Bible Study Sons Of God, Giants & The New World Order - Pt 1

[New Day Coming]

Might it be that there has remained a veil of doubt and mystery over just what happened with the "angels that sinned" for these many centuries as God knows the curiosity of people and their tendency to be tempted to disobedience?

When I was a child, I remember an immaculate lawn with a sign saying "Keep off the grass"...

 

[reba]

My post was not directed at any person... it was directed to the whole idea of the thread.. nothing more..

 

[brujaq]

I don't know if this is directed at me, but I will try to answer.


In Genesis 6 it says these were sons of God, not fallen angels, which is a biblical (OT) term that refers to angels.

Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:1-4 NKJV


It seems to me that the verse says sons of God and daughters of men, to indicate male and female.


It seems from other verses that angels had the ability to appear in our domain here as men with flesh. [See Sodom and Gomorrah]


Jude who quotes Enoch refers to them as angels, and contextually couples his statement about angels, with sexually immorality of Sodom and Gomorrah. They did not keep their proper domain, indicates they violated their ability to appear in this domain as men with flesh.


6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6-7 NKJV


For me, the most compelling of the new testament writers, who wrote about this subject is Jude, since he was well read with Enoch, and quoted him.


Have you read the book of Enoch?





ME

No I have not read the book of Enoch, when was it written and who wrote it ? Do you believe there were giants 450' tall ? Matthew 22:30 and Hebrews 1:5 are too direct for me to overlook, sorry ..
Did satan have sex with Eve in the garden and was Cains father like some believe and teach ? No ..

Fallen angels have lost everything good and become everything evil .. Jude 1:10-11 says again, men .. Do fallen angels operate under some kind of code that they will no longer stoop to or lead folks to only certain sins anymore ? They do have reservations for eternal hell .. Did fallen angels marry women and care for them in their new human families ? Their sons ? Ridiculous .. To me in Job it was clear that the devil was accusing Job to God and Job suffered great loss but restored in the end ..

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Do you believe there were giants 450' tall ?

No. But I believe they were 12' tall and maybe more.


We are as grasshoppers in their sight refers to someone who is substantially taller than 7 or 8 feet.

Did satan have sex with Eve in the garden and was Cains father like some believe and teach ? No ..

No.

He would have been chained down in the bottom of hell, along with the rest of those who were disobedient, and would have never been around to tempt Jesus when He was alive on the earth as a man.


For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4 NKJV


I personally believe [IMO] that fallen angels don't have the same liberty to appear in this domain, as angels do.





ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Fallen angels have lost everything good and become everything evil .. Jude 1:10-11 says again, men ..

10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
Jude 10-11 NKJV


These verse refers to men, not fallen angels.




ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Do fallen angels operate under some kind of code that they will no longer stoop to or lead folks to only certain sins anymore ? They do have reservations for eternal hell .. Did fallen angels marry women and care for them in their new human families ? Their sons ?

Not fallen angels, as in Satan and his 1/3 of the angels, but angels.

Sons of God refers to angels, not Satan and his group.



ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

To me in Job it was clear that the devil was accusing Job to God and Job suffered great loss but restored in the end ..

Agreed.




ME

 

[brujaq]

Enoch says giants were 3000 ells = 4500' but they figured that must have been wrong so they cut it to 450'
Enoch says all sin come through Azazel .. Enoch 10:9 , wrong again
Enoch 8:1 says Azazel taught men metal working and all kinds of stuff . Sorry, all knowledge comes from God even though man can corrupt it ..

Now you say it wasn't the fallen angels but the good angels went wrong after the first bunch went wrong, no that was a one time event that lasted about a lightening bolt of time to cast them all out or either scripture saying different ..
You posted Jude 6-7 and I posted the continuation Jude 10:11

The bible lists the sizes of giants that are accurate , Enoch lists sizes that are foolishness ..
The spies saw themselves as grasshoppers but Joshua said ''they ain't that big''
Again, I don't care what anyone believes ..

 

[Razeontherock]

The thinking here demonstrates only one fall, and only one class of being: Angels, and fallen angels.

Scripture and I are both here to tell ya the world we live in is more complicated than that.

All non-human types got wiped out with the flood. So where did giants come from after the flood? Ex. Goliath.

Jesus talked about "this type" only comes out by prayer and fasting. Plus, he dealt with many that weren't "chained in darkness."

There are different classes of these evil critters, or at least that's the only way I see to reconcile these various Scriptural points.

 

[stovebolts]

The offspring who were born to Adam and his descendants were called son's and daughters of men, not sons of God.

Sons of God in the old testament refers to angels, not men.

ME

I think context is important here. I have done a fair share of studying scripture from a Hebrew perspective that gentiles don't even notice.

Job is considered a Mashal, with poetry in the middle. A Mashal is a story with intent. It can contain real and ficticious characters. It is the intent which matters. As such, sons of God within the writing of Job refers to Angels according to all Jewish literature I have read. It's not even in dispute.

When we look at the Genesis text, it's not so clear and you can read jewish commentary which translates sons of God as fallen Angel's. If you read much of these commentators, they will bring you back to the fall and Lillith is present. What I appreciated about this video, is the author shuts that door with the traditional idea of the word decieve.

I source Ramban here from memory. I hope I represent his teaching well here.

Adam was created in the Image of God and was a direct son of God. When Adam's line is told, it states that they were in the image of Adam. Thus, they were also sons of God. This is to say that the direct decendents of Adam were considered sons of God, for they were in the image of Adam, who was the son of God created in Gods image.

There is more, and I apologize for not citing the passages that support this. I do hope you all will read the story and find the passages that speak to what I am writing.

 

[Maria E Abreu]

As such, sons of God within the writing of Job refers to Angels according to all Jewish literature I have read. It's not even in dispute.

It really shouldn't be in dispute.

When we look at the Genesis text, it's not so clear and you can read jewish commentary which translates sons of God as fallen Angel's.

Why would one believe that in Job, sons of God refers to angels, but in Genesis 6, sons of God refers to "fallen" angels?

Adam was created in the Image of God and was a direct son of God. When Adam's line is told, it states that they were in the image of Adam.

This is clear.


Sons of Adam are referred to as sons of men.


Jesus referred to Himself as The Son of man, which is a reference to a son of Adam.

Thus, they were also sons of God. This is to say that the direct decendents of Adam were considered sons of God, for they were in the image of Adam, who was the son of God created in Gods image.

This is where I will have to respectfully disagree with you.


If Adam would have remained sinless, like the example Jesus gave us, then I could believe this.

The image of God is sinless.

However as you know, a person who has a sin nature, can not reproduce a sinless offspring, which is why Jesus had to become flesh and die on the cross.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12


Since Adam and the fall, the only way to become a son of God is through faith in Jesus Christ.


For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26





ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Again, I don't care what anyone believes ..

I care.

Because I love my brothers and sisters in Christ, I want to be careful not to mislead anyone, especially concerning scritpture.

You posted Jude 6-7 and I posted the continuation Jude 10:11

I don't understand your point.

The point I made was Jude referred to angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode.

Since this statement came in context with his quote from Enoch, in the previous verse 4, to me, it is clear that the angels he referred to were the ones during the days of Noah.

If you believe Jude was referring to some other angels, other than the ones who left their domain during the days of Noah, then please tell me which ones, so I can study those scriptures, and see from your perspective.


4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
Jude 4-11





ME

 

[stovebolts]

Why would one believe that in Job, sons of God refers to angels, but in Genesis 6, sons of God refers to "fallen" angels?

Job is a Mashal in Jewish literature. This is similar to a Greek parable. However, a Mashal is much more than a parable in that the characters etc can be real or ficticious. In Jewish ideology, the intent of the story over rides the facts of the story.

As I stated earlier, most Jewish commentators who go with the line that gen 6 refers to fallen Angel's track back and tie into Lilith. You are more than welcome to go that route, but it wont happen on this forum if it's any more than reference material.

Jesus referred to Himself as The Son of man, which is a reference to a son of Adam.

I see it a little differently. Direct decendents of Adam where known as Sons of God. Aside from that, you were a son of man. Jesus is the new Adam., the first born over creation.

Free has already given reference to Israel being known as the son of God, and I would only add Exodus 4:23.

This is where I will have to respectfully disagree with you.

It is not only I you disagree with, but the Sages as well. If you choose to follow those who believe in Lilith, you may eventually find yourself also believing in those things.

If Adam would have remained sinless, like the example Jesus gave us, then I could believe

The image of God is sinless.

However as you know, a person who has a sin nature, can not reproduce a sinless offspring, which is why Jesus had to become flesh and die on the cross.

I don't buy into the doctrine of total depravity or the doctrine of the sin nature. God created man and he calls us good, for we are all in Adam. We all have freewill, which by nature allows us to be evil. We can do good, and we can do evil. We have a choice once we realize the difference.

Mary was not without sin. Jesus was the offspring of Mary, the daughter of men.

Since Adam and the fall, the only way to become a son of God is through faith in Jesus Christ.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

I believe scripture teaches us that Adam, created in Gods Image was Gods Son, and Adam's offspring was in the Image of Adam, which made them Sons of God.

Just as Adam had freewill to willfully be disobedient prior to the fall, his offspring also had freewill to be willfully disobedient. I believe they caused others to fall, for the sons of men looked up to them.

We know that we are sons and daughters of God through Jesus, and we share in His ressurectuon, even though we are also sons and daughters of men. We will die, but we will never see death.

Like Adam's offspring, we are sons and daughters of God, but this time through Jesus, who is God in the flesh. We can sin, just like Adam could prior to his fall. We also can fall, and we can even cause others to fall.

 

[brujaq]

I care.

Because I love my brothers and sisters in Christ, I want to be careful not to mislead anyone, especially concerning scritpture.




I don't understand your point.

The point I made was Jude referred to angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode.

Since this statement came in context with his quote from Enoch, in the previous verse 4, to me, it is clear that the angels he referred to were the ones during the days of Noah.

If you believe Jude was referring to some other angels, other than the ones who left their domain during the days of Noah, then please tell me which ones, so I can study those scriptures, and see from your perspective.


4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
Jude 4-11





ME

Actually I care that folks can make their choice .. And I acknowledge it can be confusing .. Are the devil and his fallen angels in chains or are they reserved for everlasting punishment ? We know for sure the devil will be bound for 1000 yrs for sure when Jesus returns then loosed then bound again to be finally out of our hair ..

God does not have grandsons and grandaughters, only sons and daughters .. At one time even Jesus own family seemed to think he was out of his mind .. Mark 3:21 , John 7:5 .. So even they become sons of God from sons of man .. There is a theme that runs through the whole bible not to take on idols (but no-one ever does that ) but be separate unto God otherwise which we take on or are influenced by demons (imo fallen angels ''with names'' under Satans authority) including sexual perversity among every other non sexual perversity .. But they are ultimately under authority of Gods Word . We wrestle against spiritual wickedness Ephesians 6:12 and angels are spirit , not flesh and blood but created not begotten .. And please don't take our disagreement personal , I think it is an important discussion .. The book of Jasher (which I also have no faith in) seems to have indicated sons of God were men, (not angels) who each made idols unto themselves as they become corrupt ..

In post #68 I posted quotes from the book of Enoch , your thoughts on those quotes ? Mine are Galations 5:9

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Direct decendents of Adam where known as Sons of God.

Says who?

Not Moses or the Holy Spirit, who refer to descendants of Adam as sons of men, or daughters of men.

that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. Genesis 6:2 NKJV


But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. Genesis 11:5


Of course if you decide to believe unbelieving Jews rather than the scriptures that is your perogative, but you won't catch me furthering that theory.

Personally, I haven't found a scripture in the old testament that refers to the descendants of Adam as sons of God.

From what I have studied, sons of God is a reference to angels.

Since the context, of Genesis 6 indicates the sons of God were angels, it would be reckless to teach otherwise.

Aside from that, you were a son of man.

The scripture refers to female descendants of Adam as daughters of men.


Genesis 6:2 contextually, refers to sons of God as angels, and daughters of men as descendants of Adam.



ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Are the devil and his fallen angels in chains or are they reserved for everlasting punishment ?

Not yet.

We know for sure the devil will be bound for 1000 yrs for sure when Jesus returns then loosed

Agreed

God does not have grandsons and grandaughters, only sons and daughters ..

OK

The book of Jasher (which I also have no faith in) seems to have indicated sons of God were men, (not angels) who each made idols unto themselves as they become corrupt ..

Ok, so let me ask you a question.


If a descendant of Adam is a son of God, then why do we need to be born again, which is a reference to being born of God?

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1



Do you believe sons of God, humans, can be sent to hell?




ME

 

[brujaq]

Not yet.




Agreed





OK





Ok, so let me ask you a question.


If a descendant of Adam is a son of God, then why do we need to be born again, which is a reference to being born of God?

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1



Do you believe sons of God, humans, can be sent to hell?




ME

God does not have grandsons or grandaughters, only sons and daughters .. Folks who are sons and daughters of God were held comfortably in paradise until Jesus fulfilled his work on the cross, went and preached to the saints in prison/hell when Jesus won the victory over death and hell once and for all .. Since then, we sleep in our graves waiting on Jesus return and our bodily resurrection if we are in Christ, the others will be resurrected at the final judgment .. Adam and Eve were created son and daughter of God then lost that status until they began to call on God again but had to wait for Jesus just like all who called on the name of the Lord .. Seth did, Cain didn't that we know of .. But Seths line had someone of his sons kept the lineage intact through to Noah .. As I mentioned in another post , Noahs father Lamech had other sons and daughters who I assume were alive and perished in the flood because they quit on God .. It came down to Noah being the only one left found to be righteous and preacher of his generation . I don't believe any fallen angels were drowned in the flood .. They remain through flood or hellfire eternal, same as mankind's spirit/soul except mans physical death takes us out of the game until the final judgment ..

 

[Maria E Abreu]

God does not have grandsons or grandaughters, only sons and daughters .

I have agreed with you on this statement already.

Folks who are sons and daughters of God were held comfortably in paradise until Jesus fulfilled his work on the cross, went and preached to the saints in prison/hell when Jesus won the victory over death and hell once and for all .

Agreed

Since then, we sleep in our graves waiting on Jesus return and our bodily resurrection if we are in Christ,

Our bodies sleep in the grave, but our spirit is with Him in heaven.

Adam and Eve were created son and daughter of God then lost that status until they began to call on God again but had to wait for Jesus just like all who called on the name of the Lord .. Seth did, Cain didn't that we know of .. But Seths line had someone of his sons kept the lineage intact through to Noah .. As I mentioned in another post , Noahs father Lamech had other sons and daughters who I assume were alive and perished in the flood because they quit on God .. It came down to Noah being the only one left found to be righteous and preacher of his generation .

So here is my question to you again.


Can a decendant of Adam, as a son of God be cast into hell?

I don't believe any fallen angels were drowned in the flood .. They remain through flood or hellfire eternal, same as mankind's spirit/soul except mans physical death takes us out of the game until the final judgment ..

I don't believe the sons of God, who were angels, during the days of Noah were drowned in the flood, which is why they continued to produce giants after the flood, because as angels, they were not able to be drowned.


Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:1-4 NKJV


Joshua and the children of Israel faced these giants when taking the promised land.




ME

 

[Free]

I don't believe the sons of God, who were angels, during the days of Noah were drowned in the flood, which is why they continued to produce giants after the flood, because as angels, they were not able to be drowned.

So, if I understand you correctly, you believe that these angels were not only able to have physical relations with women but were able to actually procreate, yet, as angels, "they were not able to be drowned". Would that be correct about what you believe?

 

[Maria E Abreu]

So, if I understand you correctly, you believe that these angels were not only able to have physical relations with women but were able to actually procreate, yet, as angels, "they were not able to be drowned". Would that be correct about what you believe?

Angels were not able to be drowned is correct.

If you believe natural water can drown an angel, then please explain how.


I have a question for you.


Can you explain how a spiritually dead male and female descendant of Adam, can reproduce a son of God?

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12 NKJV


A human being must be born of God, by the Holy Spirit to be a son of God, with the exception of Adam who was created by God Himself.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 NKJV




ME