Stars of Heaven

[Hitch]

The context seems to imply that Jesus was describing meteorites,however I suppose that it is possible that the falling stars could be the angels being cast out of the demonic heaven(their residence)at the end of the age when the antichrist is in power. Jesus was speaking literally when He described the sun going dark and the moon being affected,so whether the stars or meteorites or angels it will be something that literally happens and will be seen and experienced by the whole world.

LOL Now that a curious mixture

 

[Quinoa]

Actually Pete said that Joel's word was fulfilled.

But this is really cute. You claim to be a literalist in the same breath you say stars are not stars but meteors, and the sun ,,well the sun shines just as brightly during an eclipse.:biglol

Thanks for your input. When Pete said that Joel's word was fulfilled, what was he refferring to?

 

[Hitch]

Thanks for your input. When Pete said that Joel's word was fulfilled, what was he refferring to?

The event is recorded in Acts 2;14-22.

 

[warfrog]

The event is recorded in Acts 2;14-22.

So how come you dont understand that "before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord?"

Peter just told you what had to happen from that day on, first the Spirit given, which from that day onwards has been given to His, prophecy, which i hold in my hand right now, the Word of God, wonders in heaven and signs in the earth, which have also been going on and will drastically impulse to the coming of the day of the Lord, sun turning to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord, as it is said several times throughout scripture, yet you say it is done? it never ended, the Lord never returned yet...so why do you say it 70 A.D was fullfillment when the scriptures you place yourself in this thread confirm that it has in fact not happened? The Spirit is given, dreams and visions and prophecy is given as it was declared on that day, and all who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ are saved as it is written, the signs have been and continue to be given as the rest, even the sun has been darkened and the moon turned to blood many many times, yet the Lord has not returned, so why do you say 70 A.D was fullfillment, when it wasnt completement?
Peter speaks of the beginning of the grace of the Holy Spirit given to His, they thought they were drunk but Peter rebukes them through the Holy Spirit and tells them exactly what is going on, the Spirit is given, the dreams, the visions the prophecy will begin, the signs in heaven and earth and most importantly all who call on the Lord shall be saved, starts right here, that is what he was telling them, from here on out the promise of the Helper will be given to all of His and he tells them the end of it, which is the first resurrection, the great and awesome day of the Lord, which has not happened yet, the Spirit, the Helper, is still being given and dreams,visions,signs,prophecy, all things mentioned continue because the end will not come until the Lord returns, we are not directly in the kingdom, the kingdom is in us because the Spirit resides in His, but the inheritance comes at His return when He gathers His unto Him, when corruption takes on incorruption, when that occurs the signs,dreams,visions, prophecy from the body of man through the Holy Spirit will end, because the perfection is completed, we are given the same body as Christ, my Lord, was risen in.

Did not occur in 70 A.D, Christ did not return. Joel continues as Peter was stating the start of it all which was the giving of the Holy Spirit, what will occur during the reception of the Holy Spirit and how it will end at the great and awesome day of the Lord. When the gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease because they wont be needed anymore, perfection will be given, therefore we will not require the Helper.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hitch]

So how come you dont understand that "before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord?"

Peter just told you what had to happen from that day on, first the Spirit given, which from that day onwards has been given to His, prophecy, which i hold in my hand right now, the Word of God, wonders in heaven and signs in the earth, which have also been going on and will drastically impulse to the coming of the day of the Lord, sun turning to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord, as it is said several times throughout scripture, yet you say it is done? it never ended, the Lord never returned yet...so why do you say it 70 A.D was fullfillment when the scriptures you place yourself in this thread confirm that it has in fact not happened? The Spirit is given, dreams and visions and prophecy is given as it was declared on that day, and all who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ are saved as it is written, the signs have been and continue to be given as the rest, even the sun has been darkened and the moon turned to blood many many times, yet the Lord has not returned, so why do you say 70 A.D was fullfillment, when it wasnt completement?
Peter speaks of the beginning of the grace of the Holy Spirit given to His, they thought they were drunk but Peter rebukes them through the Holy Spirit and tells them exactly what is going on, the Spirit is given, the dreams, the visions the prophecy will begin, the signs in heaven and earth and most importantly all who call on the Lord shall be saved, starts right here, that is what he was telling them, from here on out the promise of the Helper will be given to all of His and he tells them the end of it, which is the first resurrection, the great and awesome day of the Lord, which has not happened yet, the Spirit, the Helper, is still being given and dreams,visions,signs,prophecy, all things mentioned continue because the end will not come until the Lord returns, we are not directly in the kingdom, the kingdom is in us because the Spirit resides in His, but the inheritance comes at His return when He gathers His unto Him, when corruption takes on incorruption, when that occurs the signs,dreams,visions, prophecy from the body of man through the Holy Spirit will end, because the perfection is completed, we are given the same body as Christ, my Lord, was risen in.

Did not occur in 70 A.D, Christ did not return. Joel continues as Peter was stating the start of it all which was the giving of the Holy Spirit, what will occur during the reception of the Holy Spirit and how it will end at the great and awesome day of the Lord. When the gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease because they wont be needed anymore, perfection will be given, therefore we will not require the Helper.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

What kind of an idiot would think Pete was talking about the return of Chirst?

 

[warfrog]

What kind of an idiot would think Pete was talking about the return of Chirst?

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Sam21]

So how come you dont understand that "before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord?"

Peter just told you what had to happen from that day on, first the Spirit given, which from that day onwards has been given to His, prophecy, which i hold in my hand right now, the Word of God, wonders in heaven and signs in the earth, which have also been going on and will drastically impulse to the coming of the day of the Lord, sun turning to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord, as it is said several times throughout scripture, yet you say it is done? it never ended, the Lord never returned yet...so why do you say it 70 A.D was fullfillment when the scriptures you place yourself in this thread confirm that it has in fact not happened? The Spirit is given, dreams and visions and prophecy is given as it was declared on that day, and all who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ are saved as it is written, the signs have been and continue to be given as the rest, even the sun has been darkened and the moon turned to blood many many times, yet the Lord has not returned, so why do you say 70 A.D was fullfillment, when it wasnt completement?
Peter speaks of the beginning of the grace of the Holy Spirit given to His, they thought they were drunk but Peter rebukes them through the Holy Spirit and tells them exactly what is going on, the Spirit is given, the dreams, the visions the prophecy will begin, the signs in heaven and earth and most importantly all who call on the Lord shall be saved, starts right here, that is what he was telling them, from here on out the promise of the Helper will be given to all of His and he tells them the end of it, which is the first resurrection, the great and awesome day of the Lord, which has not happened yet, the Spirit, the Helper, is still being given and dreams,visions,signs,prophecy, all things mentioned continue because the end will not come until the Lord returns, we are not directly in the kingdom, the kingdom is in us because the Spirit resides in His, but the inheritance comes at His return when He gathers His unto Him, when corruption takes on incorruption, when that occurs the signs,dreams,visions, prophecy from the body of man through the Holy Spirit will end, because the perfection is completed, we are given the same body as Christ, my Lord, was risen in.

Did not occur in 70 A.D, Christ did not return. Joel continues as Peter was stating the start of it all which was the giving of the Holy Spirit, what will occur during the reception of the Holy Spirit and how it will end at the great and awesome day of the Lord. When the gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease because they wont be needed anymore, perfection will be given, therefore we will not require the Helper.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Good post and very good description of what Peter was refering to...it is not really that hard to understand is it?

 

[Lehigh3]

Peter was quoting Joel & saying that this is what & the last days that the prophet Joel spoke of.

Men & women are born-again not bc of a general pouring out of the Holy Spirit - but bc of the gospel of Christ. The Holy Spirit is indeed understood as a regenerator of our little man spirit.

These "visions" & "dreams" & "prophecies" have ceased. They were for the pioneers of the church prior to Lord's coming in AD70, as the Scripture proves. Amen.

Acts 2 NKJV,
1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a] in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.The Crowd’s Response


5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.†12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?â€
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.â€Peter’s Sermon


14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’ [b]

22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken[c] by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:


‘ I foresaw the LORD always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’[d]

29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,[e] 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:


‘ The LORD said to my Lord,

“ Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.â€â€™[f]

36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.â€
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?â€
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.â€A Vital Church Grows


40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.†41 Then those who gladly[g] received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church[h] daily those who were being saved.Footnotes:

1. Acts 2:1 NU-Text reads together.
2. Acts 2:21 Joel 2:28–32
3. Acts 2:23 NU-Text omits have taken.
4. Acts 2:28 Psalm 16:8–11
5. Acts 2:30 NU-Text omits according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ and completes the verse with He would seat one on his throne.
6. Acts 2:35 Psalm 110:1
7. Acts 2:41 NU-Text omits gladly.
8. Acts 2:47 NU-Text omits to the church.

 

[warfrog]

Peter was quoting Joel & saying that this is what & the last days that the prophet Joel spoke of.

Men & women are born-again not bc of a general pouring out of the Holy Spirit - but bc of the gospel of Christ. The Holy Spirit is indeed understood as a regenerator of our little man spirit.

These "visions" & "dreams" & "prophecies" have ceased. They were for the pioneers of the church prior to Lord's coming in AD70, as the Scripture proves. Amen

Agreed your not saved because of the Holy Spirit ( i have to clarify what i mean by this, you are actually saved by the Holy Spirit because it is the Spirit of God, however its through the Spirit of God in His Son, my Lord, Jesus the Christ), you are saved because of Christ who did the will of the Father and was our Redeemer, however, you are not His without the Holy Spirit, the Helper, noone who is His does not have the promise of the Holy Spirit and the workings of God through His by the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit have not ceased and will not cease until the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

They certianly did not stop and will not stop until we no longer require the Helper which isnt until the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Lehigh3]

Agreed your not saved because of the Holy Spirit, you are saved because of Christ who did the will of the Father and was our Redeemer, however, you are not His without the Holy Spirit, the Helper, noone who is His does not have the promise of the Holy Spirit and the workings of God through His by the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit have not ceased and will not cease until the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

They certianly did not stop and will not stop until we no longer require the Helper which isnt until the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This has already occurred as Peter said "this is that which was prophesied by Joel."
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’ [b]
Now, there are other "gifts of the Spirit" which God gives as He chooses. But these occurred - they are not the same as the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor. 12- or are they the same as Christ's gifts to men for the church (apostles, teachers, etc)

Hope you can understand the Scripture a little better now.

 

[warfrog]

This has already occurred as Peter said "this is that which was prophesied by Joel."
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’ [b]
Now, there are other "gifts of the Spirit" which God gives as He chooses. But these occurred - they are not the same as the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor. 12- or are they the same as Christ's gifts to men for the church (apostles, teachers, etc)

Hope you can understand the Scripture a little better now.

I do, those around them thought they were drunk when they saw the speaking of tongues on the reception of the Holy Spirit.
Peter then prophecies and brings up Joel
He starts it off by explaining exactly what was going on as was prophesied by Joel, the recieving of the Holy Spirit and gifts of the Spirit in the latter days.
Joel not only prophesied about that day in which Paul would stand and show Joel, Joel and Peter both show the start, as Peter confirms it, the workings, which Peter and all with him who recieved the Holy Spirit are doing and what will occur throughout times until the Lord returns, and further shows that end just mentioned, when the start of the prophecy will end, which is on that great and awesome day of the Lord, which further in scripture we know as the first resurrection, the second coming of Christ, the gathering of the saints and the day in which corrupton takes on incorruption and body obtains perfection.

Peter told them, were not drunk this is what Joel was speaking of, this is the start,the reception of the Helper, the workings of the Holy Spirit in men and the end of Joels prophecy which is the end of the need of the Helper and the last but most important part mentioned is that all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Grace to you peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Sam21]

This has already occurred as Peter said "this is that which was prophesied by Joel."
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’ [b]
Now, there are other "gifts of the Spirit" which God gives as He chooses. But these occurred - they are not the same as the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor. 12- or are they the same as Christ's gifts to men for the church (apostles, teachers, etc)

Hope you can understand the Scripture a little better now.

Sigh! Peter was speaking of the Holy Spirit being given to the disciples of Christ and how the Spirit would work through them,and also the time of Christ return when the heavens are shaken,if you are a disciple of Christ then it is for you...this is so easy to recognize and understand,you would have to work at being confused to miss it.

 

[Lehigh3]

Sigh! Peter was speaking of the Holy Spirit being given to the disciples of Christ and how the Spirit would work through them,and also the time of Christ return when the heavens are shaken,if you are a disciple of Christ then it is for you...this is so easy to recognize and understand,you would have to work at being confused to miss it.

No sighs needed!
Peter is reiterating what Jesus said in Matthew 24. This applies to his Jewish brethren:
Matthew 24:29-31 (New King James Version)

The Coming of the Son of Man


29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Same as
Malachi 4

The Great Day of God

1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,â€
Says the LORD of hosts,

“ That will leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,â€
Says the LORD of hosts.
4 “ Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.â€

 

[Hitch]

Sigh! Peter was speaking of the Holy Spirit being given to the disciples of Christ and how the Spirit would work through them,and also the time of Christ return when the heavens are shaken,if you are a disciple of Christ then it is for you...this is so easy to recognize and understand,you would have to work at being confused to miss it.

Pete didnt say a word about Christ coming back. Pete did say 6 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

And went on he quote the prophecy ,in apostolic mitre, and apply it directly to the event at hand,ie speaking in tongues with visible flames of fire. What you dont like it the example Pete gave by not even considering a literal view.

Pete knew the return of the Lord was not going to happen soon and the Holy Spirit knew it would not happen for thousands of years. There is no indication Pete spoke of it all and no reason he should.

 

[Lehigh3]

No. A thousand years was like a day to the Lord also -

The millennium was 40 yrs.- just like Israel in the wilderness again-

1Pet.4:7,

7 But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.

Audience relevance. Peter was talking about the scoffers who said "where is the Promise of His coming?" Yet Peter said God was not slack as some count slackness- even though the patriarchs were 1500 yrs. ago- God is not slack about the promise He made to us (them)....... Salvation has come! Repent & believe the gospel!

Got it? Peter lived to about AD65. He would put off his earthly tent just as the Lord told him. The fiery trial those were under was told to them by Christ.

 

[Sinthesis]

The millennium was 40 yrs.- just like Israel in the wilderness again-

Just so everyone knows, not all preterist leaners believe this about the millennium.

 

[Hitch]

Just so everyone knows, not all preterist leaners believe this about the millennium.

I would guess it is an extreme minority position.

 

[warfrog]

Just so everyone knows, not all preterist leaners believe this about the millennium.

Heh, yeah not all "futurist" believe the exact same as the others either, goes both ways, theres so many small divisions of differential interpretations among both "historcist/pastist and futurist" interpretations its quite frustrating and impossible to know what each individual sees in slightly different ways lol.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Lehigh3]

Just so everyone knows, not all preterist leaners believe this about the millennium.

Just so everyone knows accurately, about 95-99% of Preterists do believe that time frame to be the "millennium"

 

[Sinthesis]

Just so everyone knows accurately, about 95-99% of Preterists do believe that time frame to be the "millennium"

Wow! That must mean I'm an Elite!