that the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) through Him might be saved

[Alfred Persson]

that the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) through Him might be saved.

16 "For God so loved the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) to condemn the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos), but that the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18 NKJ)
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole (3650 ὅλος world (2889 κόσμος kosmos). (1 Jn. 2:2 NKJ)
3650 ὅλος holos
Meaning: 1) all, whole, completely.-Strong's Concordance

The logic of Christ's descent from "the heavenlies" to "the kosmos", God's love for the entire kosmos His sending His Son to set free human captives and prisoners, requires the human population in the realm of the dead be included in the universal reconciliation accomplished "through the blood of His cross" (Col. 1:16-20) . This conclusion is confirmed by Christ's subsequent preaching to the dead (1 Pet. 3:18-22; 4:5-6).

Excluding the billions who never heard the gospel would shortchange Christ's sacrifice which has infinite value for redemption purposes. In other words, God overpaid if billions of dead are not saved by His sacrifice.

In John 3:16-18 "world" (2889 κόσμος kosmos) appears four times, contrasting the kosmos from whence God’s Son came with "the kosmos of humanity." That the Kosmos He was sent to save includes the realm of the dead is confirmed by His subsequent decent into the realm of the dead (1 Pet. 3:18-22; Eph. 4:8-10) and the reconciliation of all things through Him (Col. 1:20). This universality is confirmed by the symmetry of 1 Peter 4:5-6 where God is Judge of the living and dead and the gospel is preached to the living and also to the dead, so that both can be judged according to men in the flesh but live according to God. Moreover, as belief or nonbelief in Christ are the only grounds for determining salvation or condemnation (Mark 16:16; John 3:16, 18; 5:24; 6:40; 8:24; 11:25-26; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:12; 10:43; 13:38-39; Rom. 3:22; 4:24-25; 10:9-10; 2 Thes. 1:8-9; Gal. 2:16; 3:22; Eph. 2:8-9; Phil. 2:9; Heb. 11:6; 1 Peter 2:6-8; 1 John 5:10-13; Rev. 21:8) it follows Christ's atoning sacrifice is made available to all humans living and dead. Christ was sent to set free captives and prisoners (Isa. 61:1; Luke 4:18) which describes the condition of the dead perfectly.

To say God loved only the living in the Kosmos and not the dead is like saying firemen sent to a burning house have no concern for those in the basement.

Therefore, it is consistent with scripture we conclude God sent His Son to save the entire kosmos (Jn. 1:9, 29; 4:42; Rm. 5:10; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:19) whether living or dead (Jn. 5:24-25, 28-29; Heb. 9:27-28; 1 Pt. 4:6) , all born into it since the world began. (Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:24-26; 1 Jn. 2:2; 4:9-10; 8:32).

This is NOT universal salvation, its universal opportunity, that whosoever believes should not perish but have eternal life (John 3:15-17).

 

[hawkman]

that the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) through Him might be saved.


The logic of Christ's descent from "the heavenlies" to "the kosmos", God's love for the entire kosmos His sending His Son to set free human captives and prisoners, requires the human population in the realm of the dead be included in the universal reconciliation accomplished "through the blood of His cross" (Col. 1:16-20) . This conclusion is confirmed by Christ's subsequent preaching to the dead (1 Pet. 3:18-22; 4:5-6).

Excluding the billions who never heard the gospel would shortchange Christ's sacrifice which has infinite value for redemption purposes. In other words, God overpaid if billions of dead are not saved by His sacrifice.

In John 3:16-18 "world" (2889 κόσμος kosmos) appears four times, contrasting the kosmos from whence God’s Son came with "the kosmos of humanity." That the Kosmos He was sent to save includes the realm of the dead is confirmed by His subsequent decent into the realm of the dead (1 Pet. 3:18-22; Eph. 4:8-10) and the reconciliation of all things through Him (Col. 1:20). This universality is confirmed by the symmetry of 1 Peter 4:5-6 where God is Judge of the living and dead and the gospel is preached to the living and also to the dead, so that both can be judged according to men in the flesh but live according to God. Moreover, as belief or nonbelief in Christ are the only grounds for determining salvation or condemnation (Mark 16:16; John 3:16, 18; 5:24; 6:40; 8:24; 11:25-26; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:12; 10:43; 13:38-39; Rom. 3:22; 4:24-25; 10:9-10; 2 Thes. 1:8-9; Gal. 2:16; 3:22; Eph. 2:8-9; Phil. 2:9; Heb. 11:6; 1 Peter 2:6-8; 1 John 5:10-13; Rev. 21:8) it follows Christ's atoning sacrifice is made available to all humans living and dead. Christ was sent to set free captives and prisoners (Isa. 61:1; Luke 4:18) which describes the condition of the dead perfectly.

To say God loved only the living in the Kosmos and not the dead is like saying firemen sent to a burning house have no concern for those in the basement.

Therefore, it is consistent with scripture we conclude God sent His Son to save the entire kosmos (Jn. 1:9, 29; 4:42; Rm. 5:10; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:19) whether living or dead (Jn. 5:24-25, 28-29; Heb. 9:27-28; 1 Pt. 4:6) , all born into it since the world began. (Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:24-26; 1 Jn. 2:2; 4:9-10; 8:32).

This is NOT universal salvation, its universal opportunity, that whosoever believes should not perish but have eternal life (John 3:15-17).

So apply what you wrote to the people that are alive now , how does this help them ?

 

[Free]

that the world (2889 κόσμος kosmos) through Him might be saved.


The logic of Christ's descent from "the heavenlies" to "the kosmos", God's love for the entire kosmos His sending His Son to set free human captives and prisoners, requires the human population in the realm of the dead be included in the universal reconciliation accomplished "through the blood of His cross" (Col. 1:16-20) . This conclusion is confirmed by Christ's subsequent preaching to the dead (1 Pet. 3:18-22; 4:5-6).

Excluding the billions who never heard the gospel would shortchange Christ's sacrifice which has infinite value for redemption purposes. In other words, God overpaid if billions of dead are not saved by His sacrifice.

This is a fallacious argument. You are arguing to "Christ's sacrifice which has infinite value" to show that "Excluding the billions who never heard the gospel would shortchange Christ's sacrifice." However, infinite value is, by definition, greater than any finite number. So, using your reasoning, unless there are an infinite number of sinners, Christ's sacrifice will always necessarily be shortchanged.

In John 3:16-18 "world" (2889 κόσμος kosmos) appears four times, contrasting the kosmos from whence God’s Son came with "the kosmos of humanity." That the Kosmos He was sent to save includes the realm of the dead is confirmed by His subsequent decent into the realm of the dead (1 Pet. 3:18-22; Eph. 4:8-10) and the reconciliation of all things through Him (Col. 1:20). This universality is confirmed by the symmetry of 1 Peter 4:5-6 where God is Judge of the living and dead and the gospel is preached to the living and also to the dead, so that both can be judged according to men in the flesh but live according to God. Moreover, as belief or nonbelief in Christ are the only grounds for determining salvation or condemnation (Mark 16:16; John 3:16, 18; 5:24; 6:40; 8:24; 11:25-26; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:12; 10:43; 13:38-39; Rom. 3:22; 4:24-25; 10:9-10; 2 Thes. 1:8-9; Gal. 2:16; 3:22; Eph. 2:8-9; Phil. 2:9; Heb. 11:6; 1 Peter 2:6-8; 1 John 5:10-13; Rev. 21:8) it follows Christ's atoning sacrifice is made available to all humans living and dead. Christ was sent to set free captives and prisoners (Isa. 61:1; Luke 4:18) which describes the condition of the dead perfectly.

To say God loved only the living in the Kosmos and not the dead is like saying firemen sent to a burning house have no concern for those in the basement.

Therefore, it is consistent with scripture we conclude God sent His Son to save the entire kosmos (Jn. 1:9, 29; 4:42; Rm. 5:10; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:19) whether living or dead (Jn. 5:24-25, 28-29; Heb. 9:27-28; 1 Pt. 4:6) , all born into it since the world began. (Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:24-26; 1 Jn. 2:2; 4:9-10; 8:32).

This is NOT universal salvation, its universal opportunity, that whosoever believes should not perish but have eternal life (John 3:15-17).

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. (ESV)

It would seem that your claim isn't biblical. Clearly that doesn't apply to everyone in the OT, but to most. Even if God gives people a second chance after death, the Bible not only doesn't as much as imply that, it actually states that after this life comes the judgement (Heb. 9:27), meaning that we have one chance, which is in this life, to accept Christ.

 

[Alfred Persson]

This is a fallacious argument. You are arguing to "Christ's sacrifice which has infinite value" to show that "Excluding the billions who never heard the gospel would shortchange Christ's sacrifice." However, infinite value is, by definition, greater than any finite number. So, using your reasoning, unless there are an infinite number of sinners, Christ's sacrifice will always necessarily be shortchanged.


Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. (ESV)

It would seem that your claim isn't biblical. Clearly that doesn't apply to everyone in the OT, but to most. Even if God gives people a second chance after death, the Bible not only doesn't as much as imply that, it actually states that after this life comes the judgement (Heb. 9:27), meaning that we have one chance, which is in this life, to accept Christ.

I don't agree. The blood of God has infinite value, but there is a finite number of righteous to save. Getting less than paid for is over paying, not getting all paid for. Evidently, God thought humanity worth the blood of God, rendering your objection moot.

Hebrews 9:37 IN CONTEXT contradicts you. Christ's sacrifice applies to everyone born into this fallen realm SINCE THE FOUNDATON of the world:

26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. (Heb 9:26-28 NAS)

That is why "many" "eagerly await" His second coming so they can rise from hell, having passed the judgment.

 

[Alfred Persson]

So apply what you wrote to the people that are alive now , how does this help them ?

If they repent and believe, then they are saved. If they don't, they are condemned and go to hell.

Ignorance doesn't save anyone. Only one name under the heavens "saves", the Name of Jesus. In the OT sacrifices were still required for sins done in ignorance.

"But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few...(Luk 12:48 NKJ)

Everyone who dies without Christ goes to Hades, even aborted fetus souls. Only the living go to paradise third heaven when they die, not the dead. All in Adam are still dead. Only those in Christ are alive.

But the good news is the Gospel is preached also to the dead so they can live according to God and be raised up in the Day of Christ:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1Pe 4:6 NKJ)


Much better to sidestep hell. Even the absence of torment wouldn't make it as pleasant as third heaven in the presence of the LORD.

 

[hawkman]

But the good news is the Gospel is preached also to the dead so they can live according to God and be raised up in the Day of Christ:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1Pe 4:6 NKJ)

There are no physically dead people on here to read this good news true or not .
There is not any reason I can think of to discuss it .

If they repent and believe, then they are saved. If they don't, they are condemned and go to hell.

This is what Jesus said and is what we should believe .

Everyone who dies without Christ goes to Hades, even aborted fetus souls. Only the living go to paradise third heaven when they die, not the dead. All in Adam are still dead. Only those in Christ are alive.

The God we serve is Just , He is perfectly righteous in his treatment of His creatures and that is all I need to know about what happens to the physically dead .

 

[Free]

The blood of God has infinite value, but there is a finite number of righteous to save.

That is what I said.

Getting less than paid for is over paying, not getting all paid for. Evidently, God thought humanity worth the blood of God, rendering your objection moot.

This is just begging the question though and doesn't actually address my objection, much less make it moot. You're assuming that if the dead don't hear the gospel, then God is "Getting less than paid for." So, your counter-argument still doesn't work.

You previously stated that: "Excluding the billions who never heard the gospel would shortchange Christ's sacrifice which has infinite value for redemption purposes. In other words, God overpaid if billions of dead are not saved by His sacrifice."

I responded: However, infinite value is, by definition, greater than any finite number. So, using your reasoning, unless there are an infinite number of sinners, Christ's sacrifice will always necessarily be shortchanged.

Or, consider that according to your argument, unless every single person who has ever lived and will live is saved, that is, Universal Salvation, then God will be shortchanged.

However, only a finite number of people will be saved and in relation to infinite value, the difference between one person or billions of people is irrelevant. The fact remains that most people will not be saved and the number saved will be the number saved. That is, if the gospel isn't preached to those who are dead, and there is no verse that suggests that it is, then those whom God saves will be all those he "paid for."

Hebrews 9:37 IN CONTEXT contradicts you. Christ's sacrifice applies to everyone born into this fallen realm SINCE THE FOUNDATON of the world:

26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. (Heb 9:26-28 NAS)

You'll have to explain your reasoning here because I don't see how that contradicts anything I stated.

That is why "many" "eagerly await" His second coming so they can rise from hell, having passed the judgment.

Yes, and those are believers who were saved prior to their deaths, since people cannot be saved after death, but it also includes all believers who are alive at his coming.