Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

If a bank is built on the corner of Main and Ash, is that bank just for those who use it ?
Or is it for anyone who wants to bank there ?
You've built a doctrine based on semantics.

The ones who Christ tasted death for, it brought them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

That simply means, everyone Christ died for, it saved them from their sins and puts them in heaven.

If you dont believe it, its unbelief

 

[Kermos]

Hopeful 2, here is the Apostle John's testimony:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

Right, I was once that "any man".

Previously, you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD is that "any man":

The Moslem is the "any man" of 1 John 2:1.
He can turn to God for the remission of past sins.

Now, let's see how your testimony right there above combines with your testimony just there below.

He didn't have to die as an unbeliever.
The Advocate could have made him righteous.

The Advocate was there to advocate.
The Moslem didn't want advocacy.

Since you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man is that "any man" of 1 John 2:1-2, then combining that with your testimony of "The Moslem didn't want advocacy" right there above effectually results in your testimony being:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, unless anyone does not want Christ's advocacy, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
​

which is no longer the Apostle John's testimony recorded in 1 John 2:1-2. You just compare and contrast your testimony here with the Apostle John's testimony recorded in the opening of this post to see the difference.

Now, let's further see how your testimony above combines with your testimony below.

That doesn't make Jesus, or His advocacy, a failure.

That man, and all men, have a life-time to change.
If they want to do evil instead of good they will not seek an advocate of any sort.
But still, the Advocate was there.

Jesus will not advocate for those intent on continued sin.
That doesn't make Jesus or His advocacy a failure.
It is just unwanted.

The advocacy of Jesus Christ was there for the taking.
It wasn't taken.

He missed his chance.

He sure is dead.
God gave him an entire life-span to turn from darkness and unto Him, but he didn't turn.

I don't believe on forced conversions, like the Moslems and Calvinists do.
Conversion must be from the heart.
Conversion is available to all men.

Yes, when it is asked for.

Bearing in mind that you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man is the "any man" in 1 John 2:1-2, then combined with your testimony of "He missed his chance" about the unbelieving dead Muslim man as recorded in your quote above, then your testimony effectually results in:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an [/u]incapable[/u] Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous whose advocacy failed for the anyone identified as that unbelieving dead Muslim man, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of that unbelieving dead Muslim man who is part of the whole world.​

​

​

So your testimony leads you to the point that Jesus fails to propitiate for the sins of people such as that unbelieving dead Muslim man, so Christ's advocacy results in death not life according to your testimony.

Do tell.

The Apostle John testified in 1 John 2:1-2 every single one of the following points as being Truth (John 14:6):

• John declares that Christ propitiates for "the whole world" (1 John 2:2)
• John includes every single "anyone" for whom Christ advocates in the group that John called "the whole world",
• John includes that Christ succeeds in every single one of Christ's advocacies without exception (1 John 2:1-2),
• John excluded any and all volition of man from 1 John 2:1-2,
• therefore, John includes exclusively current Christians and future Christians in John's usage of "anyone" and "the whole world".

This is Christian belief.

Your testimony is out of accord with the Apostle John's testimony; therefore, your testimony is deception.

This current post has a corollary with Post 4 of 5 because this post and that post both Scripturally proclaim that for both John 3:16 and 1 John 2:1-2 the word "world" does not mean everyone everywhere in all time.

You make man out to be the center of Redemption, that is, man is exclusively the controller of Redemption.

In Truth (John 14:6), Christ is the center of Redemption unto Life for man (John 14:6), that is, Christ alone is the Controller of Redemption! Praise be to the Lord God Almighty, Jesus Christ!

Do not be deceived, your testimony results in Christ failing in Christ's work of advocacy for that unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD - that Christ's propitiation for the sins of "the whole world" specifically the unbelieving dead Muslim man in this case - Christ an utter and complete failure according to your free-willian philosophy.

Hopeful 2, your testimony is clear - your hope is based on your work.

The Apostle John's testimony is clear - John's hope is based on Christ's work.

Continued to post 2,143

 

[Kermos]

Continued from post 2,142

Repent: turn from or change.
As the repentance of Christians is from sin, further descriptions are unwarranted.

The Christ turns us Christians to God, that is, God our Father causes us children of God to repent (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Romans 2:4, Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25, Matthew 11:25).

Since you do not understand repentance as per your testimony, then this description is fully warranted.

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards")
(def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Lord Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Sorrowful about what ?
Their sins.
"Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation, not to be repented of." (2 Cor 5:17)

You cited the wrong verse for the quotation. 2 Corinthians 5:17 reads "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come". That is no coincidence because God has me close this section with this very verse!

Look, your word "sin" is absent from both 2 Corinthians 5:17 and 2 Corinthians 7:8-10.

Behold, the Apostle Paul wrote "God produces a repentance to salvation" in 2 Corinthians 7:10 and that is not your conveyance of "repentance from sin", so God causes us Christians to be changed in our thoughts and deeds and longings to that of the Way (John 14:6) in Truth (John 14:6), so God unilaterally gives us repentance unto Life (John 14:6), so our marvelous majestic King Jesus makes the things of this world pass away, even our separation from sin as far as the east is from the west (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Who does the repenting-turning-changing ?
God ?

To answer your questions, God produces a repentance to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Sorrow for sin produces a repentance from sin.

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE

BIBLE CiTATION: For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

Paul the Apostle wrote "for you were made sorrowful according to God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

See "God produces a repentance"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

BIBLE CITATION: "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25).

Jesus reveals that God imparts the revelation of the Truth (John 14:6) into believer's thoughts causing believers to "think different after" being saved from the wrath of God.

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability" to cause repentance.

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

As I've written earlier, only the Moslems and Calvinists believe in forced conversions.

The Christ of us Christians says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for free-willians to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

We Christians are blessed of God to be chosen by Lord Jesus without exception because the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation)!

 

[Hopeful 2]

The ones who Christ tasted death for, it brought them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

Better stated would be..."For all He will bring to glory, He has tasted death.
He tasted death for all men.
Only some will be found worthy of eternal life though.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
That simply means, everyone Christ died for, it saved them from their sins and puts them in heaven.

It simply means that all brought to glory will have had Jesus taste death for.

If you dont believe it, its unbelief

I can't believe your misunderstanding of the verses.
Jesus made eternal life available to all men, even tasting death for them.
But not all men want eternal life.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful 2, here is the Apostle John's testimony:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

(1 John 2:1-2)​

Previously, you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD is that "any man":
Now, let's see how your testimony right there above combines with your testimony just there below.

What do you mean by "successfully testified" ?

Since you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man is that "any man" of 1 John 2:1-2, then combining that with your testimony of "The Moslem didn't want advocacy" right there above effectually results in your testimony being:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, unless anyone does not want Christ's advocacy, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

You have the re-interpretation correct.
We must desire advocacy to get advocacy.

which is no longer the Apostle John's testimony recorded in 1 John 2:1-2. You just compare and contrast your testimony here with the Apostle John's testimony recorded in the opening of this post to see the difference.

If Jesus advocates for all men, all men would be Christians.
Can you see that ?

Now, let's further see how your testimony above combines with your testimony below.
Bearing in mind that you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man is the "any man" in 1 John 2:1-2, then combined with your testimony of "He missed his chance" about the unbelieving dead Muslim man as recorded in your quote above, then your testimony effectually results in:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an [/u]incapable[/u] Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous whose advocacy failed for the anyone identified as that unbelieving dead Muslim man, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of that unbelieving dead Muslim man who is part of the whole world.​

If you had not added "incapable", I would again agree with your re-interpretation.

So your testimony leads you to the point that Jesus fails to propitiate for the sins of people such as that unbelieving dead Muslim man, so Christ's advocacy results in death not life according to your testimony.​

Jesus does not advocate for those unwilling to be advocated for.
Jesus suffered and died for them so they could be free of sin, but they waned to commit sin more than they wanted to serve God.

The Apostle John testified in 1 John 2:1-2 every single one of the following points as being Truth (John 14:6):

• John declares that Christ propitiates for "the whole world" (1 John 2:2)
• John includes every single "anyone" for whom Christ advocates in the group that John called "the whole world",
• John includes that Christ succeeds in every single one of Christ's advocacies without exception (1 John 2:1-2),
• John excluded any and all volition of man from 1 John 2:1-2,
• therefore, John includes exclusively current Christians and future Christians in John's usage of "anyone" and "the whole world".

This is Christian belief.

It is YOUR belief that Hitler and Mao will find their names in the book of life on the last day.

Your testimony is out of accord with the Apostle John's testimony; therefore, your testimony is deception.

The fruit of OSAS is deception.
Hitler did not ask for, or receive, advocacy.

This current post has a corollary with Post 4 of 5 because this post and that post both Scripturally proclaim that for both John 3:16 and 1 John 2:1-2 the word "world" does not mean everyone everywhere in all time.

Jesus died for all men living during and after His resurrection.
He is the Advocate for all who will cease from sin.
Advocacy has conditions.

You make man out to be the center of Redemption, that is, man is exclusively the controller of Redemption.

The "man" is Jesus who is at the center of redemption.
But sadly, only some want redemption.

In Truth (John 14:6), Christ is the center of Redemption unto Life for man (John 14:6), that is, Christ alone is the Controller of Redemption! Praise be to the Lord God Almighty, Jesus Christ!
Do not be deceived, your testimony results in Christ failing in Christ's work of advocacy for that unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD - that Christ's propitiation for the sins of "the whole world" specifically the unbelieving dead Muslim man in this case - Christ an utter and complete failure according to your free-willian philosophy

The dead unbelievers will not be saved.

Hopeful 2, your testimony is clear - your hope is based on your work.
The Apostle John's testimony is clear - John's hope is based on Christ's work.

Every gift involves two beings.
The giver and the receiver.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The Christ turns us Christians to God, that is, God our Father causes us children of God to repent (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Romans 2:4, Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25, Matthew 11:25).

Can one turn to God without turning from sin ?
In the Strong's Concordance repentance, (3341 in the Greek), is indeed interpreted as "change".
But it is also interpreted in (3b) as "In the NT the subject chiefly has reference to "repentance" from sin, and this change of mind involves both a turning from sin and a turning to God."
I can understand that.

Since you do not understand repentance as per your testimony, then this description is fully warranted
Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".
Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards")​

(def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Lord Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

You cited the wrong verse for the quotation. 2 Corinthians 5:17 reads "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come". That is no coincidence because God has me close this section with this very verse!

Oops.
I meant 2 Cor 7:10..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
The sorrow is for past sins.

Look, your word "sin" is absent from both 2 Corinthians 5:17 and 2 Corinthians 7:8-10.
Behold, the Apostle Paul wrote "God produces a repentance to salvation" in 2 Corinthians 7:10 and that is not your conveyance of "repentance from sin", so God causes us Christians to be changed in our thoughts and deeds and longings to that of the Way (John 14:6) in Truth (John 14:6), so God unilaterally gives us repentance unto Life (John 14:6), so our marvelous majestic King Jesus makes the things of this world pass away, even our separation from sin as far as the east is from the west (2 Corinthians 5:17).

To answer your questions, God produces a repentance to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Nope.
"Godly sorrow" worketh the turn from sin.
That means "real-deep" sorrow.

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE

BIBLE CiTATION: For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

Paul the Apostle wrote "for you were made sorrowful according to God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

See "God produces a repentance"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

BIBLE CITATION: "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25).

Jesus reveals that God imparts the revelation of the Truth (John 14:6) into believer's thoughts causing believers to "think different after" being saved from the wrath of God.

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability" to cause repentance.

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!



The Christ of us Christians says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16),

Jesus was talking to His apostles.

• so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for free-willians to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

We Christians are blessed of God to be chosen by Lord Jesus without exception because the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation)!

Can the unrepentant liars. thieves, adulterers, or murderers say "God picked me to be His" ?
I am grateful to the God who made His advocacy, repentance from sin, and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, available to us all.
He didn't force me to quit committing sin or love my neighbors.
He offered the ability to do it perfectly, and I took the opportunity to act like all of the others who have been reborn of God's seed.

Only Moslems and Calvinists believe religion can be forced on people.

 

[brightfame52]

Better stated would be..."For all He will bring to glory, He has tasted death.
He tasted death for all men.
Only some will be found worthy of eternal life though.

It simply means that all brought to glory will have had Jesus taste death for.

I can't believe your misunderstanding of the verses.
Jesus made eternal life available to all men, even tasting death for them.
But not all men want eternal life.

Again, The ones Christ tasted death for, by His death, it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

This simply means, Christ by His death saved unto eternal glory all for whom He died. If you dont believe it, that's unbelief

 

[Hopeful 2]

Again, The ones Christ tasted death for, by His death, it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

This simply means, Christ by His death saved unto eternal glory all for whom He died. If you dont believe it, that's unbelief

Where do Hitler and Mao fit in your theology ?
Jesus died for them too.

 

[brightfame52]

Where do Hitler and Mao fit in your theology ?
Jesus died for them too.

Again, The ones Christ tasted death for, by His death, it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

This simply means, Christ by His death saved unto eternal glory all for whom He died. If you dont believe it, that's unbelief

 

[Hopeful 2]

Again, The ones Christ tasted death for, by His death, it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

This simply means, Christ by His death saved unto eternal glory all for whom He died. If you dont believe it, that's unbelief

Have you seen the title of the thread ?
"Tasted Death for every man"
Then you go off and say "No, He only tasted death for A-K".

Jesus' suffering and death are available for every man born since His time on earth.
Some just don't want it, or the new life they are to lead.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus was not referring exclusively to the Apostles. Did you read in the post to which you replied about Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias (Acts 1:21-23)?

Let's just look at the Apostle Peter's words, and we shall identify the "people that don't understand scripture":

​

“Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us— beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.​

(Acts 1:21-23)​

​

So, Apostolic testimony puts 2 more people present as part of Lord Jesus' audience when the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Now, as shown in Truth (John 14:6) in the post to which you replied, the audience is all believers in all time for Lord Jesus in reference to John 15:16 and John 15:19.

Do you consider yourself a friend of Jesus because the Lord brings friendship with Himself together with His exclusive choosing of people in the same passage with "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16)?

Hi Kermos,
I didn't mean "people that don't understand scripture" to be understood in a mean way.
It's just that we're reading the same bible and come up with two totally different conclusions.
Surely, one of us is not correct and is misunderstanding scripture.

I say "us" because, although theologians with better brains for this than we have indeed have studied scripture and have come up with differing theology, we still should read it on our own and come to our own conclusions without having someone or some denomination feed our brain with their beliefs.

So this is how I understand things to be:
After Jesus certain beliefs about Him were disseminated throughout the then known world, and then the world eventually.

In about 1,524 or thereabouts, the reformation happened.
I'm happy it happened because the CC was really out of hand by then, unfortunately because it started out so well.
OTOH, it caused a division amongst we Christians and for this I'm sorry.

It's at the time that Luther and Calvin and others came up with theology that was totally different than what was taught at the beginning. For me the beginning means up until the Nicene Council, 325AD.

And having said all this, I will indeed reply to your post in a few minutes...

 

[brightfame52]

Have you seen the title of the thread ?
"Tasted Death for every man"
Then you go off and say "No, He only tasted death for A-K".

Jesus' suffering and death are available for every man born since His time on earth.
Some just don't want it, or the new life they are to lead.

I started the thread.

 

[rogerg]

I started the thread.

lol - yeah, I wondered how he missed that.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus was not referring exclusively to the Apostles. Did you read in the post to which you replied about Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias (Acts 1:21-23)?

Let's just look at the Apostle Peter's words, and we shall identify the "people that don't understand scripture":

​

“Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us— beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.​

I was replying to John 15:17 when Jesus tells the Apostles that He chose them.
I don't really understand what Acts 1:21-23 has to do with this.

(Acts 1:21-23)​

​

So, Apostolic testimony puts 2 more people present as part of Lord Jesus' audience when the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Now, as shown in Truth (John 14:6) in the post to which you replied, the audience is all believers in all time for Lord Jesus in reference to John 15:16 and John 15:19.

Although I agree that many of Jesus' words in John 14, 15, 16 and 17 could be meant for everyone who would come to believe in Him, we do have to admit that in these chapters, Jesus is speaking to His disciples, who would be known as Apostles after His death, and are meant for them.

If you read John 17:20 Jesus says He does not ask FOR THESE ALONE (the disciples) but for THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD.

So the sancification would be for everyone...
but for some of the verses, they are meant for the disciples.

John 17:

This echoes Jesus' earlier statements: that part of His mission was to pass along the message of God the Father (John 8:28; 12:49). As He prays for the disciples, in particular, He refers to their faith.

Jesus' closest followers were far from perfect. He spent quite a bit of time correcting—even rebuking—when they struggled to understand His lessons (Matthew 8:26). Sometimes, those mistakes were a matter of misinterpreting the Old Testament, or the law of Moses (Luke 24:25–26). In other instances, pride and overconfidence tripped them up (Mark 8:33). Despite those errors, the men Jesus selected to become "the Twelve" (Matthew 10:1–4) held sincere, legitimate faith in Him and His message (John 6:68–69). That has always been the one and only requirement to be a "true believer." Perfection is not required—only humble, submissive faith.

Of course, one of the men Jesus placed in His inner circle chose betrayal and damnation, instead. Judas' treachery wasn't a surprise to Christ (John 6:64), and it's something still on His mind even as He prays for those who remained loyal (John 17:12).
source: https://www.bibleref.com/John/17/Jo...ge, known as,courage in His closest disciples.
***********************************************************************
John 14

Enduring Word Bible Commentary John Chapter 14

David Guzik commentary on John 14, where Jesus gives the disciples the promise of the Holy Spirit after He’d be departed.

enduringword.com

Do you consider yourself a friend of Jesus because the Lord brings friendship with Himself together with His exclusive choosing of people in the same passage with "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16)?

Friendship is a two-way street.
I choose a friend, and that friend must in turn choose me.

So it is with God.
He makes the first move giving us enough grace to respond to His call.
We must respond with a yes or a no.

God does not force His will on anyone.
A true friend is a friend freely, not because I have the ability to impose it on him.

What an insult to an almighty and sovereign God that anyone would believe that HE must choose us and force His will upon us to love Him and obey Him !

 

[GodsGrace]

I started the thread.

You did not title it correctly, but only in a way to attract attention.

The title of a thread should reflect what the OP believes.

YOU certainly do not believe that Jesus tasted death for all men.

 

[Kermos]

You are not following the grammar you listed.

“Grace” is the direct object modifying the subject: “you are saved.”
“Gift” is a {{{neuter}}} noun while “faith” is a {{{feminine}}} noun, so "gift" cannot refer back to "faith."
“Gift” cannot refer back to “faith” because, for one, “faith” is not the subject of the sentence. “Gift” must refer back to a subject. There is only one subject in the entire sentence, which is: “By grace you are saved.”
“Gift” can only refer back to a subject with the {{{same gender}}}, which is the verbal concept, “By grace you are saved.” This is the verbal concept, because that complete thought was brought forward from verse 5 for further discussion.
“Gift” is neuter singular, and the "verbal concept" is neuter singular by default.


“Faith,” being “genitive,” {{{takes possession of}}} the ‘grace of salvation;’ therefore, faith is not part of the saving grace that it is taking possession of. “By faith” I gain access to God’s saving grace.



Romans 5:1-2 (Young’s Literal Translation) Having been declared righteous, then, by faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have the access by the faith into this grace in which we have stood, and we boast on the hope of the glory of God.





{{{We}}} are His work. Paul is writing to "believers," including himself.



“Believers” are the work of God. The Passage does not state that “faith” is the work of God, but that WE, the believers, are the work of God. We are God’s workmanship, because we are believing in Lord Jesus.

You wrote "'Grace' is the direct object" recorded here in this post, but in the same post you wrote "There is only one subject in the entire sentence, which is: 'By grace you are saved.'" resulting in you including "grace" in the sentence subject in one place then elsewhere you confusedly included "grace" in the direct object phrase, but, wait, you had written differently with "grace is the indirect object" recorded here in this other post, so your own self-defined grammatical confusion is recorded in this thread; therefore, you do not know what "grace" is!

You wrote "'Gift' is a {{{neuter}}} noun while 'faith' is a {{{feminine}}} noun, so 'gift' cannot refer back to 'faith.'"" and then in your own self-contradictory grammar you wrote "'Gift' can only refer back to a subject with the {{{same gender}}}, which is the verbal concept, 'By grace you are saved.'" (both quotations recorded here in this post), but "grace" is feminine gender just like "faith" is feminine, so your illegal grammar has the neuter "gift" referring back to the feminine "grace" while at the same time disallowing the neuter "gift" referring back to the feminine "faith".

The True Grammar In Ephesians 2:8​

The Apostle Paul wrote:

"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).
​

In Ephesians chapter 2, Paul introduces the development for the concept of "by grace you have been saved" in Ephesians 2:5, then Paul proceeded through the intervening verses to the fully developed big reveal of "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8.

Paul expanded on what he started to talk about in Ephesians 2:5; moreover, in Ephesians 2:8, Paul makes it Spiritually and grammatically clear that faith is inextricably included in the "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8 is multi-faceted, so let's look at these seven words, at constructs such as case/gender/number which establish communication, so here they are:

• grace - noun - dative/feminine/singular
• you is exclusively the subject in (Ephesians 2:8), and "you" is derived from the second person and plural count of the inflection of the verb "are".
• are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count
• saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural
• faith - noun - genitive/feminine/singular
• and - conjunction
• that - demonstrative pronoun - nominative/neuter/singular
• yourselves - personal pronoun - genitive in the second person with plural count.
• God - noun - genitive/masculine/singular
• gift - noun - nominative/neuter/singular

Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".

As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words.

There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.

Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".

As a minimum basis, the word order principle plays a role in the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8.

There is more to the grammatical structure, such as "God" and "faith" are the only genitive and singular two words in Ephesians 2:8, and both of these words have an antecedent that is neuter, and a neuter can be an antecedent to both masculine words and feminine words, so this grammatical structure binds the words "God" and "faith" together in Ephesians 2:8, and yet there is more to the grammatical structure such that the following is entirely Truth (John 14:6).

We have 3 clauses in Ephesians 2:8.

1. by grace you are saved through faith
   [*[and that not of yourselves
2. it is the gift of God

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "not of yourselves".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is composed of the constituent parts of "grace" and "saved" and "faith".

When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of

• ”grace” is not a work of man while being the gift of God
• ”saved” is not a work of man while being the gift of God
• ”faith” is not a work of man while being the gift of God

in his writing of

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
​

One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes it clear that the work of faith is not a work of man, yet the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 clearly state that faith is the work of God.

Your personally created non-Greek grammar is illegal Greek grammar and thoroughly confused grammar regarding Ephesians 2:8-10.

Christ's words recorded in John 6:29 are not dependent upon Ephesians 2:8-10.

Paul's writing in Ephesians 2:8-10 is in accord with Christ's words "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so Paul's writing is dependent upon the Word of God.

Your explanation omits critical parts of the grammatical construction of the Apostle Paul's linguistics, so your explanation uses illegal grammar; in other words, your exclusion of "faith" from "gift" uses illegal grammar, and your free-willian adulteration is clearly evident by comparing and contrasting your personal grammar to proper Greek grammar illustrated in this section.

In your closing paragraph of

“Believers” are the work of God. The Passage does not state that “faith” is the work of God, but that WE, the believers, are the work of God. We are God’s workmanship, because we are believing in Lord Jesus.
​

you wickedly say that faith/belief is not a part of believers. See the first word of your first sentence. Look here. “Believers” are the work of God, and since "Belief" is an integral part of "Believers", then "WE, the believers along with our belief, are the work of God" just as Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:10.

PAUL THE APOSTLE repeats his declaration of Ephesians 2:8 when in Ephesians 2:10 Paul wrote "we are His work", so we Christians are the work of God (see John 6:29) which includes our faith/belief - we are God's exclusively by God's grace for God's glory - PRAISE BE TO GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST!

Faith/Belief is the work of God (John 6:29) because the Word of God wonderfully declares the glory of God with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)!

Part 1 of 5
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Post 3 of 5
Post 4 of 5
Post 5 of 5 current

 

[GodsGrace]

You wrote "'Grace' is the direct object" recorded here in this post, but in the same post you wrote "There is only one subject in the entire sentence, which is: 'By grace you are saved.'" resulting in you including "grace" in the sentence subject in one place then elsewhere you confusedly included "grace" in the direct object phrase, but, wait, you had written differently with "grace is the indirect object" recorded here in this other post, so your own self-defined grammatical confusion is recorded in this thread; therefore, you do not know what "grace" is!

You wrote "'Gift' is a {{{neuter}}} noun while 'faith' is a {{{feminine}}} noun, so 'gift' cannot refer back to 'faith.'"" and then in your own self-contradictory grammar you wrote "'Gift' can only refer back to a subject with the {{{same gender}}}, which is the verbal concept, 'By grace you are saved.'" (both quotations recorded here in this post), but "grace" is feminine gender just like "faith" is feminine, so your illegal grammar has the neuter "gift" referring back to the feminine "grace" while at the same time disallowing the neuter "gift" referring back to the feminine "faith".

The True Grammar In Ephesians 2:8​

The Apostle Paul wrote:

​

"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).​

​

In Ephesians chapter 2, Paul introduces the development for the concept of "by grace you have been saved" in Ephesians 2:5, then Paul proceeded through the intervening verses to the fully developed big reveal of "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8.

Paul expanded on what he started to talk about in Ephesians 2:5; moreover, in Ephesians 2:8, Paul makes it Spiritually and grammatically clear that faith is inextricably included in the "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".

The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8 is multi-faceted, so let's look at these seven words, at constructs such as case/gender/number which establish communication, so here they are:

• grace - noun - dative/feminine/singular
• you is exclusively the subject in (Ephesians 2:8), and "you" is derived from the second person and plural count of the inflection of the verb "are".
• are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count
• saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural
• faith - noun - genitive/feminine/singular
• and - conjunction
• that - demonstrative pronoun - nominative/neuter/singular
• yourselves - personal pronoun - genitive in the second person with plural count.
• God - noun - genitive/masculine/singular
• gift - noun - nominative/neuter/singular

Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".

As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words.

There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.

Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".

As a minimum basis, the word order principle plays a role in the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8.

There is more to the grammatical structure, such as "God" and "faith" are the only genitive and singular two words in Ephesians 2:8, and both of these words have an antecedent that is neuter, and a neuter can be an antecedent to both masculine words and feminine words, so this grammatical structure binds the words "God" and "faith" together in Ephesians 2:8, and yet there is more to the grammatical structure such that the following is entirely Truth (John 14:6).

We have 3 clauses in Ephesians 2:8.

1. by grace you are saved through faith
   [*[and that not of yourselves
2. it is the gift of God

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "not of yourselves".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is composed of the constituent parts of "grace" and "saved" and "faith".

When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of

• ”grace” is not a work of man while being the gift of God
• ”saved” is not a work of man while being the gift of God
• ”faith” is not a work of man while being the gift of God

in his writing of

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes it clear that the work of faith is not a work of man, yet the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 clearly state that faith is the work of God.

Your personally created non-Greek grammar is illegal Greek grammar and thoroughly confused grammar regarding Ephesians 2:8-10.

Christ's words recorded in John 6:29 are not dependent upon Ephesians 2:8-10.

Paul's writing in Ephesians 2:8-10 is in accord with Christ's words "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so Paul's writing is dependent upon the Word of God.

Your explanation omits critical parts of the grammatical construction of the Apostle Paul's linguistics, so your explanation uses illegal grammar; in other words, your exclusion of "faith" from "gift" uses illegal grammar, and your free-willian adulteration is clearly evident by comparing and contrasting your personal grammar to proper Greek grammar illustrated in this section.

In your closing paragraph of

​

“Believers” are the work of God. The Passage does not state that “faith” is the work of God, but that WE, the believers, are the work of God. We are God’s workmanship, because we are believing in Lord Jesus.​

​

you wickedly say that faith/belief is not a part of believers. See the first word of your first sentence. Look here. “Believers” are the work of God, and since "Belief" is an integral part of "Believers", then "WE, the believers along with our belief, are the work of God" just as Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:10.

PAUL THE APOSTLE repeats his declaration of Ephesians 2:8 when in Ephesians 2:10 Paul wrote "we are His work", so we Christians are the work of God (see John 6:29) which includes our faith/belief - we are God's exclusively by God's grace for God's glory - PRAISE BE TO GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST!

Faith/Belief is the work of God (John 6:29) because the Word of God wonderfully declares the glory of God with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)!

Part 1 of 5
Post 2 of 5
Post 3 of 5
Post 4 of 5
Post 5 of 5 current

So many words for such a simple problem.

Ephesians 2:8
Due to genders in koine Greek, or any greek, or romance languages,
The gift is:
Grace
Faith
And thus,,,salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

“2 Corinthians 5:14” says that the love of Christ “compels us (The Apostles). In context, Paul was speaking about himself and the other Apostles.

However, every true believer in Christ is compelled by the Spirit to live a holy life onto righteousness and love as a follower of Lord Jesus.

But “compelling” is not “controlling,” because many Christians refuse to live by the Spirit, and so they:

Grieve (Ephesians 4:17-32; Isaiah 63:10);
Quench (1 Thessalonians 5:19);
Insult (Hebrews 10:24-31);
Reject (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8),
Lie to (Acts 5:3), and
Test (Acts 5:9), the Spirit of God indwelling the believer.

Therefore, the Spirit guides and compels the believer to do the right thing, to live a sanctified life of righteousness and love, but for that to happen the believer is responsible continue in his faith and so:

Drink (John 7:37-38),
Live (Galatians 5:24-25),
Walk (Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 5:25), and
Sow (Galatians 6:7-9)” to the Spirit without giving up.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) [Writing to the Christians in Galatia] 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Romans 8:12-14 (ENIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, {{{we}}} have {{{an obligation}}} – but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit {{{you}}} put to death the misdeeds of the body, {{{you}}} will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

The Spirit leads, but only as the believers continue in the faith, diligent to "drink," "live," "walk," and "sow" to the Spirit dwelling in the believers. The Spirit dwelling in believers will give them eternal life, but only as they continue to sow to the Spirit without giving up. That is the Promise and Guarantee of the Spirit. See the Passages again, quoted above.



My response stands. Faith, by definition, is never a work. That is reality. Faith is the opposite of works.

But you go ahead and believe that faith is a work. The entire New Testament disagrees with you, but you go and believe that anyway. My messages are for those who read these posts who seek the truth.



You are not following the grammar you listed.

• “Grace” is the direct object modifying the subject: “you are saved.”
• “Gift” is a {{{neuter}}} noun while “faith” is a {{{feminine}}} noun, so "gift" cannot refer back to "faith."

1. “Gift” cannot refer back to “faith” because, for one, “faith” is not the subject of the sentence. “Gift” must refer back to a subject. There is only one subject in the entire sentence, which is: “By grace you are saved.”
2. “Gift” can only refer back to a subject with the {{{same gender}}}, which is the verbal concept, “By grace you are saved.” This is the verbal concept, because that complete thought was brought forward from verse 5 for further discussion.
3. “Gift” is neuter singular, and the "verbal concept" is neuter singular by default.

“Faith,” being “genitive,” {{{takes possession of}}} the ‘grace of salvation;’ therefore, faith is not part of the saving grace that it is taking possession of. “By faith” I gain access to God’s saving grace.

Romans 5:1-2 (Young’s Literal Translation) Having been declared righteous, then, by faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have the access by the faith into this grace in which we have stood, and we boast on the hope of the glory of God.

John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.



{{{We}}} are His work. Paul is writing to "believers," including himself.

“Believers” are the work of God. The Passage does not state that “faith” is the work of God, but that WE, the believers, are the work of God. We are God’s workmanship, because we are believing in Lord Jesus.

The gift is
Grace
Faith
Salvation

It refers to all.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I started the thread.

So why deny, over and over again, that Jesus died for everybody ?

 

[brightfame52]

So why deny, over and over again, that Jesus died for everybody ?

You are being exposed in your denying the efficasiousness of the saving death of Christ, see the people Christ tasted death for, it brings them to Glory, final salvation Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.