Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions

[Alfred Persson]

Most are superficial, and the few that aren't don't know how to interpret their own visions very well.

I prophesied the exact opposite.

I don't understand your response. "Superficial"? Don't know how to interpret their visions?

According to Scripture, failed predictions prove the LORD did not speak through them. Under the law such would be put to death:

20 `But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'
21 "And if you say in your heart,`How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'--
22 "when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. (Deut. 18:20-22 NKJ)

When someone says "Thus saith the Lord", they claim to be quoting God, not interpreting visions.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't understand your response. "Superficial"

Spiritually superficial. Many profess Christ, and even claim to "prophecy" by the Spirit of God but are operating in the power of the flesh instead. it's very similar to how some teachers and pastors are rather superficial in their understanding of the word, so they teach "thus says the Lord" when the word actually teaches no such thing.

According to Scripture, failed predictions prove the LORD did not speak through them. Under the law such would be put to death

? We should still be under Jewish law and have them put to death?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Spiritually superficial. Many profess Christ, and even claim to "prophecy" by the Spirit of God but are operating in the power of the flesh instead. it's very similar to how some teachers and pastors are rather superficial in their understanding of the word, so they teach "thus says the Lord" when the word actually teaches no such thing.


? We should still be under Jewish law and have them put to death?

Prophets who can be so wrong should be ignored, just as we ignore others who often get it wrong. They don't fit the standard of a prophet speaking revelation from God, which is error free and always true.

However, if their prophecy is little more than "inspired Bible readings" (which could be wrong), not really on the level as "the word of God", that would be different. That seems to be what the Corinthian "prophets" were, just on fire believers who believed "God revealed something" to them. The other "prophets" had to "distinguish between what may have come from God, and what came from self delusion:

29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.
30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.
31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. (1 Cor. 14:29-31 NKJ)

Notice it says "you can all prophesy", that means everyone was a potential "prophet", therefore its not real prophecy in the "word of God" sense.

Paul later denies anything the Corinthians prophesied was the "word of God"

36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? (1 Cor. 14:36 NKJ)

That's why I can see a Cessationist "on fire church" in chapter 14 of Corinthians with the only exception there are no tongues speakers. Tongues were a sign to the Jews Christ was now the way, and they ceased shortly after the Temple was destroyed, the final sign Judaism was over.

This isn't like a modern Pentecostal church where everyone babbles with no interpreter, and only a few claim to be prophets.





I mention OT stoning of prophets to emphasize the gravity of someone claiming to speak for the LORD, when He hasn't spoken. The point it, God takes it very seriously, not that we should stone them, even if that would cut down radically on the prophets making mistakes.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Can you show from the scriptures where to find the gift og special revelation that ended in the 1st century?

The question you posed asks: "Can you show from the scriptures where to find the gifts of special revelation ended in the 1st century?" The scriptures may not explicitly state this, but a careful interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 suggests the cessation of the extraordinary gifts of revelation.

In this passage, Apostle Paul speaks of love as a constant, unfailing force, but he foretells that prophecies, tongues, and knowledge will eventually cease or vanish. He describes these revelatory gifts as "partial", indicating they are temporary and will be replaced when the "perfect" or "complete" comes. This has often been interpreted as a reference to Christ's return. Paul, along with many early Christians, believed this return could be imminent.

Paul uses the metaphor of childhood and adulthood in verses 11-12 to illustrate this transformation. As he puts it, "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things." These "partial" gifts of revelation can be seen as the "childish things", becoming obsolete as we transition into spiritual "adulthood", a time when we will see God "face to face" and "know just as I am known".

It's conceivable that as these gifts began to fade, it might have prompted fears of abandonment by God among the Corinthians. This might explain why Paul starts his letter with words of reassurance, emphasizing God's faithfulness and the grace given through Christ Jesus (1 Cor. 1:3-9).

As this transition took place, it led to divisions within the Corinthian church, separating those seeking "signs" from those pursuing "wisdom" (1 Cor. 1:17-24). The majority, seemingly focused on non-charismatic issues, appeared less concerned about the cessation of the gifts (1 Cor. 14:39).

Paul's expectation of the imminent arrival of "the Perfect" or "Complete", combined with historical records that suggest a gradual disappearance of the extraordinary gifts after the 1st century, lend support to the cessationist view. Furthermore, passages such as Hebrews 2:2-4 refer to the extraordinary gifts as past events, bolstering the notion that the era of special revelation ended sometime after the apostolic age.

While the cessation of these extraordinary gifts isn't explicitly declared, careful interpretation of the scriptures, in combination with early Christian tradition, strongly supports the cessationist position over continualism.

 

[JLB]

The question you posed asks: "Can you show from the scriptures where to find the gifts of special revelation ended in the 1st century?" The scriptures may not explicitly state this, but a careful interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 suggests the cessation of the extraordinary gifts of revelation.

In this passage, Apostle Paul speaks of love as a constant, unfailing force, but he foretells that prophecies, tongues, and knowledge will eventually cease or vanish. He describes these revelatory gifts as "partial", indicating they are temporary and will be replaced when the "perfect" or "complete" comes. This has often been interpreted as a reference to Christ's return. Paul, along with many early Christians, believed this return could be imminent.

Paul uses the metaphor of childhood and adulthood in verses 11-12 to illustrate this transformation. As he puts it, "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things." These "partial" gifts of revelation can be seen as the "childish things", becoming obsolete as we transition into spiritual "adulthood", a time when we will see God "face to face" and "know just as I am known".

It's conceivable that as these gifts began to fade, it might have prompted fears of abandonment by God among the Corinthians. This might explain why Paul starts his letter with words of reassurance, emphasizing God's faithfulness and the grace given through Christ Jesus (1 Cor. 1:3-9).

As this transition took place, it led to divisions within the Corinthian church, separating those seeking "signs" from those pursuing "wisdom" (1 Cor. 1:17-24). The majority, seemingly focused on non-charismatic issues, appeared less concerned about the cessation of the gifts (1 Cor. 14:39).

Paul's expectation of the imminent arrival of "the Perfect" or "Complete", combined with historical records that suggest a gradual disappearance of the extraordinary gifts after the 1st century, lend support to the cessationist view. Furthermore, passages such as Hebrews 2:2-4 refer to the extraordinary gifts as past events, bolstering the notion that the era of special revelation ended sometime after the apostolic age.

While the cessation of these extraordinary gifts isn't explicitly declared, careful interpretation of the scriptures, in combination with early Christian tradition, strongly supports the cessationist position over continualism.

I find it amazing how people can write a post like this and never once use one single scripture to validate their claims.

Here is a scripture for you to consider.

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
2 Timothy 3:1-5




JLB

 

[Alfred Persson]

I find it amazing how people can write a post like this and never once use one single scripture to validate their claims.

Here is a scripture for you to consider.

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
2 Timothy 3:1-5




JLB

Yes, I have considered that verse.

Its not about Cessationists obeying God's Truth living godly lives like Paul the apostle , its about money loving miracle workers doing signs and wonders resisting God's Truth; slaves to lust having no self-control!

Magicians like Jannes and Jambres who resisted Moses.
11 But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
12 For every man threw down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods. (Exod. 7:11-12 NKJ)

The earliest reference to our magicians occurs in the Damascus Document, fragments of which have been discovered in the Cairo Geniza and more recently at Qumran. The date of this work has been given as c. 100 B.C.-Pietersma, A., & Lutz, R. T. (1985).

They 'denied the power of God to live godly lives!'

Paul contrasts these miracle working magicians who resisted God's Truth taught by Moses, to himself and his manner of living obedient to God's Truth in godliness!

1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:

2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;

9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance,
11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra-- what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. (2 Tim. 3:1-13 NKJ)

Compare:

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. (2 Tim. 4:3-4 NKJ)


1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, (1 Tim. 4:1-2 NKJ)

5. the appearance of piety: Paul uses the noun morphōsis (form, Testament of Benjamin 10:1) also in Rom 2:20, but there more in the sense of “formulation,” whereas here the term refers to an outward form that is denied by actions. For eusebeia (piety), see the NOTE on 1 Tim 2:2. The contrast between outer profession of virtue and inner vice is constant in the polemic used between rival teachers in antiquity (Aelius Aristides, On the Four 307:6, 10; Epictetus, Discourses 4.8.5–9; Julian, Orations 6:197C; 7:223C). See also the NOTE on 1 Tim 4:2.

denying its power: It is unlikely that “denying” (ērnēmenoi) is confessional; it is rather a denial in the form of behavior (compare 2 Tim. 2:13). Once more, we see the importance of the “power” (dynamis) of the eusebeia shared by Paul and his delegate (2 Tim. 1:7, 8, 12; 2:1); as in the undisputed letters, it is the power of the message to transform lives that is its most convincing feature.-Johnson, L. T. (2008). The first and second letters to Timothy: a new translation with introduction and commentary (Vol. 35A, p. 406). Yale University Press.