Taxing the Church

[jasonc]

That sucks. Taxes isn't the cause.... Hate to break that to you.

Yes it is in part.costs go up from things.the hospital must make break even,or how could it expand? Tax? It's run by that and some large donors.it also has a seperate tax district. That helps the indigent.

Tax exemption lOSS means ad valorem must be paid

 

[stovebolts]

Yes it is in part.costs go up from things.the hospital must make break even,or how could it expand? Tax? It's run by that and some large donors.it also has a seperate tax district. That helps the indigent.

Tax exemption lOSS means ad valorem must be paid

Not being able to keep up with taxes and costs to the point of bankruptcy is a symptom, not the disease.

 

[jasonc]

Not being able to keep up with taxes and costs to the point of bankruptcy is a symptom, not the disease.

The tax district is another issue. Uhm so raises costs is the answer? Jeff it's not just the irs,add ad valorem, franchise fees for utilities, county and state income taxes if applicable. Taxes are collected not paid for by the hospital.with a few exceptions. The hospital has to break even.government also make money in the form of utilities. Tax them too.

 

[stovebolts]

What I'm saying Jason is this.
Putting the tax issue aside, why are costs so high?
Did you know that hospitals all across the country are going bankrupt and then are being purchased by the insurance companies?
Think about that for a moment...

 

[jasonc]

My point isn't that we should tax municipal utilities even though they collect for others,but rather it's going to hurt honest church and 503c charities.

 

[jasonc]

What I'm saying Jason is this.
Putting the tax issue aside, why are costs so high?
Did you know that hospitals all across the country are going bankrupt and then are being purchased by the insurance companies?
Think about that for a moment...

Not here.the fir profit hospital to the north isn't owned by an insurance
The hospital that is non profit can't sell without county approval .it doesn't own the buiding.

 

[stovebolts]

Not here.the fir profit hospital to the north isn't owned by an insurance
The hospital that is non profit can't sell without county approval .it doesn't own the buiding.

Do they currently pay taxes?

 

[jasonc]

Do they currently pay taxes?

No,not as a non profit.the profit one ,I don't know.I would have to look at the tax page. The utilities I read don't extend to the other hospital

 

[stovebolts]

No,not as a non profit.the profit one ,I don't know.I would have to look at the tax page. The utilities I read don't extend to the other hospital

And that is exactly the point I was making. They are not going bankrupt because of taxes. They have bigger issues which honestly Jason, is outside the scope of this thread.

 

[jasonc]

And that is exactly the point I was making. They are not going bankrupt because of taxes. They have bigger issues which honestly Jason, is outside the scope of this thread.

The local one is in part of mismagenment.the other profit hospital is expanding and treats the indigent as well.to tax it will harm it.do you want to pay more.the non profit uses so much power that if the special meter to measure its usage would take 6 months to get.that's just that one meter.it has two other demands.it uses alot.a movie theater here uses 23k a month in power. Imagine what a hospital power bill is.its probably triple that.add a six percent franchise fee to it.it's alot.Nevermind the millions that could become taxable in ad valorem.I know that taxes alone but adding another nail to the coffin makes no sense.

 

[stovebolts]

The local one is in part of mismagenment.the other profit hospital is expanding and treats the indigent as well.to tax it will harm it.do you want to pay more.the non profit uses so much power that if the special meter to measure its usage would take 6 months to get.that's just that one meter.it has two other demands.it uses alot.a movie theater here uses 23k a month in power. Imagine what a hospital power bill is.its probably triple that.add a six percent franchise fee to it.it's alot.Nevermind the millions that could become taxable in ad valorem.I know that taxes alone but adding another nail to the coffin makes no sense.

Were talking about the non-profit right?
You say it's being mismanaged, yet it's a "church" ran business. Kinda tells me the "church" is sick. Again, the mismanagement is a symptom of something else bigger.
I want to get this straight, because your blurring the two hospitals and it's hard for me to separate which one your talking about.
You said taxing "it", would cause "it" harm. "it" is already in harm. "it", being the non-profit.
Here is what I'm understanding, Correct me if I have the wrong picture.
1. Non profit hospital is struggling to the brink of shutting it's doors.
2. Non profit is struggling due to mis-managment.

Because said non-profit doesn't know how to manage it's assets, it should be exempt from taxes because paying taxes would cause further harm.
Sounds like you want to reward dysfunction.

 

[stovebolts]

My point isn't that we should tax municipal utilities even though they collect for others,but rather it's going to hurt honest church and 503c charities.

Who was talking about taxing municipal utilities? Did I miss something? That kind of came out of left field... I thought we were talking about city, state and federal taxes.

 

[jasonc]

Were talking about the non-profit right?
You say it's being mismanaged, yet it's a "church" ran business. Kinda tells me the "church" is sick. Again, the mismanagement is a symptom of something else bigger.
I want to get this straight, because your blurring the two hospitals and it's hard for me to separate which one your talking about.
You said taxing "it", would cause "it" harm. "it" is already in harm. "it", being the non-profit.
Here is what I'm understanding, Correct me if I have the wrong picture.
1. Non profit hospital is struggling to the brink of shutting it's doors.
2. Non profit is struggling due to mis-managment.

Because said non-profit doesn't know how to manage it's assets, it should be exempt from taxes because paying taxes would cause further harm.
Sounds like you want to reward dysfunction.

The hospital isn't a church ran one
There are plenty dysfunctional government run things we don't suggest we increase funding ,no never,ie schools,the miltary in part,the va.

I used the tax district and the non profit hospital as an example.

 

[stovebolts]

The hospital isn't a church ran one
There are plenty dysfunctional government run things we don't suggest we increase funding ,no never,ie schools,the miltary in part,the va.

I used the tax district and the non profit hospital as an example.

You've got me completely lost Jason. I have no idea what in the world your talking about... Your like a squirrel.

 

[jasonc]

Who was talking about taxing municipal utilities? Did I miss something? That kind of came out of left field... I thought we were talking about city, state and federal taxes.

You don't know .if I lived in the county and was taxed by the city of vero beach for a franchise fee.the city collects 6 percent of my bill and pays the county for an agreed rate.they county doesn't maintain right of ways. The utilitiy in the area does.city lines,the city maintains the lines.the grass et all is cut by the county or property owner.depending on the lot

 

[jasonc]

You've got me completely lost Jason. I have no idea what in the world your talking about... Your like a squirrel.

503c churches can run those,a church itself is a 501c both are exempt from taxes

 

[jasonc]

http://www.indian-river.fl.us/health/hospitals/irmh.html

This was not started by the county but by a nurse.up to 1938 we had no hospital.I mentioned church ran no profits as well st Jude is one,so is the shriners

 

[Obadiah]

Im not condemning, I just know scripture and it says if people are willing to give, give to those in need, the poor and the needy. A person who decides to establish a second meeting house for all believers when they all already live inside a house is not a need, its a want.

And there ya go. You say you aren't condemning, and then you condemn. What more can I say?

 

[jasonc]

And there ya go. You say you aren't condemning, and then you condemn. What more can I say?

I'm not into big massive churches but God uses both big and small if He chooses

 

[Corn Pop]

And there ya go. You say you aren't condemning, and then you condemn. What more can I say?

So exposing the truth is condemning. Im not the judge, Christ is, and if people would rather donate to the wants and not the needs thats between them and God. Im not telling people what they can or cannot do, im just exposing where there going wrong. If that is called comdemning.

People think there donation is going to the needy but its going to a want and the needy are still in need.

A church building is not needy, it is a man made establishment by CHOICE. A person who has no food or roof over there head is needy.

If someone decides to establish a church for meeting and its struggling so be it, there not needy, it was a choice to establish it.

Im sorry but I think the Church thinks about itself before others.