Stars of Heaven

[sdktlk]

sdk:



I am not a sis, and yes the earth can withstand anything if its God's will for it to. These occurrences will be supernatural and under the government of a Sovereign God.. I don't even think that the bible states that the stars actually fall into the earth, they may not even hit the earth, but the main thought is that there will cataclysmic disruption or disturbance in the heavens..

My mistake, I apologize. [FONT=Georgia, serif]Revelation 6:12-14 - “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]and the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]stars[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]†(Rev 6:12-14)

The Greek word in the text interpreted unto, is eis, and is a primary preposition meaning to or into (indicating the point reached or entered.) These stars, it states plainly, they will fall to the earth.
[/FONT]

 

[sdktlk]

sdk:



I am not a sis, and yes the earth can withstand anything if its God's will for it to. These occurrences will be supernatural and under the government of a Sovereign God.. I don't even think that the bible states that the stars actually fall into the earth, they may not even hit the earth, but the main thought is that there will cataclysmic disruption or disturbance in the heavens..

My mistake, I apologize. [FONT=Georgia, serif]Revelation 6:12-14 - “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]and the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]stars[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]†(Rev 6:12-14)

The Greek word in the text interpreted unto, is eis, and is a primary preposition meaning to or into (indicating the point reached or entered.) These stars, it states plainly, will fall to the earth.
[/FONT]

 

[sdktlk]

Stars are literal & "stars" are used prophetically or figuratively. In fact, the sun, moon & stars are prophetic terms also & from the OT, we can compare its uses.

These are prophetically symbols of authority in society, both political & religious. The sun denotes the chief authority (the "Sun" will rise with healing in His wings-Mal.4) the moon the next authority & the stars are the nobles. (see Gen.37:5-10 for its original meaning) Nowhere is this made clear than in Dan8:10 & how Antiochus E. took some of the "stars" from heaven (the faithful of Israel)
Stars falling from heaven denote the destruction of nobility. Stars, moon & sun not giving their light denotes authorities having their rule taken away.(Mt.24:30)
It goes on with other apocalyptic & prophetic language about stars & cosmic earth eruptions in hyperbolic expressions of the prophets in Revelation.

Dan 8:10 - "Antiochus E. took some of the "stars" from heaven (the faithful of Israel)" Here, because of the fact that we recognize that Daniel 8:10 is a symbolic prophetic utterance we rightly determine that the "stars" referenced are God's people.

There is much that could be discussed with respect to Daniel 8:10, and that is altogether another matter. The point being if they are God's people there how can I make them not be God's children in the middle of another symbolic prophetic utterance? That, in and of itself does despite to the Scriptures.

 

[Lehigh3]

sdltlk, literal stars falling!!!
Ridiculous! You even started this thread with a link that uses "symbolism" Where in the cosmos did you confound yourself with the literal ADJECTIVES?!

There is apocalyptic , PROPHETIC hyperboles being used to describe the destruction of a nation by God.

Sometimes there are convulsions on the earth described & sometimes in the cosmos.

I do not agree with your categorizing the OT as "the Natural" & the NT as the spiritual. Gen37, the eleven stars" are indeed the 12 tribes & God's chosen. As spiritual as any NT category. Dan 8:10- the stars that fell from heaven were God's chosen of Israel also- they lost their lives to Antiochus E. Again, spiritual. So natural/spiritual is irrelevant. That has to do with man's state of sin in Adam & redeemed in Christ. (faith)

From eschatology.com/apocalyptic language:
Heb.1:1,6
"through whom he made the universe," which translation is misleading. The KJV translates "by whom also he made the worlds." This text speaks of "ages" in the Greek text, not "worlds."6 Just a perusal of the Book of Hebrews reveals that the "ages" represent the old covenant and new covenant ages. Christians today are not living in the "last days," but rather they are living in the age of grace.
The English word world is employed again in 1:6 (KJV). But the Greek word is ïêïõìíç (oikoumenh, "inhabited [earth]), Roman Empire"), not áí (aiwn, "age"). The author of Hebrews does not employ the same Greek word that is translated "world" in 1:6 that is employed in 1:2. The writer pens: "And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world,7 he says, ‘Let all God’s angels worship him.’" dDeut. 32:43 (see Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint). The word that the author writes in 1:2 (aiwnas, "ages") is the same word that Jesus uses in His discourse about the destruction of Jerusalem in Matthew 24:3: "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. ‘Tell us,’ they said, ‘when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age [ôï á íïò, tou aiwnos]?’" Unfortunately, the KJV translates the word age as world in 24:3. The Greek word for world is ê óìïò (kosmos, "world" or "universe"). The Twelve were not inquiring about the end of the world (literal heavens and earth, but rather, they were asking about the end of the Old Covenant world of Judaism, that is to say, "the time of the end," not the "end of time" (see Daniel 12:4).

Again, Hebrews 1:10-12 sheds light on the earlier verses. Listen once more to the writer of Hebrews as he pens:

In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens11They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end." g are the work of your hands.

These words are reminiscent of the words of John in his Revelation book. He graphically depicts the final overthrow of Judah with similar apocalyptic language:

I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" (Revelation 6:12-17)

One is confronted with apocalyptic language that is descriptive of the overthrow, or downfall, of governments. Isaiah uses the same type imagery when he writes about the removable from power of Babylon (Isaiah 13:9-13) and Idumea (34:1-5). Isaiah writes with apocalyptic language that is similar to the author of the Book of Hebrews as well as the Book of Revelation by John. One should pay close attention to the following account of Babylon’s downfall by Isaiah:

See, the day of the Lord is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. 10The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. 11I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. 12I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. 13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his burning anger. (Isaiah 13:9-13)

This account of Babylon’s demise is referred to as "the day of the LORD is coming." Also, Isaiah speaks of the "rising sun" and the moon being "darkened." This removal of Babylon is referred to as the "heavens" trembling and the "earth" shaking, which comes about as a result of God’s wrath. Isaiah’s account of the fall of Idumea is also filled with apocalyptic language—the same language employed by John in his Revelation (Revelation 6:12-17) as he describes the defeat of apostate Judah. Once more, pay attention to Isaiah’s words:
This account of Babylon’s demise is referred to as "the day of the LORD is coming." Also, Isaiah speaks of the "rising sun" and the moon being "darkened." This removal of Babylon is referred to as the "heavens" trembling and the "earth" shaking, which comes about as a result of God’s wrath. Isaiah’s account of the fall of Idumea is also filled with apocalyptic language—the same language employed by John in his Revelation () as he describes the defeat of apostate Judah. Once more, pay attention to Isaiah’s words:Come near, you nations, and listen; pay attention, you peoples! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, the world, and all that comes out of it! 2The Lord is angry with all nations; his wrath is upon all their armies. He will totally destroy a them, he will give them over to slaughter. 3Their slain will be thrown out, their dead bodies will send up a stench; the mountains will be soaked with their blood. 4All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. 5My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed. (Isaiah 34:1-5)

This language is the same language that Jesus employed in His discourse on the "End of the Age" as recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Jesus alludes to Joel 2:28 when He says: "Immediately after the distress of those days, ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken"’ cIsaiah 13:10; 34:4 (Matthew 24:29). Joel, too, writes in apocalyptic language. The following citation from Joel should assist one in understanding more clearly the words of Jesus in Matthew 24.
Guest Author: Dallas Burdette On The Last Days | eschatology.org

 

[sdktlk]

sdltlk, literal stars falling!!!
Ridiculous! You even started this thread with a link that uses "symbolism" Where in the cosmos did you confound yourself with the literal ADJECTIVES?!

There is apocalyptic , PROPHETIC hyperboles being used to describe the destruction of a nation by God.

Sometimes there are convulsions on the earth described & sometimes in the cosmos.

I do not agree with your categorizing the OT as "the Natural" & the NT as the spiritual. Gen37, the eleven stars" are indeed the 12 tribes & God's chosen. As spiritual as any NT category. Dan 8:10- the stars that fell from heaven were God's chosen of Israel also- they lost their lives to Antiochus E. Again, spiritual. So natural/spiritual is irrelevant. That has to do with man's state of sin in Adam & redeemed in Christ. (faith)

From eschatology.com/apocalyptic language:
Heb.1:1,6
"through whom he made the universe," which translation is misleading. The KJV translates "by whom also he made the worlds." This text speaks of "ages" in the Greek text, not "worlds."6 Just a perusal of the Book of Hebrews reveals that the "ages" represent the old covenant and new covenant ages. Christians today are not living in the "last days," but rather they are living in the age of grace.
The English word world is employed again in 1:6 (KJV). But the Greek word is ïêïõìíç (oikoumenh, "inhabited [earth]), Roman Empire"), not áí (aiwn, "age"). The author of Hebrews does not employ the same Greek word that is translated "world" in 1:6 that is employed in 1:2. The writer pens: "And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world,7 he says, ‘Let all God’s angels worship him.’" dDeut. 32:43 (see Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint). The word that the author writes in 1:2 (aiwnas, "ages") is the same word that Jesus uses in His discourse about the destruction of Jerusalem in Matthew 24:3: "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. ‘Tell us,’ they said, ‘when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age [ôï á íïò, tou aiwnos]?’" Unfortunately, the KJV translates the word age as world in 24:3. The Greek word for world is ê óìïò (kosmos, "world" or "universe"). The Twelve were not inquiring about the end of the world (literal heavens and earth, but rather, they were asking about the end of the Old Covenant world of Judaism, that is to say, "the time of the end," not the "end of time" (see Daniel 12:4).

Again, Hebrews 1:10-12 sheds light on the earlier verses. Listen once more to the writer of Hebrews as he pens:

In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens11They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end." g are the work of your hands.

These words are reminiscent of the words of John in his Revelation book. He graphically depicts the final overthrow of Judah with similar apocalyptic language:

I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" (Revelation 6:12-17)

One is confronted with apocalyptic language that is descriptive of the overthrow, or downfall, of governments. Isaiah uses the same type imagery when he writes about the removable from power of Babylon (Isaiah 13:9-13) and Idumea (34:1-5). Isaiah writes with apocalyptic language that is similar to the author of the Book of Hebrews as well as the Book of Revelation by John. One should pay close attention to the following account of Babylon’s downfall by Isaiah:

See, the day of the Lord is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. 10The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. 11I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. 12I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. 13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his burning anger. (Isaiah 13:9-13)

This account of Babylon’s demise is referred to as "the day of the LORD is coming." Also, Isaiah speaks of the "rising sun" and the moon being "darkened." This removal of Babylon is referred to as the "heavens" trembling and the "earth" shaking, which comes about as a result of God’s wrath. Isaiah’s account of the fall of Idumea is also filled with apocalyptic language—the same language employed by John in his Revelation (Revelation 6:12-17) as he describes the defeat of apostate Judah. Once more, pay attention to Isaiah’s words:
This account of Babylon’s demise is referred to as "the day of the LORD is coming." Also, Isaiah speaks of the "rising sun" and the moon being "darkened." This removal of Babylon is referred to as the "heavens" trembling and the "earth" shaking, which comes about as a result of God’s wrath. Isaiah’s account of the fall of Idumea is also filled with apocalyptic language—the same language employed by John in his Revelation () as he describes the defeat of apostate Judah. Once more, pay attention to Isaiah’s words:Come near, you nations, and listen; pay attention, you peoples! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, the world, and all that comes out of it! 2The Lord is angry with all nations; his wrath is upon all their armies. He will totally destroy a them, he will give them over to slaughter. 3Their slain will be thrown out, their dead bodies will send up a stench; the mountains will be soaked with their blood. 4All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. 5My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed. (Isaiah 34:1-5)

This language is the same language that Jesus employed in His discourse on the "End of the Age" as recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Jesus alludes to Joel 2:28 when He says: "Immediately after the distress of those days, ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken"’ cIsaiah 13:10; 34:4 (Matthew 24:29). Joel, too, writes in apocalyptic language. The following citation from Joel should assist one in understanding more clearly the words of Jesus in Matthew 24.
Guest Author: Dallas Burdette On The Last Days | eschatology.org

I'm not sure where the "confusion" came in. My statement from the beginning of this thread has been that the "stars" are symbolic. I have not stated that they are literal stars.

 

[Lehigh3]

I'm not sure where the "confusion" came in. My statement from the beginning of this thread has been that the "stars" are symbolic. I have not stated that they are literal stars.

My apologies. It looks like savedbygrace57 is the culprit!
He has posted a link from a teaching about "the physical shakeup up the heavens" - which is clearly misguided.

The age change with the apocalyptic destruction in prophetic terms against the harlot (Jerusalem after the flesh) is the focus of the old covenant having waxed old &" heaven & earth" (here the Jewish polity) passes away & New Jerusalem spiritually & prophetically comes down from heaven.

 

[xounstaer]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Matthew 24:29 - “[FONT=Georgia, serif]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]stars[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].â€[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mark 13:24-25 - “[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]and the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]stars[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].â€[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Revelation 6:12-14 - “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]and the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]stars[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]†(Rev 6:12-14)[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]What is meant by these Scriptures? Are the stars the literal stars in the sky, or do they symbolically stand from somethings or some ones?[/FONT]

i have red the first reply and the one ebove this..

i gues this is a good and wise advice that for those who believe in the one from god who once has stated("no man will ever again see the sun the way it is cause i saw the sun)

it should be the way it (the sun) was'.

since this is endtime and 'prophecy. i say what do we or i go do now now if said i've seen the tail told and untold and told again with more exact meaning(s).

so yes did i. i did cause along. along i go knwing i have allready said so. so i shouldnt post underneat ehd time and prophecy's again? (/jona/job/prediker)

i can quotem sure i can but do i need to. i mean get some qoutes, and i'll do,, or confirm them or if possible keep it intact at least, or am against whats said(after all').


right now i am still in the dessert with mozes or so and when its time again for the bible i carrie on, that will be the first time i read it front to back instead of the bottem or backside first...so i am not like reading it for a whil, i love everything theough and really wont read untill.

 

[Sinthesis]

No constraints to any particular point of view. The stars that we are looking at are NT stars. Therefore, we must see what the spiritual NT, not the natural OT, significance is. If we only use what the Lord has said with respect to stars in Revelation 1:20, and couple that with a second witness in Jude, "certain men...ungodly men...(v.4)...Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever." (v.13)

Further more, if we do use the reference in Judges 5:20 it is a victory song of Deborah and Barak with regard to how the stars, the leaders of God's people, had gotten the victory. So, even in that case, we see it is referring to people.

These two witnesses give us the understanding that stars point to humans associated with the assembly, that is the Church. We see it written, "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1Cor 2:13)

Furthermore, even if we did use the reference out of Judges 5:20 we see that it is a victory song sung be Deborah and Barak regarding how the stars, the leaders of God's people, had gotten the victory over the enemy. It too is a reference to people.

So are you having a problem accepting the 'stars' of Matthew 24:29/Mark 13:24-25 as 'the leaders of God's people'? If so, why?

 

[sdktlk]

So are you having a problem accepting the 'stars' of Matthew 24:29/Mark 13:24-25 as 'the leaders of God's people'? If so, why?

No - that was my statement from the beginning: that the "stars" are symbolic of the leaders, the shepherds, the overseers of God's children is exactly what they stand for. Which is in line with the words of the Lord in Rev 1:20, "The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches."

 

[Sinthesis]

No - that was my statement from the beginning: that the "stars" are symbolic of the leaders, the shepherds, the overseers of God's children is exactly what they stand for. Which is in line with the words of the Lord in Rev 1:20, "The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches."

The leaders of God's people or the overseers of God's children? They are not necessarily the same.

 

[sdktlk]

The leaders of God's people or the overseers of God's children? They are not necessarily the same.

OT - Leaders of God's people. NT - Overseers of God's children.

 

[Sinthesis]

OT - Leaders of God's people. NT - Overseers of God's children.

Exactly when and how do you see this change happening?

 

[sdktlk]

Exactly when and how do you see this change happening?

It happens (happened) as it is written of the Lord Jesus, "Then said He, Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second." (Heb 10:9) Under the old covenant the leaders of God's people would be symbolically "stars." Under the new covenant the overseers of God's children would then be the "stars."

In both instances the stars are the ones chosen of God to the be the shepherds of the "flock."

 

[Sinthesis]

It happens (happened) as it is written of the Lord Jesus, "Then said He, Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second." (Heb 10:9) Under the old covenant the leaders of God's people would be symbolically "stars." Under the new covenant the overseers of God's children would then be the "stars."

In both instances the stars are the ones chosen of God to the be the shepherds of the "flock."

OK, exactly when and how did you see this change happening?

 

[sdktlk]

OK, exactly when and how did you see this change happening?

Maybe I'm missing something in your question? "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." (1Cor 15:46) The change took place, with respect to who the stars symbolize, when under the New Covenant we are instructed to, "compare spiritual things with spiritual." (1Cor 2:13)

 

[Sinthesis]

Maybe I'm missing something in your question? "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." (1Cor 15:46) The change took place, with respect to who the stars symbolize, when under the New Covenant we are instructed to, "compare spiritual things with spiritual." (1Cor 2:13)

Are there still natural stars or only spiritual stars? Both? Are there any spiritual stars yet? Do you know the difference? If you do then you actually know when and how this change happened, even if you don't realize it yet.

 

[Stormcrow]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Matthew 24:29 - “[FONT=Georgia, serif]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]stars[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].â€[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mark 13:24-25 - “[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]and the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]stars[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].â€[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Revelation 6:12-14 - “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]and the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]stars[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]†(Rev 6:12-14)[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]What is meant by these Scriptures? Are the stars the literal stars in the sky, or do they symbolically stand from somethings or some ones?
[/FONT]

Look at these verses:

Ge 26:4, Dt 1:10, Dt 10:22, Dt 28:62, 1Ch 27:23, Ne 9:23, Heb 11:12.

Now, with these verses in mind, look at this:

Da 8:10.

"Stars of heaven" is an oft-used metaphor for the Children of Israel.

Here's something else to consider while we're on the subject of metaphors and idioms:

"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." Matthew 24:29 (NASB)

You will find the same or very similar language in every instance in the OT where a nation is brought under God's judgment. Here are the OT parallel passages:

Isa. 13:10, Eze. 32:7, Joel 2:10, 31, 3:15, Amos 5:20, 8:9, Zeph. 1:15.

Now if you connect the dots, you'll begin to see what Christ was saying in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Revelation. I believe these NT passages are all linked, but not in the manner in which most people believe they are due to an egregious misinterpretation of Daniel 9:27.

Hope this helps.

P.S. I'm new to this forum. Hello and thanks for having me!

 

[Stormcrow]

Rev 18v21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Just to keep the language consistent:

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. Revelation 18:21 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Matthew 24:1-2 (KJV)

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Matthew 23:34-38 (KJV)

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Luke 21:20-22 (KJV)

Given the passages from Matthew 23 and Luke 21, who is the "Mystery Babylon" of Revelation 18?

Here's the clue:

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Revelation 18:24 (KJV)

And the answer:

31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. 32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. 33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. 34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Luke 13:31-35 (KJV)

There is only one that was found in heaven and earth worthy to execute judgment upon Jerusalem. See Revelation 5.

And another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

So much to write. So little time.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lehigh3]

Just to keep the language consistent:

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. Revelation 18:21 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Matthew 24:1-2 (KJV)

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Matthew 23:34-38 (KJV)

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Luke 21:20-22 (KJV)

Given the passages from Matthew 23 and Luke 21, who is the "Mystery Babylon" of Revelation 18?

Here's the clue:

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Revelation 18:24 (KJV)

And the answer:

31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. 32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. 33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. 34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Luke 13:31-35 (KJV)

There is only one that was found in heaven and earth worthy to execute judgment upon Jerusalem. See Revelation 5.

And another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

So much to write. So little time.

Hope this helps.

Stormcrow, wow, excellent! We agree entirely. Nice to see some identify Mystery Babylon properly!
(Anyway, I am full Preterist. )

And welcome!

 

[sdktlk]

Are there still natural stars or only spiritual stars? Both? Are there any spiritual stars yet? Do you know the difference? If you do then you actually know when and how this change happened, even if you don't realize it yet.

Of course there are both natural and spiritual stars. If we go outside at night, and the sky is clear, we can verify the natural ones existence. ;)

The spiritual stars of heaven began to fall almost immediately, in the days of the early Church. In 313 A.D., with the Edit of Milan by the Roman Emperor Constantine making the church the state religion the stars were quickly tumbling from heaven. In 533 A.D. the Emperor Justinian declared the pope head of all churches, and in 538 A.D., with the removal of the last arian horn from the city of Rome and the giving of Rome as the seat of the Holy Roman Empire ALL the stars of Heaven had fallen to the earth. This was the culmination of, "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Rev 6:13) It is also that which the Lord Jesus was speaking of when He said, "And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken." (Mar 13:25)

There is another "falling" referenced thus, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." (Mat 24:29)

This falling is also set forth in Revelation 8:12, "And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

The word part is an added word and this verse reads literally, from the Greek, "[FONT=Georgia, serif]And the fourth angel sounded, and the thirds sun was smitten, [/FONT] [FONT=Georgia, serif]and the thirds moon, and the thirds stars; so that might be darkened them of the third, and the [/FONT] [FONT=Georgia, serif]thirds day not shine of it, and likewise the night."

Of course then we would need to understand what is meant by "the thirds."
[/FONT]