The 10 Commandments are for EVERYONE.

[theWind]

IF THIS IS ONE OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS, then does this commandment forbid me from looking at Kim Basinger (the wife of another man).

No.

It forbids you from sleeping with her.

What Jesus teaches later is how to avoid breaking that Commandment.

How do we do that?

Don't even look upon a woman lustfully.

Simple.

 

[theWind]

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic (universal) religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

You claimed to be a Bapti-costal.

Pentecostals believe in Oneness - that Christ is the Father.

I see now that you're saying you believe in some amalgamation of Baptist/Pentecostal that includes the unbiblical belief of trinitarianism.

Gotcha.

 

[GodsGrace]

There's nothing new about exactly what the Bible teaches.

Every Covenant is conditional.

Every Covenant is not conditional.
Would you like the names of some?

And what does the bible teach?

Look at Matt. 7:21-23; John 15:1-6. In multiple other places, God speaks of blotting names out of the Book of Life. How do you reconcile that with your current understanding?

What's my current understanding?

The only thing I could say is unconditional in Scripture is the Prophecies that tell us exactly how things will be in the end.

I wouldn't want God to be any other way. It is a sign of His iron integrity that He does what He says He will do and expects us to do something in turn. The notion that Christians don't have to do a single thing to be saved is modern mainstream nonsense. There will be MANY in that day that cry and scream out and beg and plead and argue when they discover that they are rejected by Jesus at the Judgment.

Jesus Himself makes this very clear and He also tells us that it is a very NARROW road that make it into heaven. Very few Christians, relatively, will hit the mark. Very few.

And there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus' own words - not mine.

1. Why will they be rejected at the judgment?
Will it be for a different reason other than
Matthew 7:23
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’


2. What are we expected to do in return for His iron integrity?

 

[theWind]

The demons believe that there is one God, but they know that God sent his son to become a man and die for the sins of men, not to become a demon and die for the sins of demons.

Why did God have to send his son to die for our sins if we are capable of living a sinless life? God would have just said; "I gave you the 10 commandments, you know what to do!"
Why would ANYONE get saved in their youth knowing that one slip in the next 40 years would send you to hell? Perhaps you should back up a bit to

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The blood of Jesus is enough to cover all my sins, past present and future. This is not to say that a believer wantonly sins, like Paul we all press twoard the mark if we truly believe. But God's standards are so high that hatred is like unto murder and a lustful thought like unto adultery. There is none among men who can meet these standards, this is why Jesus Christ had to die, a sacrifice for our sins. It is only the blood that can save us, anything else is a counterfeit.

Yeah, this is all a very commonly-held, but widely taught, misconception about the entire story of the Bible.

Those who believe this are very uneducated in the Bible as a whole.

By the logic of this version of things, God makes huge mistakes. He is fallible and has human-like imperfections. This logic makes God very small and capable of failure.

If this version were true, 1 John 3:4 would not be in the NT because Jesus eliminated any need for it. Countless verses would not exist because Christ took away all relevance for them. In this ridiculous story, God made a huge show of giving the 10 Commandments, terrifying the Israelites with His voice and cosmic storms, making the unmistakable irreversible symbol of writing the Commandments in stone and then saying "Whoopsie!" and sending Christ to reverse things to make up for His overestimation of mankind's capabilities.

Man cannot obey perfectly on his own, that is why the Holy Spirit is sent to us - to motivate and enable us to obey.
Phil. 2:13

What is the point in sending the Holy Spirit if Christ has done away with all sin for the believer?

What is the point in warning us about the devil walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour if we are no longer in any danger of being lost?

What is the point of any of the story of the Bible at all if God created man, the devil corrupted man and then God simply made man immune to the devil and to sin? The Bible is an epic story about an ongoing battle between good and evil, God and the devil.

This misconstrued version doesn't make a lick of sense and it is actually a very dangerous and devastating lie that puts all Christians in danger of hellfire. We are to guard our hearts, obey God's Commands, fight against evil and most of all endure to the very end.

Where is the endurance in your silly version of things? Where is the danger, where is the enemy? Where is the battle?

Your version rewrites the Bible and eliminates the majority of plot and characters.

Absolute and utter nonsense.

 

[Tenchi]

Contrary to popular false teachings, the 10 Commandments were given by God to any and all who would ever come to love Him and obey His Commandments.

Obedience to the Commandments brings one into the very Covenant that God made with mankind on Mt. Sinai.
Deut. 28:9

This Covenant has been done away with, replaced by a "new and living way" consecrated through the body of Christ, that has made him the new "high priest" over the house of God (Hebrews 10:19-21). No New Covenant believer is under the Law, obliged to fulfill it perfectly in order to connect with God (Galatians 3:1-3; Romans 3:20-24).

Jesus declares that it is the keeping of the Commandments that is the prerequisite for receiving the Holy Spirit of God.
John 14:21

No, what Jesus pointed out in this verse is that a love for God will manifest in obedience to His commands. He did NOT say obedience to God's commands was the means of obtaining the Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit is obtained solely by faith in Christ as one's Savior and Lord. (Romans 10:9-10; Revelations 3:20; John 3:16)

The Psalms are chock full of proof that the Commandments were never intended to be done away with and are the foundation of Truth and Righteousness.
Psalm 111:7-8

Christ is the foundation of righteousness for the New Covenant believer.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Romans 3:21-22 (NASB)
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Romans 10:3-4 (NASB)
3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Philippians 1:9-11 (NASB)
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,
10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

All the way through the Bible, and arriving at Revelation, we see the Commandments are integral to a sound Christian Faith and are viewed by God as paramount for a follower of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12

Holiness is the by-product of fellowship with God, not the goal of fellowship with Him. God is Himself the point of the Christian life. To make morality the chief aim of the faith is to embrace moralism which, as the Pharisees well-demonstrated, inevitably leads away from God into hypocrisy.

See: 1 Corinthians 1:9
2 Corinthians 13:14
1 John 1:3

 

[jaybo]

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic (universal) religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

Are these your words, or did you cut-and-paste? If so, you should supply the source.

 

[theWind]

1. Why will they be rejected at the judgment?
Will it be for a different reason other than
Matthew 7:23
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

And Lawlessness is the breaking of the 10 Commandments.

What are we expected to do in return for His iron integrity?

Obey.

 

[theWind]

You are quite correct Wind, my mistake sir, thanks for correcting me on it. My failure to proofread and to think about what you said Wind. Jesus' death did end the law, but technically the new covenant did not go into force until the outpouring of the holy spirit. God also kept the Law covenant in force till the end of the week Dan 9:27, and with Pauls admonition found at Col 2:14-17 we can assume that most were no longer observing it.

That might have been plausible if not for Acts 21:24.

Paul was a "keeper of the Law" long after Christ died and long after Pentecost.

As far as I know no faith that claims to be Christian today observes it, at least in actuality. Everyone I know has violated it.

You are correct, no denomination accurately follows the teachings of Scripture and teaches to obey the 10 Commandments. It is a very narrow road of those who are right with God today.

SDA's come close, but I don't believe they are teaching it legitimately anymore as they have embraced modern heresies since their advent in the late 1800's.

Everyone has violated it, but James 3:2 makes the case that we all stumble/slip-up, etc. That is assuming we are striving to obey though. Those who are living in daily habitual sin, breaking the 10 Commandments regularly, are not stumbling as they aren't even attempting to walk upright as Jesus did.

And John tells us that we are to walk just as Jesus did if we profess to be Christians (followers of Christ).
1 John 2:6

The Bible teaches that we are to obey the 10 Commandments. Christ teaches to obey them; He obeyed them and His followers obeyed them for up to 300 years after His death on the Cross.

And True Christians that seek for Truth in their Bibles, with a sincere heart, will find that the 10 Commandments are still valid for any professing Christian today and Revelation tells us who it is that will be allowed into heaven.

"Here is the patience of the Saints: here are they that keep the Commandments of God, and the Faith of Jesus."
Rev. 14:12

"Because thou hast kept the Word of My patience (10 Commandments), I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Rev. 3:10

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman (the True Church), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
Rev. 12:17

"Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
Rev. 22:14-15

 

[theWind]

No New Covenant believer is under the Law, obliged to fulfill it perfectly in order to connect with God (Galatians 3:1-3; Romans 3:20-24).

We are obliged to strive to obey the 10 Commandments and the Spirit of God enables us to do so. Any stumbling in our efforts is covered by James 3:2, but nobody stumbles who is not already attempting to walk upright.

He did NOT say obedience to God's commands was the means of obtaining the Holy Spirit.

Anybody can read those verses for themselves and see clearly what they say.

He that has been made aware of My Commandments, and keeps them, ... I will manifest Myself unto him. ... If a man loves Me, he will keep My (Commandments) ... and We will come to live with him."
John 14:21 & 23

There's no way to deconstruct that passage, with honesty and integrity, and not come away with a clear condition of keeping the Commandments.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is obtained solely by faith in Christ as one's Savior and Lord. (Romans 10:9-10; Revelations 3:20; John 3:16)

Faith is a gift.
1 Cor. 12:9
Eph. 2:8
Phil. 1:29
Jude 1:3

What we do with that gift is entirely up to us. That is what the parables of the invested, or un-invested, money is about. God gives a measure of faith. We are to do certain things to grow, and spread, that faith.

One of the specific things we are to do with that faith is to seek Christ in God's Word and learn and obey. Obedience is done in, and by, faith - just as our works are done by means of faith. Faith without works is a dead faith.

Obedience to the 10 Commandments is a work of faith. No, it is not works salvation as it is the Spirit of Christ that motivates and enables us to do so. Phil. 2:13

Matt. 7:21-23 demonstrates the outcome for those who live a life of professed Christianity but without obedience to God's Law. Jesus tells these poor souls that they are rejected for being workers of iniquity (sin - breaking the Commandments). He also tells them He never knew them. And why did He never know them? Because their lack of obedience to the Commandments never allowed His Spirit to come and live with them.

Christ is the foundation of righteousness for the New Covenant believer.

And what did Christ do in His lifetime to demonstrate righteousness?

He obeyed all of the 10 Commandments. John 15:10

He also taught them all so that there could be no mistake. Matt. 23:1-3

Holiness is the by-product of fellowship with God, not the goal of fellowship with Him. God is Himself the point of the Christian life. To make morality the chief aim of the faith is to embrace moralism which, as the Pharisees well-demonstrated, inevitably leads away from God into hypocrisy.

Holiness is the means by which we fellowship with God. We are told to be holy and perfect as God is perfect. Matt. 5:48

The True Christian is to be always striving for holiness and perfection, ever removing sin and unholiness from their lives; constantly separating oneself further and further from the ways of the fallen and unholy world. It is a constant battle that we are to endure right up to the moment of our death.

As far as the Pharisees go, none of them ever obeyed the Commandments. They taught them yet never obeyed them. They were the epitome of hypocrites as Jesus made scathingly clear in Matt. 23. He told His disciples (the first Christians) to do as they taught, but not as they did. Matt. 23:3

What they taught were the 10 Commandments.

 

[GodsGrace]

And Lawlessness is the breaking of the 10 Commandments.

Obey.

Agreed on no. 2
What about 1....
If I don't rest on Saturday, am I lost forever?

 

[atpollard]

You claimed to be a Bapti-costal.

Pentecostals believe in Oneness - that Christ is the Father.

I see now that you're saying you believe in some amalgamation of Baptist/Pentecostal that includes the unbiblical belief of trinitarianism.

Gotcha.

Pentecostals are a "big tent" (I love puns).

Technically, I guess I would be "Non-Cessationist" Particular Baptist (I see nothing in SCRIPTURE that says God stopped doing anything with the death of anyone).

 

[atpollard]

Are these your words, or did you cut-and-paste? If so, you should supply the source.

Most people can recognize the Athanasian Creed.

Source?
Sure: unknown author (possibly Vincent of Lérins), Gaul (5th Century)

 

[theWind]

If I don't rest on Saturday, am I lost forever?

I'd pray to God to speak to you about it and help you understand clearly.

He desires that we understand what He expects of us.

Maybe you should research what Sabbath-keepers believe about why that day is so special to God and how they believe that specific day allows for an unusual closeness to be achieved with Him.

I say that because it's better to learn about it from multiple sources, not because I'm unwilling to share. I'd like to focus on the 10 Commandments in general in this thread. Surely there will be a thread on the Sabbath soon if there's not multiple already.

 

[Tenchi]

We are obliged to strive to obey the 10 Commandments and the Spirit of God enables us to do so. Any stumbling in our efforts is covered by James 3:2, but nobody stumbles who is not already attempting to walk upright.

We ought to obey God but in manifestation of a heart filled with love for Him, not in order merely to be moral.

Anybody can read those verses for themselves and see clearly what they say.

Well, you're misrepresentation of the verse indicates this isn't so.

He that has been made aware of My Commandments, and keeps them, ... I will manifest Myself unto him. ... If a man loves Me, he will keep My (Commandments) ... and We will come to live with him."
John 14:21

Beware the ellipses! Here's how the verse unredacted reads:

John 14:21 (NASB)
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Verse 23 of the same chapter offers important clarification:

John 14:23 (NASB)
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

In both verses, it is love, not obedience, that is the prerequisite for the Spirit coming to dwell within a person. Obedience is just a by-product, a reflection or manifestation, of one's love for God that exists before, and is distinct from, the obedience to which it gives rise. Again, love - a deep, abiding heart's desire - for God is the key thing.

There's no way to deconstruct that passage, with honesty and integrity, and not come away with a clear condition of keeping the Commandments.

Oh, there's a condition all right, but it isn't the one you've suggested. See above.

One of the specific things we are to do with that faith is to seek Christ in God's Word and learn and obey.

No, we come to know and love Christ and obedience to him happens naturally, as a result. It is knowing and loving him that are the crucial things.

And what did Christ do in His lifetime to demonstrate righteousness?

This is a deflection of my point (and what Scripture plainly states).

Matt. 7:21-23 demonstrates the outcome for those who live a life of professed Christianity but without obedience to God's Law. Jesus tells these poor souls that they are rejected for being workers of iniquity (sin - breaking the Commandments). He also tells them He never knew them. And why did He never know them? Because their lack of obedience to the Commandments never allowed His Spirit to come and live with them.

Nope. If you were going to make a case for your entrance into heaven based on your obedience, on what you did for God, where would you start? With the First and Great Commandment, obviously (Matthew 22:36-38; 1 Corinthians 13:1-3). But this isn't what those before Christ point to. They say nothing whatever about loving God, though it is where obedience to Him, where the will of the Father, begins. And it is because they didn't, because they hadn't obeyed the First and Great Commandment, that they were cast out. Their hell-deserving iniquity was their lack of love for their holy Maker.

Holiness is the means by which we fellowship with God.

It is the doorway to fellowship with God (Hebrews 12:14), but it is not fellowship itself.

The True Christian is to be always striving for holiness and perfection, ever removing sin and unholiness from their lives; constantly separating oneself further and further from the ways of the fallen and unholy world. It is a constant battle that we are to endure right up to the moment of our death.

Oh, goodness. Please read Romans 6:1-18; Romans 8:9-14; Colossians 3:1-3; Galatians 5:24. Your "job" is to receive, remain and reflect, not strive, labor and battle. What a horrible walk with God you must have! Yikes.

As far as the Pharisees go, none of them ever obeyed the Commandments.

Sure they did. It's what they were known for. Yes, they corrupted their obedience with sin, but they did all the external acts of obedience or they wouldn't have been Pharisees.