Take heed no one deceives you.

[Desire Of All Nations]

The idea that someone is can be "born again" in their physical lifetimes is itself a deception. Paul teaches in Rom. 1 that Christ is currently the only human being who has truly been born again. Christ was very clear in Jhn 3 when He said a person who is born again is invisible like wind. If somebody can naturally see you with a human eye, you are clearly not born again in the way the Bible defines it.

The problem with Orthodox Christianity is that it confuses the new life someone is supposed to live as a Christian with being born again. A Christian is begotten by God in their physical lives, not born of God. There is a huge difference between the 2 things, and most people simply don't understand this. The human birth process was literally meant to be a type of what it biblically means to be born again. A Christian is first begotten by God with His Spirit(like a human male impregnates a female with his sperm), they grow to spiritual maturity in the way an embryo becomes a baby in the womb, and when they are given their immortal bodies, they are reborn as a Son of God.

There was no other "faith" around.

The Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Essenes were all mainstream Jewish faiths that existed by the time Christ was born. When somebody says "OT faith"/"Jewish faith", they need to be specific in regards to what they're talking about because all of those groups were basically denominations that claimed the OT writings were the basis of their beliefs. The Roman authorities treated Christianity as just another Jewish faith in the beginning because the early adherents kept the same festivals and laws as the Pharisees and Sadducees did for the most part. The only discernible difference between them all as far as Rome knew was that Jesus of Nazareth was considered to be the preeminent prophet in the Christian sect instead of Moses.

Can you prove that there were no Gentiles that followed after Jesus before Paul was commissioned to the Gentiles? Many crowded around Jesus to hear Him speak wherever He went.

Christ Himself said He was sent to only preach to Israelites:

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matt. 15:24]

While Christ did interact with Gentiles at various points throughout His ministry, it wasn't for the purpose of extending salvation to them or recruiting them. The first 2 chapters of Acts are pretty clear that the 120 original followers were all Jews. It wasn't until Acts 10 that Peter received the revelation from God that salvation was being extended to Gentiles.

Can you not see a difference in Covenants?
They were given the Law to guide them, but we have been given God's Spirit.
They could not be made perfect, but we can be.
It is written..."For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God." (Heb 7:19)'
''And these all, (OT examples of faith) having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." (Heb 11:39-40)

If men can't see the perfection that is now available to them in the NT, they are still living under the old covenant.

You are misquoting Paul, and it's based on not understanding the Law's purpose. Paul said the Law didn't make anyone perfect because the Law's role is not to forgive anyone. As Paul said in Romans, if keeping the Law was supposed to make somebody worthy of being forgiven, there wouldn't be any need for having faith in Christ's sacrifice. The Law was given to show what biblical morality looks like, and it isn't obsolete just because of the current covenant. Everything the Law says is moral or immoral is reinforced by the NT writers.

God's Spirit is given to truly converted Christians so they will willingly live by what is in the Law. As Paul said in Hebrews, the problem with the former covenant was that most of the OT Israelites consistently refused to live by the Law, not the Law itself. They couldn't do it in part because they didn't have God's Spirit, even though it doesn't excuse why they refused to even consistently live by the letter of the Law. Any argument that portrays the Law as being imperfect is by default portraying the God that gave it as imperfect because the Law is fundamentally based on God's own character.

 

[Hopeful]

The idea that someone is can be "born again" in their physical lifetimes is itself a deception. Paul teaches in Rom. 1 that Christ is currently the only human being who has truly been born again. Christ was very clear in Jhn 3 when He said a person who is born again is invisible like wind. If somebody can naturally see you with a human eye, you are clearly not born again in the way the Bible defines it.

How do you fit that belief into Rom 6:4?..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
After the old me was crucified with Christ and buried with Christ, I was raised from the dead with Christ.
I was reborn. A new creature.
I see no deception in that.

The problem with Orthodox Christianity is that it confuses the new life someone is supposed to live as a Christian with being born again. A Christian is begotten by God in their physical lives, not born of God. There is a huge difference between the 2 things, and most people simply don't understand this. The human birth process was literally meant to be a type of what it biblically means to be born again. A Christian is first begotten by God with His Spirit(like a human male impregnates a female with his sperm), they grow to spiritual maturity in the way an embryo becomes a baby in the womb, and when they are given their immortal bodies, they are reborn as a Son of God.

The Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Essenes were all mainstream Jewish faiths that existed by the time Christ was born. When somebody says "OT faith"/"Jewish faith", they need to be specific in regards to what they're talking about because all of those groups were basically denominations that claimed the OT writings were the basis of their beliefs. The Roman authorities treated Christianity as just another Jewish faith in the beginning because the early adherents kept the same festivals and laws as the Pharisees and Sadducees did for the most part. The only discernible difference between them all as far as Rome knew was that Jesus of Nazareth was considered to be the preeminent prophet in the Christian sect instead of Moses.

Christ Himself said He was sent to only preach to Israelites:

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matt. 15:24]

While Christ did interact with Gentiles at various points throughout His ministry, it wasn't for the purpose of extending salvation to them or recruiting them. The first 2 chapters of Acts are pretty clear that the 120 original followers were all Jews. It wasn't until Acts 10 that Peter received the revelation from God that salvation was being extended to Gentiles.

You are misquoting Paul, and it's based on not understanding the Law's purpose. Paul said the Law didn't make anyone perfect because the Law's role is not to forgive anyone. As Paul said in Romans, if keeping the Law was supposed to make somebody worthy of being forgiven, there wouldn't be any need for having faith in Christ's sacrifice. The Law was given to show what biblical morality looks like, and it isn't obsolete just because of the current covenant. Everything the Law says is moral or immoral is reinforced by the NT writers.

The Mosaic Law could not make a man perfect, but the next covenant of God could.
And did.

God's Spirit is given to truly converted Christians so they will willingly live by what is in the Law. As Paul said in Hebrews, the problem with the former covenant was that most of the OT Israelites consistently refused to live by the Law, not the Law itself. They couldn't do it in part because they didn't have God's Spirit, even though it doesn't excuse why they refused to even consistently live by the letter of the Law. Any argument that portrays the Law as being imperfect is by default portraying the God that gave it as imperfect because the Law is fundamentally based on God's own character.

The OT Law was imperfect just for that reason.
It didn't include the giving of the Holy Ghost after a true repentance from sin. (Acts 2:38)

 

[for_his_glory]

The idea that someone is can be "born again" in their physical lifetimes is itself a deception. Paul teaches in Rom. 1 that Christ is currently the only human being who has truly been born again. Christ was very clear in Jhn 3 when He said a person who is born again is invisible like wind. If somebody can naturally see you with a human eye, you are clearly not born again in the way the Bible defines it.

The problem with Orthodox Christianity is that it confuses the new life someone is supposed to live as a Christian with being born again. A Christian is begotten by God in their physical lives, not born of God. There is a huge difference between the 2 things, and most people simply don't understand this. The human birth process was literally meant to be a type of what it biblically means to be born again. A Christian is first begotten by God with His Spirit(like a human male impregnates a female with his sperm), they grow to spiritual maturity in the way an embryo becomes a baby in the womb, and when they are given their immortal bodies, they are reborn as a Son of God.

Let’s start with the conversation of Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3:1-7 to get a better understanding of what it is to be born again and how to shed this old sin nature through repentance and then we will move on to learn how grace and mercy works in our lives.

Jesus was teaching Nicodemus that it was a Spiritual rebirth or renewal of our spirit that through Gods spoken word we can reconcile our past sins through repentance to be made sinless again before God. We are all born with a sin nature because of sin being introduced into the world through Satan’s deceit when he told Eve it was alright to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil even though God forbid them to eat of it. Our flesh will always sin because the flesh is never in obedience to God. John 9:31; Romans 8:7

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit). We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things. John 14:26

 

[jaybo]

Let’s start with the conversation of Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3:1-7 to get a better understanding of what it is to be born again and how to shed this old sin nature through repentance and then we will move on to learn how grace and mercy works in our lives.

Jesus was teaching Nicodemus that it was a Spiritual rebirth or renewal of our spirit that through Gods spoken word we can reconcile our past sins through repentance to be made sinless again before God. We are all born with a sin nature because of sin being introduced into the world through Satan’s deceit when he told Eve it was alright to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil even though God forbid them to eat of it. Our flesh will always sin because the flesh is never in obedience to God. John 9:31; Romans 8:7

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit). We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things. John 14:26

Great post! Desire of all Nations is very wrong in his doctrine.

 

[for_his_glory]

Great post! Desire of all Nations is very wrong in his doctrine.

It's not that he is wrong, but taught wrong. That is why we need sources to be posted.