is the occult (hidden) system of satanic takeover. just like the word MYSTERY in Mystery Babylon, it means secret religious initiation. it's a little more than regular sin.

Doc may choose not to go wigging out over Bentley signs and wonders or tithing to get a cadillac from God, but the Church, The Body is "invisible", meaning everywhere, not necessarily in buildings.

jason, Scripture is clear that the Mother of Harlots is Jerusalem.

i prefer the verse hebrews 10:25 over that. " let us not forsake the assembling ourselves together like the manner of some is"

this is a ministry but not church.

does athiest bash God in his own house as a daily thing. Do unrepentant gays, and others bash the lord as well in our churches. they are welcome but not to insult the faith when we worship.

this site isnt a replacement for church and i know that church isnt a building. But who is leading this bible study? or where is the worship?

a ministry indeed but not a church.

three christians in a bar doenst make that a church if they are a sinnin.

i trust only those that can and do live the life. over this site and those that post. though i do believe many are real, but how we know that some arent just here to argue and arent saved? yet also know the bible very well.

that isnt to say that i dont take the points here but i will listen to my pastor over many here, as he is real. i know he lives the life of christ out.

and that is more important then some blogger that makes a point here or there yet doenst even know christ and doesnt care too.

 

[Strangelove]

The Temple.

The Temple Institute: The Holy Temple in Jerusalem

Yeah I've seen that sight. Its horrible. They are really ramping it up now.

Heres the robes. Notice the purple.

 

[zone]

i prefer the verse hebrews 10:25 over that. " let us not forsake the assembling ourselves together like the manner of some is"

this is a ministry but not church..

hi jason.
the verse you quoted doesn't say building. but personally i agree with you. if i could find a good fundamentalist church where the Word of God is taught, i'd be there. but i've been to them all in my area, and have found serious problems with what i consider to be the main reason for assembling with others: SOUND DOCTRINE. my experience has been that when that isn't there, everything else goes sideways.

i do maintain a relationship with a pastor i love and rely on, and relationships with some i've met at church.

But who is leading this bible study?..

leading? i study for myself. i figured out early on i had to (let alone want to), since no one even brought their bibles to the churches i went to. the bible studies i attended were "made up" by whoever's turn it was to lead it. some were good, but some were way out there. i refuse to take part in something that claims to be about God yet doesn't hAndle Scripture properly.

this is a discussion....is that a "study", or not?

or where is the worship?

we worship God in the way He really wants, in Spirit and in Truth. do you sing His praises? i agree it's best to gather together: but i'll have no part in cults. that's pretty much what i've found here.

three christians in a bar doenst make that a church if they are a sinnin.?

uummm......okaaaayyyy.....how come i don't have a martini in my hand?
aren't you a sinner, jason?

i trust only those that can and do live the life. over this site and those that post. though i do believe many are real, but how we know that some arent just here to argue and arent saved? yet also know the bible very well.

couldn't agree more. i don't trust man at all.
there are people sitting in churches all around the world today who aren't saved either.

and that is more important then some blogger that makes a point here or there yet doenst even know christ and doesnt care too.

daniel and the hebrew boys were educated in Babylon by heathens. are we not able to learn from any source using discernment?

if i read about Catholicism, for example, i'm not looking for Truth, i'm looking for something else that helps me UNDERSTAND.

zone.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Re: Son of Perdition

Originally Posted by Shilohsfoal
Doc,You do understand that it is not one man who sets up the abomination of desolation dont you?
The scripture says an army does this.Not the king (president)who commands them.



hi shiloh, i know you were asking Doc, but would it be okay if i ask a question?


k...thanks.
could you go into this a bit more?
even if that's so, does that effect the theory much?

eventually the son of perdition (leading the Mother of Harlots) will have total control. he won't really need to do much himself, aside from proclaiming himself to be god, and he'll apparently be able to put forth the order that ALL who dwell upon the earth receive the mark or be killed...it'll take a big army or force to accomplish that.

best,
zone.
​

The son of perdition doesnt claim to be God.The scripture says that he shows himself that he is God.
Daniel 11;31
And arms shall stand on his part,and they shall pollute the sanctuary of streghth,and shall take away the daily sacrifice,and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

He(the king of the north)does not place the abomination of desolation(mark of the beast),The scripture says (THEY)as in the (ARMS) does these things.Not the king of the north himself.Also I want to make note that those jews who do wickedly against the covenant like this king.The scripture doesnt say that he will invade Israel but it appears the wicked jews are his friends.The only people to die in Judea will be those who know thier God (the Messianic jews)as they are being put to death in verse 33.
Daniel 11;33
And they that undersdtand amoung the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil many days.

No where does it say anyone outside of Judea will die at the hands of this army that is in Judea.In fact Jesus says to flee from Judea at that time in Mathew 24;15-16

Why you think the beast with seven heads and ten horns rules the world is beyond me.It is as unscriptural as the pre trib rapture.

 

[TonkaTim]

Why you think the beast with seven heads and ten horns rules the world is beyond me.It is as unscriptural as the pre trib rapture.

Shilohsfoal,

I think it is scripture such as Revelation 13 like we find in verse 3 "and all the world wondered after the beast. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast,"

and verse 11 - "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast'

I know these are partial phrases, but only did so for clarity. Looks like the entire world from the scripture in chapt 13 of Revelation

Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


Then we see that for the last 90 years or so the nations having been working to build world government through trade treaty also known as admiralty law. In the modern era they are called The Laws of the Sea. This global law was established by the United Nations and is upheld by the World Court at the Hague.

So, what other perspective should be to taken from Rev 13 in regards to the beast with 7 heads & 10 horns, other than unifiing world controlling authority?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Shilohsfoal,

I think it is scripture such as Revelation 13 like we find in verse 3 "and all the world wondered after the beast. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast,"

and verse 11 - "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast'

I know these are partial phrases, but only did so for clarity. Looks like the entire world from the scripture in chapt 13 of Revelation

Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


Then we see that for the last 90 years or so the nations having been working to build world government through trade treaty also known as admiralty law. In the modern era they are called The Laws of the Sea. This global law was established by the United Nations and is upheld by the World Court at the Hague.

So, what other perspective should be to taken from Rev 13 in regards to the beast with 7 heads & 10 horns, other than unifiing world controlling authority?

If all the world wonder after the beast then they had to go to him.He couldnt be found in all the world.
Also note the woman in chapter 12 flees from the face of the beast .This means that she goes away from him and it is written the earth helps the woman.If the beast ruled all the earth then how could the woman flee from him?Simple.He doesnt rule the entire world.Ive done enough study to understand the beast is only found in the middle east and the woman who flees from the beast is leaving Judea just like Jesus said to do in Mathew 24.


If you want to know where the beast is then look where the nations have wonderd too.
It is written that the whore sits on the beast.If you think you might know where the whore is then look there for the beast also.There is where all the world has wonderd.Jews from all over the world have wonderd to Judea.The people of Israel are from a great many countries and they all have gatherd there to serve thier king.
Peoples,multitudes nations and tongues.That is the description of the waters where the whore sits.

 

[TonkaTim]

Huh?

"wonderd" -??

wondered means - astonished - amazed

wandered - means traveled aimlessly

It is not saying the whole world "wandered" to Judea, it is saying the whole world was amazed/astonished.


Chapter 12 is dealing with the Dragon.

Chapter 13 is dealing with the Beasts.

 

[smaller]

Yeah I've seen that sight. Its horrible. They are really ramping it up now.

Heres the robes. Notice the purple.

Didn't take long for this thread to turn into another Jew bashing session.

 

[Adstar]

Yeah they got so many ways of doing it. It's anyones guess.

A bonus I think is that.....I think it says in the Bible to expect the real thing to be nothing like anything we've seen before. ((could be wrong but I think it says that somewhere)).

I mean. That rules out a hologram.....a TV image....whatever.

It's gonna be an unbelievable sight in the sky. The real second coming is gonna blow our minds. I expect nothing like I've ever seen before. Not even close.

Yes it will be spectacular bejond anything ever seen before. People should not believe it is anyone who is born into the modern world. Jesus will return in the body He left in.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

ok, then why did the paul say that the mysterity of iniquity now worketh, what make our time different then his?

nero was very much a diety, and also other roman emporers.

and sl, i can tell that you hate all chruches, careful there as that 'church" also put the bible together for you.

i can also say this, why would the anti-christ attack himself if its is isreal?

The position being put forward is not that Jerusalem is the anti-christ, the position being put forward is that Jerusalem is the Harlot of Babylon. It is revealed in Revelations that the Beast (lead by the anti-christ) will hate the harlot and destroy her with fire.

Once the harlot has served her purpose she is expendable. The anti-christ can use her destruction to deceive even more people into worshipping Him as the Messiah as God on earth. All servants of satan are expendable chips in His quest to deceive all mankind.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

i prefer the verse hebrews 10:25 over that. " let us not forsake the assembling ourselves together like the manner of some is"

this is a ministry but not church.

does athiest bash God in his own house as a daily thing. Do unrepentant gays, and others bash the lord as well in our churches. they are welcome but not to insult the faith when we worship.

this site isnt a replacement for church and i know that church isnt a building. But who is leading this bible study? or where is the worship?

a ministry indeed but not a church.

three christians in a bar doenst make that a church if they are a sinnin.

i trust only those that can and do live the life. over this site and those that post. though i do believe many are real, but how we know that some arent just here to argue and arent saved? yet also know the bible very well.

that isnt to say that i dont take the points here but i will listen to my pastor over many here, as he is real. i know he lives the life of christ out.

and that is more important then some blogger that makes a point here or there yet doenst even know christ and doesnt care too.

It is up to you to take any information you recieve and put it to the test of the Word of God.

Also each individuel is responsable for their own response to the will of God. There is danger in giving over ones relationship with God to a human "Leader". We are saved by Jesus not by any pastor or preacher or what ever other titled persons there my be. In this age of deception and doctrines of demons i will not make any man my Messiah. The only Way is the Way revealed by Jesus.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days