Should we feel sympathy for the good people burning in hell right now. For example, Gandhi, who seemed to live a good life and taught a good message, but was not a follower of Christ, is burning in hell. Does anyone else struggle with whether or not to feel sympathy for these type of people or should we just see it as that's what they deserve for not accepting God's gift of salvation?
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Sympathy for the Lost
- Thread starter joechrist
- Start date
Ed the Ned
Member
That is a hard question to bare as we are told to love our neighbor, and thats why we need to ensure that the gospel is preached to all men. I think what is important to realize though Gods wisdom is not mans wisdom and as you can see its not how wise a man is in this world that will lead him to salvation. The problem we have in society today is we have secular, paganistic and eastern beliefs creeping into the Christian doctrine that confuses and decieves many. Jesus said that the way to the father was a narrow road and we need to listen to him. People like Oprah have confused people by saying that there has to be another way to heaven and eternal life while claiming to be Christian. At the end of the day we are not God and we don't understand all the ways of God and should continue to pray for those who don't know the truth.
Tina
Member
^
1 Peter 3:19-20
through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
The above scriptures provide a glimpse of what takes place to the dead lost.
Perhaps people like Gandhi and Buddha may be saved after all ... :angel2 :angel3
1 Peter 3:19-20
through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
The above scriptures provide a glimpse of what takes place to the dead lost.
Perhaps people like Gandhi and Buddha may be saved after all ... :angel2 :angel3
jasoncran
Member
while it sad when a lost person dies, only the Lord knows truly if her or she is saved. The Lord has no joy in the death of the wicked, but that doesn't mean he wont judge us. If we die in Christ then were saved if not sadly we will be judged and sent to hell.
If Buddha and Ghandi could be redeemed it would be on the earth not in hell after the facts, any person who went to hell and was given a chance to live on the earth would do so, then if that's true why the cross, as Jesus would have been crucified for nothing, there's has to be punishment for sin, as it's God's charachter to judge sin, and to have mercy.
jason
If Buddha and Ghandi could be redeemed it would be on the earth not in hell after the facts, any person who went to hell and was given a chance to live on the earth would do so, then if that's true why the cross, as Jesus would have been crucified for nothing, there's has to be punishment for sin, as it's God's charachter to judge sin, and to have mercy.
jason
Remember the parable in Luke 16 about the rich man and Lazarus?
The rich man was being tormented in Hades, while Lazarus was comforted in Abraham's bosom. The rich man called out to Abraham saying 'have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.' But Abraham said 'Son, remember in your lifetime you received good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.
The rich man goes on to ask that Lazarus be permitted to return to warn his brothers, so that their fate not be the same as his. And Abraham responded, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' The rich man was sure they would repent if one raised from the dead appeared to them. Still Abraham said 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'
Notice that the rich man never once mentioned his own fate, or showed any remorse. He knew his choice was made, his fate sealed. He only begged for relief from the heat, and that his brothers might be saved from the torment he endured.
We make our choices in this life. That is why fervent prayer for the lost is necessary. I have family and friends who are lost, and it aches me to think of what eternity is their's if they do not repent. :bigcry
The rich man was being tormented in Hades, while Lazarus was comforted in Abraham's bosom. The rich man called out to Abraham saying 'have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.' But Abraham said 'Son, remember in your lifetime you received good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.
The rich man goes on to ask that Lazarus be permitted to return to warn his brothers, so that their fate not be the same as his. And Abraham responded, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' The rich man was sure they would repent if one raised from the dead appeared to them. Still Abraham said 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'
Notice that the rich man never once mentioned his own fate, or showed any remorse. He knew his choice was made, his fate sealed. He only begged for relief from the heat, and that his brothers might be saved from the torment he endured.
We make our choices in this life. That is why fervent prayer for the lost is necessary. I have family and friends who are lost, and it aches me to think of what eternity is their's if they do not repent. :bigcry
The parable about Lazarus and the rich man is a parable and is not literal; it is a parable about the Jewish people who were so rich with pride they rejected and shunned all the people that were not Jews. When Jesus spoke to these over self righteous people they understood and knew who He was speaking too.
ruby917 said:
ChevyRodeo
Member
I had this SAME conversation today!
I feel "good" and "bad" for the most are just man made words, either you are doing what God tells you to do or you are not, Those who repent sin and yearn for God go to Heaven. To China, Ghadi was "bad" yes? to the Germans Hitler was "good" yes?
I feel "good" and "bad" for the most are just man made words, either you are doing what God tells you to do or you are not, Those who repent sin and yearn for God go to Heaven. To China, Ghadi was "bad" yes? to the Germans Hitler was "good" yes?
F
follower of Christ
Guest
Having been very close to death myself a few years ago, I can tell you that there is a 'place' when the body is near death but the mind is still aware that is its own little realm of existence where it is quite possible for anything to happen.joechrist said:
Can we know for certain that Christ did not come to some of these WE think might be in hell and speak to them before they actually died ?
I am as far from UR as one can get, I do not believe that the soul who rejects salvation will attain it.
But I also do not believe that God will let even one slip away whom He knows would repent and come to Him willingly.
While I do feel sympathy for anyone who suffers, I personally believe that when we get there that we will be amazed to find folks that we would have never guessed would be there are actually there.
Just an opinion, tho.
As for those who do not want to be saved...I dont want them to suffer, but since Im not God I dont really have anything I can do about it...and Im not going to drive myself nuts because they rejected God when they should have embraced their Creator.
F
follower of Christ
Guest
And the fact that it is a story does not mean that it was not literal.Benoni said:
Whether it was about a literal man or not, the facts remain....it DOES show suffering and torment...something which is CONFIRMED in a lot of Jesus other teachings.
H
Heneni
Guest
joechrist said:
Hi joe! A few things come to mind. If people die and go to hell, why resurrect them and send them straight back?
Should we have sympathy for those who will go to the lake of fire? My understanding is that the lake of fire is the complete removal of man and satan and his angels to continue doing evil works. Their frustration in there is due to their desire to do evil, yet having no power to execute it. I wouldnt say I have sympathy for that part, but yes i do have sympathy for their lot in the sense that, they will not be experiencing life with god.
Ouch, Joe. Gandhi is burning in Hell right now? Really? You know that? I think that probably when the Bible teaches us not to judge others, it literally means do not pass judgement as to someone else's eternal fate.joechrist said:
And are you sure Ghandi was not a follower of Christ? Does "being in Christ" mean that one has to necessarily know Christ's name?
Ed the Ned
Member
- Blietzel
Ouch! Are we trying to blend other religions into the Christian faith to try and be more politically correct? I think we need to be a little more careful how we respond to the Christian doctrine. Was Ghandi a christian? To my best knowledge he was not and was a clear Hindu and followed the Hindu beliefs. Can someone follow eastern religion and still claim to be Christian. My answer would be NO! Would I need to know the name of my saviour to be saved YES! Please clarify your question so we may respond properly to it. What do you believe Being in Christ means?
My point is two-fold. First, we really shouldn't judge someone else's salvation position. We can judge someone else's actions to be sure, but for us to conjecture where someone else has wound up? For example, Hitler was responsible for the death of many million innocent victims. Those actions are wicked sins that are punishable by death as the scripture teaches. Would an unrepentant sinner who committed these acts be in Hell? We would surmise affirmatively. A. murder, B. unrepentance. What about Ghandi? Whom did he murder? What are his sins that we can condemn? I know not of any and I think that the purpose of the OP author in choosing this famous Hindu was to pick a famously "good" non-christian to use as the test subject. If someone has no sins that we know of, how can we say he's in hell?
Second, Paul wrote
Rom 2:12-16
"12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."
I think Paul is suggesting here that Gentiles who do not hear the law can still obey the law and receive salvation. Notice Paul's allusion to judgement day in verse 16. So even if Ghandi never uttered the word "Christ" from his lips, yet humbled himself to God, and repented from his sins and loved those around him, God might judge him apart from the law...
Second, Paul wrote
Rom 2:12-16
"12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."
I think Paul is suggesting here that Gentiles who do not hear the law can still obey the law and receive salvation. Notice Paul's allusion to judgement day in verse 16. So even if Ghandi never uttered the word "Christ" from his lips, yet humbled himself to God, and repented from his sins and loved those around him, God might judge him apart from the law...
Ed the Ned
Member
- wiki Answers
jesus said he was the only way to God and eternal life. If we start looking at a persons actions as his entrance into heaven we will be teaching a message that is not the true Gospel. We don't know if Gandhi repented or not, but I can assure you if he did not repent and ask God for forgiveness, he will not be having eternal life. I am not judging Gandhi I am stating the truth as written in the Bible. I have read Pauls message and I am inclined to believe it had nothing to do with a non christian, but a new christian that had come to faith and had not been subject to the teaching of the law, I do agree I need to research the passage a bit more and maybe my conclusions are wrong.
Research the Hindu religion and see how many gods they have and none of them are the true God.
Ah, very good points Ed. In John 14:6 Jesus said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.â€ÂEd the Ned said:
But how exactly is Jesus the way? He obviously is talking figuratively for certainly we do not pass through His physical body. So how should we understand this figuratively? One teaching would be that we must be His obedient followers, professing His name as our savior, and that if we were to know Jesus and His teachings and yet shun Him and profess another as our savior, certainly we would not be following Jesus as the way, truth, and life. By knowing Jesus and substituting someone else as savior we err, grievously.
But what if we do not know Jesus? What about people who are born in remote jungles, who live and die never knowing a Christian or even hearing Jesus’ name? What about babies who are born and die before they can even ever comprehend human speech? Do those infants and those aborigines spend eternity in Hell for not professing with their lips, Jesus as their savior? Is it Jesus’ name and His personal identity as God incarnate that we must know that saves us? Or is it Jesus’ teachings and way of life that we must obey to be saved?
This dilemma forces us to go back to the original question above, how exactly is Jesus the way? If we search deeper into Jesus’ teachings, we know that before Jesus came the Jews believed that the way to Heaven was through the law. And since they had the law and the Gentiles did not, obviously they were going to Heaven and the Gentiles were excluded. Jesus came to dispel those errors. He showed His disciples that the way to the Father was through faith, not works (the law.) And we showed this faith through obedience to His commands. Consider these quotes of Jesus in John chapter 14:
Verse 12 “’I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing…’â€Â
Verse 15 “’If you love me, you will do what I command.’â€Â
Verse 21 “’Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by the Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.’â€Â
Verse 23 “Jesus replied ‘If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching…’â€Â
These verses do not explicitly say that we have to call on Jesus’ name, nor do they say that His name is irrelevant, but what they do point out so clearly is that the Lord Himself stressed over and over again the necessity for our obedience to His commands. So did Ghandi obey His commands? None of us truly knew Ghandi, personally, and the accounts we have of him seem to suggest that much of what he did was in accordance with what Jesus taught while He was with us. Did Ghandi pray to multiple Gods? I don’t know. And if he did, did he know fully about Christ, and shun him in preference for those pagan Gods? I don’t know that either. But, given what Jesus himself said, if we assume that Ghandi’s life shows proof of his obedience to the saviors commands, and given what Paul says in Rom 2:12-16, if we cannot conclusively know that Ghandi knew full well about God and Jesus, then I for one am very lithe to judge Ghandi of going to Hell.
Jesus said “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.†I believe strongly that He meant that, humbly recognizing God as holy and ourselves as fallen, repentance from our sins, and loving one another were His way, and truth that lead to life everlasting. Anyone who has His teachings, whether they know His name or not, have Him.