Tattoos are sinful

[Malachi45]

Well so what is the point?

All I see is that Christianity has gone back paganism, which is understandable since the new age movement infiltrated the Body of Christ two decades ago. Christianity seems to be practicing more of other relgions practices these days, than the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Yep, the word "harmless" slips so easily off the tongue of seduced and deceived Christians. Yep, all those other practices that have infiltrated the Body of Christ are really HARMLESS, such things as mysticism, prayer soaking, contemplative prayer, magic, martial arts, yoga, graven images, and many more.

Yep, just change their name, and place "Christian" onto it, and the enemy can't touch you. Like changing the name of a "lemon tree" to "orange tree". It may be called an "orange", but the fruit is still a "lemon"!

It's not about what we may refer to "sin", but the SELF part about it, and basic rebellion and lawlessness.

I see so many Christians who display their obnoxious tattoos in SELF-idolatry, all over there bodies, because they have reached the peak of "martial arts", and because they changed the name "martial arts", which is another religon's demonic practices that whorships another deity worship, to "CHRISTIAN martial arts", then it's all fine. No spiritual consequences whatsoever for oxymorons, or that's what they believe.

If only some would realise that the supernatural practices of the powers of darkness, through Satan's children, who even hold the needle machine in their hand, the same as scalpels during an operation in hospital. What choice do you have, after all, the Body of Christ has been infiltrated, seduced, and deceived by the doctrine of demons. We are in the latter days of perilous times.

If those people don't understand the realms of the supernatural, then what chance have those people when the time really comes.

I just wonder how many Christians have spoken out in regards to the spiritual seriousness and consequences of those "earthly and heavenly things of the supernatural realm. Oh well, those who reject knowledge and understanding, shall perish for their lack of knowledge and understanding.

After all we are not talking about SIN, but about consequence!

Ah well, His Word does say that they will be judged by their "idle words".

Be aware, beware, and don't be unaware.

 

[Malachi45]

Oh how nice. Let's see how to encourage kids to rebel against their parents. :-?

No matter. Rule 1 of parenting: Gain your child's respect. Once that happens all these other fall into place.

Still, even with the 'glorify God in your body' I think that the 'sinfulness' of tattooing is subjective. Naturally if one is convinced it is sin, for that one it is indeed sin. But, these things also can fall into subcultures. For a pastor of a middle-aged, middle-class church, a tattoo might truly harm one's witness and ministry. For a pro-Basketball player, a tattoo of Jesus emblazioned across the back might be a springboard of sharing the Gospel. My brother-in-law (Steve's brother) is a weekend biker dude. He works hard for a living, has a managerial position and has the money to spend on being a weekend biker dude. In the world of bikers, a tattoo is considered normal and a tat that pictures the gospel message can again, be a witness to those who really need it.

So what you are saying, that if all CHristians had a tattoo prominently placed, then evanglism would so much easier?

Well, in the world of bikers, it many be considered "normal", so please explain to me what "normal" means to a born-again Christian? And when you explain that, please go back to what was "normal" Christian life was two decades ago.

As His Word says that in the latter days of perilous time, false prophets and teacher will rise up and seduce and deceive, EVEN the ELECT, through the DOCTRINE OF DEMONS!

 

[Malachi45]

i never read the whole thread, i believe it would be scarification that is wrong not tattooing

Tattoo

Scarification

Hey John, same tattoos I am talking about that adorns some Christians as they express their SELF-idolatry and lawlessness and rebellion.

Those same Christians are unapproachable. They have anger, and their eyes tell you that.'

I haven't met one Christian who has adorned themself with tattoos who can say their life is love and forgiveness.

Like after all, drugs are not mentioned in His Word either, and their are some Christians who still smoke pot, after all, it's not a SIN to smoke, is it?

 

[John]

i never read the whole thread, i believe it would be scarification that is wrong not tattooing

Tattoo

Scarification

Hey John, same tattoos I am talking about that adorns some Christians as they express their SELF-idolatry and lawlessness and rebellion.

Those same Christians are unapproachable. They have anger, and their eyes tell you that.'

I haven't met one Christian who has adorned themself with tattoos who can say their life is love and forgiveness.

Like after all, drugs are not mentioned in His Word either, and their are some Christians who still smoke pot, after all, it's not a SIN to smoke, is it?

I must admit my knowledge of "what is a sin or not" is vague, there are some that are plain obvious (killing, lieing, homosexuality etc ) other i may have to read up on.

SMokeing, tattooing, rock music etc

 

[handy]

Folks, I'm locking this topic pending a staff discussion. Hopefully this will be a temporary lock.

 

[Rick W]

I had asked that pics of scarification not be presented in another thread. It seems I made that post without knowing about the pic in here.
This one isn't bad, in fact it's tame compared to the kind I was refering to in the other thread.
I can allow this one to remain only because it was posted before I made my request. But this must be the only and last one please. Scarification is definately body marking as is tattooing but the difference is obvious.
Please stay on topic with tattoos. That's all I ask.

Thank you.

 

[John]

I had asked that pics of scarification not be presented in another thread. It seems I made that post without knowing about the pic in here.
This one isn't bad, in fact it's tame compared to the kind I was refering to in the other thread.
I can allow this one to remain only because it was posted before I made my request. But this must be the only and last one please. Scarification is definately body marking as is tattooing but the difference is obvious.
Please stay on topic with tattoos. That's all I ask.

Thank you.

Roger that.

 

[handy]

Oh how nice. Let's see how to encourage kids to rebel against their parents. :-?

No matter. Rule 1 of parenting: Gain your child's respect. Once that happens all these other fall into place.

Still, even with the 'glorify God in your body' I think that the 'sinfulness' of tattooing is subjective. Naturally if one is convinced it is sin, for that one it is indeed sin. But, these things also can fall into subcultures. For a pastor of a middle-aged, middle-class church, a tattoo might truly harm one's witness and ministry. For a pro-Basketball player, a tattoo of Jesus emblazioned across the back might be a springboard of sharing the Gospel. My brother-in-law (Steve's brother) is a weekend biker dude. He works hard for a living, has a managerial position and has the money to spend on being a weekend biker dude. In the world of bikers, a tattoo is considered normal and a tat that pictures the gospel message can again, be a witness to those who really need it.

So what you are saying, that if all CHristians had a tattoo prominently placed, then evanglism would so much easier?

All? Obviously I didn't say that, as per the bolded statement, not to mention the more jocular but nonetheless true one about me and the reaction of my family if I were to get a tattoo. One must look at the work that the Lord gives one to do. The average person I come into contact with as per my witness are middle-aged ladies and school children. I hardly think that tatts would advance a good witness to them. However, if I were like my cousin, and worked at the women's correctional institute, it might be a different story.

Well, in the world of bikers, it many be considered "normal", so please explain to me what "normal" means to a born-again Christian? And when you explain that, please go back to what was "normal" Christian life was two decades ago.

Normal for Christians? Hmmmm, in Christ's day is wasn't exactly 'normal' for religious leaders to dine and associate with protitutes and tax-collecters (most of whom were theives). It also wasn't 'normal' for the disciples of religious leaders to 'eat, drink and be merry'. Jesus caught a lot of flack from the religious leaders of His day for not conforming to what was considered 'normal'. Believe or not, Christianity isn't confined to 1950's American style conservatism or even 1980's conservatism.

As His Word says that in the latter days of perilous time, false prophets and teacher will rise up and seduce and deceive, EVEN the ELECT, through the DOCTRINE OF DEMONS!

Doesn't the text say that they would deceive even the elect, if it were possible?

 

[Rick W]

Tattoos are simply a means of pleasing the world, seeking approval from the world for one thing or another and doing the things the world does. Some like to call it personal expression but if it wasn't popular to do so then nobody would care much about personal expression through a tattoo. Popularity drives the motivation and the world is the engine of popularity.
Is a tattoo a sin?
I think a better question would be is a tattoo prideful?
Is it pride to "fit in", to do what others are doing because it's supposed to be "cool"? Is it to lift the ego through some kind of self expression? ("self" being the keyword here) Or is it the thing to do because one doesn't want to look out of place not having one?
There's just no way to get around the fact that getting a tattoo is worldly. Does that mean I'm exempt from what I say? Not hardly. I still have a small scar from when I got my ear pierced by a girl with a needle and an ice cube procured from the barrel that held the beer keg. :
Yeah, it was pride.

 

[stovebolts]

Hey Potluck,
While I think in general you may be on to something, I also think that for some of us that have Tattoos, our motives may have been a bit different. Let me know what you think.

While I realize that there are many who go out and get tattoos because they want to be “inâ€Â, I can only say that I too have a tattoo of my initials which I received for just that very purpose. In addition, I also have another tattoo that I got as a form of self expression as well as it being an identifying mark within a particular cult that at the time, welcomed me with open arms when the rest of the world shunned me.

I have two more tattoos in particular that I had done during significant periods of my life. One is a fire breathing dragon perched upon his dagger with his tail coiled around the blade. I got the tattoo on the day of my divorce and to me; it signified how I had let my faith slip, and how I had allowed the compromise of morals and ethics to separate me from God. You see, the dragon was symbolic of me, while the dagger was symbolic of a cross, and I sitting upon my cross lay siege upon deceit while guarding against compromise. This symbol would serve as a personal reminder and as an oath to never compromise what I knew to be true in Christ.

On my right arm, I have a tattoo of the grim reaper robed in purple pulling his cowl back with his left hand exposing his rage filled face that is screaming out with piercing eyes as flames blazed behind and above him. In his right hand he holds the scales of justice, the bowls sitting in a storm of clouds. In the left basket, which is lighter, is a Chinese symbol for death set in flames. In the left basket, which is weightier, are two sparrows surrounded by clouds. One sparrow is on her back, while the other sparrow is swooping in to the younger. The younger on her back has her wing around the other. The essence of the tattoo is this, life outweighs death and the reaper held in restraint knew it to be true.

Why did I get these later tattoos? Simple, I was in much pain and agony in that period of my life, and I didn’t have anyone to support me. I was alone… and I needed something to keep me moving in the right direction. At that time, the tattoos served that purpose.

Was it sinful to get the tattoos? I suppose it doesn’t really matter at this point. But what does matter is how I use them, and how I view them today as they afford the opportunity to give glory to God through testimony how God can change, how God can heal, how God can restore his children.

 

[Veritas]

I think tattoos are no more sinful than being over weight (some tattoos, however, will have greater consequences on our lives). In many ways we don't treat our bodies as the temple it is for the Lord. We're broken. Regardless, I have no doubt that God can overcome and use our brokeness...even tattoos... for His good and His purposes.

 

[Rick W]

There are a lot of things worse than a tattoo. Heck, I could say that about anything. Anyway, it's the pride that must be broken to be useful in the spirit. Pride is quite whole, in one piece and doing well in most of us.
I don't think Jesus ever did anything for "self" but always for someone else's benefit. Pride serves self, charity (love) serves others. We in the flesh can't please God due to the element of pride that we battle with on a daily basis. We may win one battle only to be confronted with another. Some we win and some we lose either not being aware of it, not wanting to admit it or not having much thought anyway to care much about it. We can't save ourselves from our pride. But we CAN recognize it and it's that recognition that's the first step toward repentance.

Now, one may or may not be able to do much about a tattoo since removing one can be a very costly and painful ordeal. A tattoo can be just as permanent as any other decision made in the past. You can't change it, it's been done.

Everyone is tattooed on the inside. Maybe we should keep this in mind when speaking of tattoos that show.

 

[stovebolts]

Potluck,
I think your right about the pride. I suppose the only other thing I can say though is that sometimes pride acts as a double edged sword. In other words, sometimes is works for us, sometimes against us.

In the case of at least one of my tattoos, it represented hope from despair. It held that that life would emerge from the deepest darkness and someday, somehow good would prevail.
Sometimes, even contained within our humility is an underlying sense of pride that sits lurking just below the surface; unrecognizable until it is provoked unto consciousness through loss or tragedy. Like Job(and I draw no comparison between his life and mine other than pride), Job was a humble man, righteous in the sight of God who was pushed through experience to struggle with the bigger questions that ultimately expanded his view on whom YHVH is. So, in response to your statement, “We can’t save ourselves from prideâ€Â, I agree.

As far as appearing to “Win some battlesâ€Â, I found that when it comes to pride, and you believe your viewing the light at the end of the tunnel, watch out, cause it’s probably not the end of the tunnel, but rather another train…

 

[Rick W]

In other words, sometimes is works for us, sometimes against us.

I've been thinking about this all morning and haven't come up with anything much that pride does for us. I'm open to suggestions though. I've thought that maybe pride separates us from animals and where does the sense to do better things come from? Pride maybe? After all, a house is better than a cave or a leanto and I like running water and electricity. Do you think striving for improvement in areas like medicine and such could come from pride?
I don't know. I'm still thinking on that one.

 

[handy]

I was thinking about this thread as I drove into work today.

Malachi had asked, "Well, in the world of bikers, it many be considered "normal", so please explain to me what "normal" means to a born-again Christian? And when you explain that, please go back to what was "normal" Christian life was two decades ago."

And, that got me to thinking about conformity to the world as well. We all know that we are not to be conformed to this world, but rather be transformed by the renewing of our mind, that we may proved what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. (Romans 12:2)

The thing is, conformity is a tough cookie. Do some get tatts in order to conform to a certain subculture? Sure they do. But, heres another thing to think about: Do some reject the notion of tatts or technicolored hair or black leather clothes to conform to the world as well?

At the church I'm now going to, dress is pretty much what's known as 'casual Friday' dress. Good jeans (dark wash, no holes or frayed) or Dockers, skirt or slacks for some, blouse or shirt. Shorts in the summer, but belted shorts. Nicer clothes than the one's that I wear when pulling a calf, or working in the garden.

Now, let's take a couple of hypothetical folks:

Say Tom decides that he'll wear a $1000 Italian suit to church, cause he's got one.
Say Suzie decides that she's has to go out and buy some slacks, a skirt and a blouse, so that she can dress "appropriately" for church.
Say Larry decides that the church is just way too "buttoned down" and goes out, gets a tattoo and buys leathers and chains to wear to church, just to show everyone that God loves all of us, no matter what we look like or how we dress.

Who is conforming to the world? Who isn't allowing the transformation of their mind to the renewal of the Spirit?

Me, I'm not making any judgments on any of these folks, and I'm the author of this piece of fiction.

This is simply to illustrate what I mentioned before. I think that the over-riding Biblical principle on all of these things is that it is what comes out of the man rather than what goes into or onto the man. Only God is able to look at the heart of each of these individuals and tell if there is a pride problem, or a conformity problem, or a rebellious problem. As they grow in the Spirit, and are renewed in their minds, then the Spirit is more than able to convict or not to convict depending upon the heart of each person.

Me, I'd never get a tattoo, just not who I am. However, I do remember pulling out a credit card once to buy 'church' clothes, simply because I was still young and single, and there were really cute guys that went to the church. So, on the outside, I looked 'good'. I looked "Christian normal". But, on the inside, the Spirit was convicting me of sin.

 

[Malachi45]

Hi SB,

I can understand what you shared in regards to the tattoos that you have.

In the healing ministry there is much hurt expressed in many ways. And once all that inner hurt is dealt with through prayer and forgiveness, then HE remembers no more.

What has been done, has been done.

But, this discussion is about a Christian who wants to get a tattoo, or that is, I believe that what the discussion is about.

Anyway, how are you travelling after your meet up with our Lord Jesus CHrist?

 

[Malachi45]

Hi Dora,

Sorry if I was a bit confonting, but been too long in concern for those Christians who are searching for Healing and Deliverance from the powers of darkness, and I guess was a bit abrupt. Sorry if I appeared that way.

With all the mysticism, other religion practices, and oxymorons, I have become brittle in my old age.

I seen these same arguments, discussions and debates on things like alcohol, and many other things that His Word is silent on, and my heart gets so heavy, when I experienced it all, and know that Satan and his forces have many under their power.

I just cannot understand why a Christian would want a tatoo, and to see a Christian with the obnoxious tattoo that was poster earlier, and for them to say that it glorifies HIS KINGDOM.

Doesn't make sense, and there are many background things going on that many can see who have the spiritual gift of discerning of spirits.

Oh, well I will now shut down, because I've been speaking out for a long, long time of what our Lord Jesus Christ came to do, such as heal the broken-hearted, deliver them from evil, set the captives free, heal their sicknesses and cast out demons.

If only those can see the hidden darkness behind so many simple things that appears to be harmless, such as a simple, tattoo, just having a few social drinks, just a bit of yoga and martial arts because they can't hurt you if you call it Christian, and so on and on and on.

 

[stovebolts]

Hello Potluck,
Thanks for your reply. As far as Pride, I’m not sure that I have that one all figured out either. It almost seems like a healthy sense of pride is needed in our lives, yet if our pride feeds our ego to the point of empty glory (vain conceit) then it becomes counterproductive. Let me slide this your way and maybe you could respond.

First, I don’t think that pride is entirely a bad thing. For example, it’s not a bad thing to take pride in the things you do, but then, I also believe that we aren’t defined by what we do, but rather who we are. Where this comes back around (as far as I am able to reason) would be that the things we do are, are simple manifestations of who we are inwardly. In other words, it starts inward and moves out into something tangible.

I don’t know Potluck, maybe I have a misunderstanding on pride, but I’m proud of many things, such as the community of believers that I can count on to be the godly people they are. I take pride in boasting of their dedication to the work of God throughout our community. I also take pride in my son, who continually asks me questions and is eager to live out a good Christian life. But when I take pride in my son, I see this from three main vantage points, though I’m sure there are more and I am certain whole books have been written on this subject.

The first being a sense of accomplishment that my son is a reflection of the things I and my wife have taught him and have instilled into his moral character. When I see my son making unselfish choices putting others before him, or asking tender questions about concerning others, I admit that take pride in his growth. The second is how my son wants to please God and how he lives out the lessons that he’s learned either through our discussions, or what he’s been taught at Sunday school. The third is how God has moved and worked in my life to be blessed by such a family. In short, I take pride in our Savior, who set such a great examples, and endured such hardships for our salvation.

As in these examples, please notice that pride is inward, but it is expressed outward. In other words, it satisfies a portion of our inward soul by a pouring out for the needs of others. Again, perhaps I’ve mislabeled pride and if so, I welcome your input.

But as with anything, I think that pride can be used to our demise as well. I suppose an analogy that parallels pride that might be used as an axiom to drive the point is the saying, “There is a fine line between genius and insanity.†But then I suppose it’s all perspective o f who’s drawing the line…

 

[stovebolts]

Hi SB,

I can understand what you shared in regards to the tattoos that you have.

In the healing ministry there is much hurt expressed in many ways. And once all that inner hurt is dealt with through prayer and forgiveness, then HE remembers no more.

What has been done, has been done.

But, this discussion is about a Christian who wants to get a tattoo, or that is, I believe that what the discussion is about.

Anyway, how are you travelling after your meet up with our Lord Jesus CHrist?

Yes Malachi, what has been done has been done. Christ is even quoted as saying, “It is finishedâ€Â, yet we still remember his passion each week as instituted by the Lord himself when he said, “Do this in remembrance of me.â€Â

I only brought this up due to the topic and your above words where you say, “But, this discussion is about a Christian who wants to get a tattooâ€Â

I simply stated why I wanted a tattoo, and yes, I was a Christian when I receive my tattoos. As far as my journey with our Lord, it is only the Lord who can heal the broken hearted and restores the lost. Everything else, I believe, is a vain attempt in coping with a reactive tendency toward survival.

You also stated above, “In the healing ministry there is much hurt expressed in many ways. And once all that inner hurt is dealt with through prayer and forgiveness, then HE remembers no more.â€Â

As a community of believers in Christ, we should be there for each other in deep times of distress. When I had nobody else to turn to, when my family (all but my brother) turned their backs, when the pastor of my church turned his back, when I was all alone, broken and beaten and everything of value had been stripped or taken from my inner being, … Christ was already at work with his healing ministry… it only took me several years to realize what Christ looked like, and acknowledge his grace.

 

[Veritas]

On the pride bit...

I always remember the verse in Proverbs when I think of pride...

Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. Proverbs 16:18

But I did a little search on pride in the Bible after I remembered what Jesus said in John 10:34-35, He was refering to what was said in Psalms:

"I said, 'You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High.' Psalms 82:6

I think we can be proud in respect to our relationship to the Lord and through Christ. I think Paul explains when pride becomes a problem well in Galations...

If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, Galations 6:3-4