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Spiritual causes of tragedies?

K

Kaliani

Member
I didn't want to derail Vanguard's Gun Control thread so I just wanted to ask in a new thread:

What could be the spiritual causes of senseless acts of violence?

ARE they senseless at all, from a spiritual viewpoint? Or are they coldly calculated and executed acts of non-material malevolent beings, who manage to completely take over the actions of a particularly weak person?

I am guessing this is the case.

Anyway, thoughts?
 
For clarity, while I think of 'monsters' like Lanza, etc to be weak, I don't consider them blameless. We all have a responsibility to keep dark forces from controlling us. And if we all took that responsibility seriously, the devil couldn't find a weakness in us to exploit in the first place. So they are at fault for not taking responsibility for themselves.
 
I know that the devil is alive and well and he is up to his usual killing stealing and destroying. I personally think he is not doing all he would like to do. The dominance of Christianity as a force for good slows him somewhat. With people falling away from Christianity this will open up more opportunity for the devil to continue his destruction.
 
Dr. Jeffress (pastor of the FBC Dallas) has a radio program, and I was listening on my way home tonight. He was speaking about this subject, and he said (in short) that God can use even evil for His purposes. God is NOT evil, and He doesn't cause evil, but He allows it to happen as part of His overall plan. So, it isn't a spiritual cause, but it has a spiritual benefit.
 
Thanks for the replies. Keep them coming.

If I were the devil, I would see to it that people forget or refuse to consider my part in these tragedies. I would try to get people to see EACH OTHER as the problem.

It seems as though he has succeeded time and again. Instead of uniting against him in the aftermath, people divide themselves into warring factions.

This ethnic group against that.

This ideology against that.

Hell is other people.

Why are we so easy to manipulate?!!
 
Kaliani said:
If I were the devil, I would see to it that people forget or refuse to consider my part in these tragedies. I would try to get people to see EACH OTHER as the problem.
Click to expand...

Even more than that, the devil wants us to blame GOD! How many times have you seen someone ask "Why did God do this?" or "If God is so good, why does he allow this to happen?" Rarely do we ever see anyone condemn the devil for all the evil in the world.
 
The best biblical passage on this subject is in Luke.
Luke 13 NASB
1 Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?
3 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
4 "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
​
Tragedies are not judgment on the victims, nor are they necessarily caused by spiritual issues, though certain people who walk into theaters, malls or school with the intent of murdering scores of people have a spiritual problem, without doubt.
 
The victims of tragedies are very frequently innocents. So this, to me, rules out the notion that it's God's justice at work.

Yet if there is a chink in our armour, if the devil smells blood, he WILL move in for the kill. He won't spare the innocents in his onslaught.

For that reason, I think it's responsible to err on the side of caution and treat these outrages as being possibly a result of some spiritual deficiency.
 
Not everything has to have a God vs. Satan based answer. Bad things happen because humans have the freedom of choice. There are biological and chemical factors that affect the way we think or rationalize things. Some people are just inherently evil, while others are mentally imbalanced. Far too often society wants to point the finger at a cause, place the blame, and speculate how and why something could happen. There's no need for a supernatural scapegoat. Look in the mirror and you'll see the reason why things happen. To think that God or some form of evil has influence on every decision and aspect of life is drivel. Talk about EXTREME micro-management. Do you really think God cares which shoes you decide to wear today? He's got bigger things to worry about.

Having said that, could God cause natural disasters to root out evil in certain places? Sure!
Could some people be possessed by evil and carry out a tragedy? Absolutely!

However, even Satan had to have God's permission before he could do anything toward Job and his family. So, based off that, the choice comes down to these options:

1. God allows/causes bad things to happen, which doesn't project the image of a very loving God.
2. Humans have free will and the freedom of choice, and bad things happen because of a choice that is made.

My belief is in #2. God is saddened by those choices and grieves for the innocents, but knows that the righteous will be called up to Heaven, and the wicked will be judged and cast into the lake of fire. I said this in another thread.

If God controls everything and we do not have free will, then what good is the judgment that Revelation speaks of when the dead are raised, because God would be judging Himself and what He allowed to happen.
 
I believe that unless someone receives a clear message from God, he had best not draw conclusions from any tragedy. This brings to mind when Pat Robertson made a public statement about God's wrath after the earth quake in Haiti. Unless he was given an unmistakable message from God to give to the world as a warning, he should not have presumed to know His mind. As the Doxology in Romans says, we don't know the mind of God.

We can know that there is spiritual warfare going on all around us and not take the leap in declaring someone is to blame for provoking God's punishment.
 
Thank you Mike and Vanguard.

For us to blame EACH OTHER is what I think the devil wants. So more feigned moral superiority and scapegoating is the last thing I want to see. No matter which 'side' I relate with more.

Because, looking at the bigger picture, 'sides' are relative. If they suffer, I will feel the pain and loss of the other 'side' so how can 'sides' possibly have any ultimate reality?

In any case, if you're vulnerable, how can I be so sure I am not too?
 
I guess I would like to believe that there are at least SOME things I need not suffer, some fruit that I need not reap, if only I could sow the right fruit.

Then if something does happen, I would be sure, like Job, that it isn't a consequence of my spiritual condition.

As it is, however, I cannot see how I can be sure. I am comfortable doing a lot of things and my culture where I live tolerates a lot of things that I just wonder about lately.
 
Vanguard said:
Not everything has to have a God vs. Satan based answer. Bad things happen because humans have the freedom of choice. There are biological and chemical factors that affect the way we think or rationalize things. Some people are just inherently evil, while others are mentally imbalanced. Far too often society wants to point the finger at a cause, place the blame, and speculate how and why something could happen. There's no need for a supernatural scapegoat. Look in the mirror and you'll see the reason why things happen. To think that God or some form of evil has influence on every decision and aspect of life is drivel. Talk about EXTREME micro-management. Do you really think God cares which shoes you decide to wear today? He's got bigger things to worry about.

Having said that, could God cause natural disasters to root out evil in certain places? Sure!
Could some people be possessed by evil and carry out a tragedy? Absolutely!

However, even Satan had to have God's permission before he could do anything toward Job and his family. So, based off that, the choice comes down to these options:

1. God allows/causes bad things to happen, which doesn't project the image of a very loving God.
2. Humans have free will and the freedom of choice, and bad things happen because of a choice that is made.

My belief is in #2. God is saddened by those choices and grieves for the innocents, but knows that the righteous will be called up to Heaven, and the wicked will be judged and cast into the lake of fire. I said this in another thread.

If God controls everything and we do not have free will, then what good is the judgment that Revelation speaks of when the dead are raised, because God would be judging Himself and what He allowed to happen.
Click to expand...
Grace to you,
As I read the book of "Job" it appears that all people in this world have been marked by God to only allow Satan and the Principalities to do only what is allowed by the level of our MARK that has been placed on each and every 1 of us. It appears if the MARK of God is removed completely death will come in some way that allows God to get the glory. So I know longer think it is permission Satan must get. Your thoughts?
 
Kaliani said:
I didn't want to derail Vanguard's Gun Control thread so I just wanted to ask in a new thread:

What could be the spiritual causes of senseless acts of violence?

ARE they senseless at all, from a spiritual viewpoint? Or are they coldly calculated and executed acts of non-material malevolent beings, who manage to completely take over the actions of a particularly weak person?

I am guessing this is the case.

Anyway, thoughts?
Click to expand...

from a spiritual view i say there isn't really a spiritual being that takes over their body and causes them to do band things however it is people not having a spiritual presence in god that leads them astray causes them to cary out such travoises.
 
americanfighter said:
from a spiritual view i say there isn't really a spiritual being that takes over their body and causes them to do band things
Click to expand...

But how come it is sane, productive members of society who carried out things like the witch trials, the crusades, the Holocaust and ethnic cleansing via machete?

Why do SANE people go so absolutely crazy?
 
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