Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions

[Alfred Persson]

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ)

I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a "virtual reality" (false vision) where traveling to heaven [the equivalent of an abduction by "aliens" to other planets], can telepathically deceive humans:

Your prophets have seen (02372 חָזָה chazah) for you False and deceptive visions; They have not uncovered your iniquity, To bring back your captives, But have envisioned (02372 חָזָה chazah ) for you false prophecies and delusions. (Lam. 2:14 NKJ)
02372 חָזָה chazah
Meaning: 1) to see, perceive, look, behold, prophesy, provide 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to see, behold 1a2) to see as a seer in the ecstatic state 1a3) to see, perceive 1a3a) with the intelligence 1a3b) to see (by experience) 1a3c) to provide.-Strong's Concordance
Compare "Vision (02377 חָזוֹן chazown) in Jer. 14:14; "Angel of light" 2 Cor. 11:14; Telepathic delivery (Lk. 8:12; 1 Tim. 4:1; Inwardly working "energy of delusion" 1753 ἐνέργεια energeia 2 Thess. 2:9, 11)

Notice the difference between Paul's trip to third heaven, and those reported today. Unlike Paul, modern "visionaries" know they are "out of the body":

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows-- such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I know such a man-- whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows-- (2 Cor. 12:2-3 NKJ)

Counterfeits are identified by their dissimilarity with the genuine. Paul didn't know if he was "out of the body," that means his experience was different than modern "visionaries" or "abductees".

The following is a False Vision I experienced. [I publicly thank God the Holy Spirit who brought to my remembrance the Scripture we MUST "test the spirits" to objectively learn if they are from God, for many false prophets have been thus inspired to go forth into the world 1 John 4:1]:

More than forty years ago, having publicly confessed Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (Mt. 10:32) I knew I was saved (Rom. 10:9-13), born again (John 3:3-4; 20:31).

One night while wondering what to do next, I was suddenly out of my body and went to what I thought was third heaven.

Everywhere brilliant light, furnishings all gold and crystal jeweled, beautiful. Telepathically I heard a glorious angel saying, "prophet to the nations I have made you."

Then a book I could not read appeared, written in symbols strange characters.

"Drink from this cup so your eyes will be opened." But the gold goblet was filled with dark liquid, the blackest black.

I recoiled in fear, I sensed it was evil.

The angel became stern, foreboding. A feeling I was "blaspheming the Spirit" became so strong I could barely think.

But it was the real Holy Spirit who brought to my remembrance the scripture, God's command we "test the spirits".

At that time I was paralyzed by the fear I was about to blaspheme the Spirit, that almost stopped me.

But I thought to myself, "Scripture says I must test, therefore I must obey God and do as Scripture commands!" So I asked the angel:

"Can you confess Jesus Christ is your LORD? (1 Cor. 12:3). Do you confess Jesus Christ came in the flesh?" (1 Jn 4:3)

Suddenly the angel became hideous, its disguise dropped (2 Cor. 11:14) and I sensed demonic hate and evil directed at me.

Then I felt yanked out as if grabbed by the collar of my jacket. I awoke in my room. I couldn't sleep at all after that.[1]

Spirits can telepathically download a virtual reality as real as the Matrix was to Neo, and collaborate with corporeal angels to produce a mass delusion as they did during the Fatima and "Dancing of the Sun" prefiguring modern UFO contactee events. Everything experienced is as real as it gets. There is no essential difference between an immersive "out of body trip to heaven" or "abduction experience often with sadistic surgical procedures". BOTH can be halted by those who have faith Jesus Christ is LORD. God commands we "test the spirits" and He will honor all who obey His Word.

As John and Paul insist the test works on prophets while under control of the spirit, the test also works on the spirits when they appear by themselves in dreams, visions, or voices.

Spirits can disguise themselves as angels of light, extraterrestrial beings, departed loved ones, respected Bible personalities, in dreams visions and voices. Demand everyone who appears to you in a "vivid dream" or "vision" they confess "Jesus Christ is LORD", or "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh". Spirits cannot lie about these things or God wouldn't have put these objective tests in the Scripture for us to use. Regardless the disguise, spirits must reply to the demand they confess Jesus and if they can't they will be exposed. The vision or "abduction in progress" will immediately end.

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...

endtimenews.net

 

[Alfred Persson]

Its curious no one comments on this, given the popularity of dreams and prophecies people hear in church.

While God does communicate using dreams, my own personal experience has been "100% of them are NOT of God."

They all were trying to seduce my soul to evil, and so my first reaction is to reject the dream.

Discern what Satan was trying to do, and make sure it didn't take root---begging God to deliver me from the evil one.

I only trust the "objective truth in Scripture". It alone is 100% dependable.

Dreams, visions, voices, thought impressions, bodily sensations, it all can be satanically generated telepathically.

Satan can even disguise it is him arguing against believing the gospel of Christ:

"Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Lk. 8:12 NKJ)

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. (2 Cor. 4:3-4 NKJ)


When someone wants to share a dream, I remember what is written:

21 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran. I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in My counsel, And had caused My people to hear My words, Then they would have turned them from their evil way And from the evil of their doings.
23 "Am I a God near at hand," says the LORD, "And not a God afar off?
24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?" says the LORD; "Do I not fill heaven and earth?" says the LORD.
25 "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying,`I have dreamed, I have dreamed!'
26 "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,
27 "who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.
28 "The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD.
29 "Is not My word like a fire?" says the LORD, "And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
30 "Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who steal My words every one from his neighbor.
31 "Behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who use their tongues and say,`He says.'
32 "Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," says the LORD, "and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all," says the LORD. (Jer. 23:21-32 NKJ)

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. (Jude 1:8-13 NKJ)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Its curious no one comments on this, given the popularity of dreams and prophecies people hear in church.

My only comments would be that I would certainly stay away from whatever spirit that was that gave you your experience, but I have not encountered many if any who ever definitively said they knew they were in body or out of body. The only one I recall saying anything about that at all said the same thing Paul said; that he didn't know whether it was in the body or out of it.

But the whole thing is kinda operating on supposition anyway.

While God does communicate using dreams, my own personal experience has been "100% of them are NOT of God."

They all were trying to seduce my soul to evil, and so my first reaction is to reject the dream.

See, again I would advise you not to judge things based only on your own experience. For whatever reason, you are falling victim to the wrong spirit instead of the Holy Spirit, and that in and of itself I would find a little troubling...

 

[Alfred Persson]

My only comments would be that I would certainly stay away from whatever spirit that was that gave you your experience, but I have not encountered many if any who ever definitively said they knew they were in body or out of body. The only one I recall saying anything about that at all said the same thing Paul said; that he didn't know whether it was in the body or out of it.

But the whole thing is kinda operating on supposition anyway.


See, again I would advise you not to judge things based only on your own experience. For whatever reason, you are falling victim to the wrong spirit instead of the Holy Spirit, and that in and of itself I would find a little troubling...

Don't be concerned, the Holy Spirit permitted the testing so I know Scripture alone is to be trusted.

God gave us the Bible to guide our feet, not experiences:

Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path. (Ps. 119:105 NKJ)

Whenever I want to know God's will, or have divine guidance about something puzzling me, I diligently search the scriptures for the answer. And I get it every time.

16 "Take heed to yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them,
17 "lest the LORD'S anger be aroused against you, and He shut up the heavens so that there be no rain, and the land yield no produce, and you perish quickly from the good land which the LORD is giving you.
18 "Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 "You shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
20 "And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates,
21 "that your days and the days of your children may be multiplied in the land of which the LORD swore to your fathers to give them, like the days of the heavens above the earth. (Deut. 11:16-21 NKJ)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Don't be concerned, the Holy Spirit permitted the testing so I know Scripture alone is to be trusted.

This position seems to vilify the use of dreams and visions, when scripture itself teaches that the Lord will use dreams and visions in the end-times to speak both to His people and through them. If you know scripture is to be trusted, why do you speak condemningly of what the scriptures teach on this subject?

 

[Alfred Persson]

This position seems to vilify the use of dreams and visions, when scripture itself teaches that the Lord will use dreams and visions in the end-times to speak both to His people and through them. If you know scripture is to be trusted, why do you speak condemningly of what the scriptures teach on this subject?

A warning to be careful is not vilifying.

Cautioning would be "dreamers" that over the past 45+ years as a Holy Spirit filled believer, NONE of the dreams or visions I had were "of God", is a warning to be careful.

lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Cor. 2:11 NKJ)


Dreams and visions are inferior to Scripture. We don't know if a dream or vision is from God, but Scripture we KNOW is from God.

As for modern Dreamers and visionaries and prophets, I connected the dots.

They revile Satan as though they have authority and power to do so:

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. (Jude 1:8-10 NKJ)

They do not.

Reviling Satan disrespects God's Sovereignty, He granted Satan permission to do as he does.

God permits Satan separate the wheat from the chaff during their short life spans, it serves God's purpose.

God permitted Satan test Peter. Jesus didn't deny Satan had divine permission to do so:

31 And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.
32 "But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren." (Lk. 22:31-32 NKJ)

No reviling, no ordering Satan leave Simon alone.

Prayer to God is the defense against Satan, also faith and God's Word, the Sword of the Spirit:

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints-- (Eph. 6:12-18 NKJ)

 

[Hidden In Him]

A warning to be careful is not vilifying.

Cautioning would be "dreamers" that over the past 45+ years as a Holy Spirit filled believer, NONE of the dreams or visions I had were "of God", is a warning to be careful.

Again, you are applying your own experience to everyone else as if the two are one and the same. This is a presumption on your part, and you are discarding scripture in the name of professing to give scripture primacy.

As for modern Dreamers and visionaries and prophets, I connected the dots.

They revile Satan as though they have authority and power to do so

This mysterious "they" you are talking about, lol...

Let's discuss this. I receive dreams and visions, and I prophesy, and have been doing so for many years now. Since you are apparently categorizing all "dreamers and visionaries" under the same umbrella, where have I ever reviled Satan in keeping with Jude 1:8-10?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Again, you are applying your own experience to everyone else as if the two are one and the same. This is a presumption on your part, and you are discarding scripture in the name of professing to give scripture primacy.


This mysterious "they" you are talking about, lol...

Let's discuss this. I receive dreams and visions, and I prophesy, and have been doing so for many years now. Since you are apparently categorizing all "dreamers and visionaries" under the same umbrella, where have I ever reviled Satan in keeping with Jude 1:8-10?

Very interesting. I have no opinion on your prophesies etc., never heard them.

But I am very interested. If God were granting me divine revelations, I would interpret the "bible difficulties" that give scholars find hard to interpret, shed light on them proving I was inspired by God.

Do you have any examples of that?

For example, why aren't these numbers the same:

the sons of Adonikam, 666; (Ezr. 2:13 NAU)

the sons of Adonikam, 667; (Neh. 7:18 NAU)

 

[Mungo]

I had a dream that I know came from God.
It was a confirmation of a big decision that my wife and I had made about our future plans.
It didn't just come out of my head because I didn't understand it and had to contact someone I knew who knew something about christian interpretation of dreams. He gave me some points which didn't make much sense to him but they did to me.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I had a dream that I know came from God.
It was a confirmation of a big decision that my wife and I had made about our future plans.
It didn't just come out of my head because I didn't understand it and had to contact someone I knew who knew something about christian interpretation of dreams. He gave me some points which didn't make much sense to him but they did to me.

I'm happy you had a dream you think came from God, that is a wonderful experience.

But to clarify, you don't claim to be prophet, do you? To have divine inspiration?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Very interesting. I have no opinion on your prophesies etc., never heard them.

One of my more recent, but I reference others in the thread (See Post #16).

The Destruction Of The Churches (US and Canada)

I will be citing several prophetic dreams I've received from others in this thread, but the gist of it is that the destruction of Christian churches in the West is coming, and is already underway in Canada as I will show in a second. But the dreams also suggest it will be increasingly coming to...

christianforums.net

But I am very interested. If God were granting me divine revelations, I would interpret the "bible difficulties" that give scholars find hard to interpret, shed light on them proving I was inspired by God.

The Lord has revealed numerous divine revelations to me on Bible Difficulties, but that doesn't come through dreams. It comes through Spirit-led study of the original texts. As for those like the ones you cited, that's the sort of thing that never concerned me very much. Most are very easily explained, and if that's simply a scribal error it wouldn't bother me much either, so I rarely care.

God bless,
- H

 

[Hidden In Him]

But to clarify, you don't claim to be prophet, do you? To have divine inspiration?

This is not the same thing. My office is not as a prophet. My office is teacher. But one need not hold the office of prophet to prophesy any more than no one but a teacher can teach. Paul encouraged the entire congregation at Corinth to prophesy in turn, and let others interpret. Unless the entire congregation were nothing but prophets, this makes no sense according to modern misconceptions about prophets being the only ones who can prophesy.

Most churches don't operate in it at all anymore, hence why they have very little Biblical understanding on the subject.

 

[Alfred Persson]

One of my more recent, but I reference others in the thread (See Post #16).

The Destruction Of The Churches (US and Canada)

I will be citing several prophetic dreams I've received from others in this thread, but the gist of it is that the destruction of Christian churches in the West is coming, and is already underway in Canada as I will show in a second. But the dreams also suggest it will be increasingly coming to...

christianforums.net

The Lord has revealed numerous divine revelations to me on Bible Difficulties, but that doesn't come through dreams. It comes through Spirit-led study of the original texts. As for those like the ones you cited, that's the sort of thing that never concerned me very much. Most are very easily explained, and if that's simply a scribal error it wouldn't bother me much either, so I rarely care.

God bless,
- H

The simple reason I didn't ask for prophetic examples is we can't know if its true or false prophecy until the future. But divine guidance understanding scripture is something I can evaluate.

11 "There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the Spirit of the Holy God. And in the days of your father, light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, were found in him; and King Nebuchadnezzar your father-- your father the king-- made him chief of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers.
12 "Inasmuch as an excellent spirit, knowledge, understanding, interpreting dreams, solving riddles, and explaining enigmas were found in this Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar, now let Daniel be called, and he will give the interpretation." (Dan. 5:11-12 NKJ)


To convince a "Cessationist" like me God is providing you with prophetic revelation,the only real time proof would be solving bible riddles and difficulties that 100% conforms to the text, but scholars couldn't agree on the interpretation because God didn't reveal it to them:

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that `Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Lk. 8:10 NKJ)

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (Jn. 14:26 NKJ)

Solving Bible riddles and enigmas would indicate the mysteries of the Kingdom were being revealed through you.

4394 προφητεία propheteia
Meaning: 1) prophecy 1a) a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden. Strong's

Examples proving you are an "inspired teacher" who has the gift of prophecy so that a
"Cessationist Christian" like myself can know you receive revelation from God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

To convince a "Cessationist" like me God is providing you with prophetic revelation,the only real time proof would be solving bible riddles and difficulties that 100% conforms to the text, but scholars couldn't agree on the interpretation because God didn't reveal it to them

LoL. I knew this was coming. Alfred, I mean you no offense by this, but while the spirit you have been receiving dreams from is demonic, what makes you think you are going to have the spiritual discernment to tell right from wrong doctrinally?

That just relegates things to mere theological debate, and the assumption that you would be right is a fallacy that would keep you in darkness. I have already shared with you one of them, and you passed over it as if you didn't have ears to hear. What makes you think you would have ears to hear anything else?

 

[Hidden In Him]

The simple reason I didn't ask for prophetic examples is we can't know if its true or false prophecy until the future.

I know you won't like this, but it is not really directed at you anyway. But the spirit within you also appears to be lying at this point. You just got through telling me the exact opposite in Post #8 when I mentioned having received dreams and visions:

Very interesting. I have no opinion on your prophesies etc., never heard them. But I am very interested.

 

[Alfred Persson]

LoL. I knew this was coming. Alfred, I mean you no offense by this, but while the spirit you have been receiving dreams from is demonic, what makes you think you are going to have the spiritual discernment to tell right from wrong doctrinally?

That just relegates things to mere theological debate, and the assumption that you would be right is a fallacy that would keep you in darkness. I have already shared with you one of them, and you passed over it as if you didn't even have ears to hear. What makes you think you would have ears to hear anything else?

Produce examples of your inspiration and we will find out.

Its been my experience those who claim to have the gift of prophecy fail miserably when trying to interpret scripture scholars couldn't.

The proof of that is objective, not subjective. It doesn't require special discernment to know when someone is contradicting details in scripture.

I don't understand your reluctance to document the inspiration you receive from God. Surely a teacher with the gift of prophecy would have amassed many examples of this over time.

If I didn't act correctly according to the scriptures, everyone would know I wasn't being fair and it would serve to support your claim, and cast doubt on my Cessationist position.

Logically, you should "jump at the chance" to prove how wrong I am.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Produce examples of your inspiration and we will find out.

No you won't, LoL.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I know you won't like this, but it is not really directed at you anyway. But the spirit within you also appears to be lying at this point. You just got through telling me the exact opposite in Post #8 when I mentioned having received dreams and visions:

I am interested, but I can't have an opinion on prophecies I never heard. I did plan on reading your prophecy about the churches. But it won't prove to be true prophecy until the future, that makes it irrelevant to the task before you, which is to prove you have the gift of prophecy documenting the mysteries of the kingdom are being revealed to you, that were hidden in Scripture and others couldn't see.

No you won't, LoL.

Yes, I would and everyone following our discussion would learn the wonderful mysteries of the Kingdom being revealed through you.

Your reluctance to document your claim is odd for someone so certain of their position.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No you won't, LoL.

Yes I would. Here is a perfect test of your inspiration. God has sealed up till our time, the meaning of this prophecy. Surely a teacher with the gift of prophecy will easily unseal the words:

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?"
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 "Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 "Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
13 "But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."
(Dan. 12:6-13 NKJ)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes, I would and everyone following our discussion would learn the wonderful mysteries of the Kingdom being revealed through you.

Your reluctance to document your claim is odd for someone so certain of their position.

No, Alfred. I appreciate your discussing these matters cordially, and we've had cordial discussions on other subjects as well. But I know where the above would lead. Many assume they would have ears to hear but they don't. It's not the end of the world to me. I'm very used to it at this point, and hold my peace about 90 - 95% of the time whenever I read things being stated on forums that are incorrect, because unless the person is in a position to receive then I'd be wasting my time. Prayer is more in order than posting.

But while I think you might be able to receive, I don't think you are in the current context, judging not only on discernment but on your reactions so far. So the wise move for a wise man is to wait. As for my being unwilling to listen myself, I know my own heart, and that is patently false. I simply see a lot of holes in what some people teach, but am usually not in the mood for debating it.