The 2 Principle Commandments and the 4 possibilities it gives.

[Adullam]

OK let's look a little further into this study!

Here is a parable that makes no sense unless we put our 4D glasses on. It concerns an unjust steward that God ultimately is pleased with.

Who can explain what is going on here!


The Unjust Steward, Luke 16:1-8


Now He was also saying to the disciples, 'There was a certain rich man who had a steward, and this steward was reported to him as squandering his possessions. And he called him and said to him, "What is this I hear about you?
Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward." and the steward said to himself, "What shall I do, since my master is taking the stewardship away from me? I am not strong enough to dig; I am ashamed to beg. I know what I shall do, so that when I am removed from the
stewardship, they will receive me into their homes." And he summoned each one of his master's debtors, and he began saying to the first, "How much more do you owe my master?" And he said, "A hundred measures of oil." And he said to him, "Take your bill, and sit down quickly and write fifty." Then he said to another, "And how much do you owe?" And he said, "A hundred measures of wheat." He said to him, "Take your bill, and write eighty." And his master praised the unrighteous steward because he had acted shrewdly; for the sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind than the sons of light.

Here is a man that was trusted in a place of honour! But that man was not able to function on that level, so he was to be cast out.
The steward, realizing he would have to dig for a living or even beg, set out to make a place for himself among the Master's debtors, thus providing a place for himself.

If we put our 4D glasses on we realize we are looking at a parable of the righteous and the holy once again.

In this case a would-be saint is on the verge of being rejected. Remember that Paul was also worried about this! If a saint is rejected he is thrown to the filthy, which must toil and beg, being a servant of a servant. (see previous posts about the "filthy ones".)

Imagine an officer on a ship being deemed unfit to lead and getting sacked. The ex-officer does not want to go ashore and have to live in the gutter so he makes friends among the crew, giving them easy jobs, and turning a blind eye to their responsibilities. In this way he finds he is welcome and is given a berth among them.

When the Captain finds out that the crew wish to keep him aboard, he is pleased! Here is a man who accepts his lot and feared for his future. He was shrewd enough to make friends among the crew and improve morale there! If the crew is happy to have him then so be it.

So Jesus here is showing a loophole in the very hard requirement of stewardship in the kingdom.

He is saying that if we go easy on others that are NOT saints but righteous (Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc) then we will be received among their number. God will not hound such a one. He is merciful. We make our own beds to lie in!

Does anyone have difficulty with this????:nod

 

[Jennie]

Here is a man that was trusted in a place of honour! But that man was not able to function on that level, so he was to be cast out.
The steward, realizing he would have to dig for a living or even beg, set out to make a place for himself among the Master's debtors, thus providing a place for himself.

If we put our 4D glasses on we realize we are looking at a parable of the righteous and the holy once again.

In this case a would-be saint is on the verge of being rejected. Remember that Paul was also worried about this! If a saint is rejected he is thrown to the filthy, which must toil and beg, being a servant of a servant. (see previous posts about the "filthy ones".)

Imagine an officer on a ship being deemed unfit to lead and getting sacked. The ex-officer does not want to go ashore and have to live in the gutter so he makes friends among the crew, giving them easy jobs, and turning a blind eye to their responsibilities. In this way he finds he is welcome and is given a berth among them.

When the Captain finds out that the crew wish to keep him aboard, he is pleased! Here is a man who accepts his lot and feared for his future. He was shrewd enough to make friends among the crew and improve morale there! If the crew is happy to have him then so be it.

So Jesus here is showing a loophole in the very hard requirement of stewardship in the kingdom.

He is saying that if we go easy on others that are NOT saints but righteous (Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc) then we will be received among their number. God will not hound such a one. He is merciful. We make our own beds to lie in!

Does anyone have difficulty with this????:nod

Oh good grief, I seem to have fallen right back to square one!
I am having problems with those who do not believe Jesus as being righteous!

 

[Larry]

Holiness involves putting on His righteousness....his nature, His heart! So REAL holiness has righteousness built in!

The problem is when men experience God's grace, then go off in their own strength thinking they don't need to be righteous anymore! These are holding the truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (if you get my meaning).

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. --Romans 1:18

These are the proud once-empowered ones who have experienced SOME of God's power and are mighty proud of that!

I warn many of this terrible tendency. I fell into this error myself many years ago! I know of what I speak!

This is excellent. I haven't read the whole thread yet but it is good so far. I wanted to comment on "holding the truth in unrighteousness" God gave me this revelation when I fell back into sin and it caused me to repent. God is so good!

I love Jesus!:adore:

(I am going back to finish the thread now :

don't worry,I'll get tired of using the smilies soon but until then...you HAVE to love me!


*edit*

The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE]'s Sharpened Sword

1 And the word of the L [SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,
3 and say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE]; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
5 that all flesh may know that I the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] have drawn forth my sword out of his sheath: it shall not return any more.

In the new English translation of the Sept(VII) "The righteous and the wicked" is rendered "The transgressor and the unrighteous"

However,I like the Masoretic text better here. It's explains a prophecy given about judgement by a sister on another forum.

One more thing before I go on and finish the thread(forgive my A.D.D)

I notice that when Jesus was judging the wicked he told them "Depart from me...I never knew YOU" It's interesting that knowing him isn't enough...he must KNOW us. The word "know" in the passage is the same as the know in the Sept.(VII) when it says "Adam knew his wife eve and she conceived a son" We must allow the son of man to penetrate our inward parts and conceive something of eternal value...it's kinda uncomfortable for me to understand this because I'm a guy but there it is. He must know us.

back to reading

*third edit* Still love me?...lol

No,really the study is very good. I'm not in perfect agreement with the unjust steward remarks but I don't have a better revelation so I'll just be quiet.
In any case I really love the spirit of fellowship here. It's like you are really fellowshipping with God's people and not debating silly little things.

What do you get when you look at this with them there 4 D glasses?

4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[Sam21]

Because he was showing mercy that would make the men praise his master?

The rich man disposed the steward BECAUSE he was unrighteous, however he admired the man because he acted wisely in order to protect himself. Then the rich man(God) had to admit that the unjust steward actly wisely. Jesus observation was that the sons of the world can be more wise in their generation than the sons of light. Most of us have encountered godless people who show more wisdom than christians.

 

[Adullam]

This is excellent. I haven't read the whole thread yet but it is good so far. I wanted to comment on "holding the truth in unrighteousness" God gave me this revelation when I fell back into sin and it caused me to repent. God is so good!

I love Jesus!:adore:

(I am going back to finish the thread now :

don't worry,I'll get tired of using the smilies soon but until then...you HAVE to love me!


*edit*

The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE]'s Sharpened Sword

1 And the word of the L [SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,
3 and say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE]; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
5 that all flesh may know that I the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] have drawn forth my sword out of his sheath: it shall not return any more.

In the new English translation of the Sept(VII) "The righteous and the wicked" is rendered "The transgressor and the unrighteous"

However,I like the Masoretic text better here. It's explains a prophecy given about judgement by a sister on another forum.

One more thing before I go on and finish the thread(forgive my A.D.D)

I notice that when Jesus was judging the wicked he told them "Depart from me...I never knew YOU" It's interesting that knowing him isn't enough...he must KNOW us. The word "know" in the passage is the same as the know in the Sept.(VII) when it says "Adam knew his wife eve and she conceived a son" We must allow the son of man to penetrate our inward parts and conceive something of eternal value...it's kinda uncomfortable for me to understand this because I'm a guy but there it is. He must know us.

back to reading

*third edit* Still love me?...lol

No,really the study is very good. I'm not in perfect agreement with the unjust steward remarks but I don't have a better revelation so I'll just be quiet.
In any case I really love the spirit of fellowship here. It's like you are really fellowshipping with God's people and not debating silly little things.

What do you get when you look at this with them there 4 D glasses?

4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

First off Larry! Welcome here and welcome to the thread! :waving

As for the translation that seeks to minimize the damage....it is a problem of modern translations to try explaining away the plain, albeit, difficult message that is so often contained in the biblical text.

Tsadik in Hebrew always means righteous.

The bible says what it means. But I feel we have strayed very far from an apostolic understanding of the message of the bible. We try too hard to explain away the difficulties that challenge the temporal attitudes we have inherited from our fathers!

I don't think that the 4 living Creatures have to do with our study, apart from the fact that there are 4 of them. So also are there 4 riders in Revelation! The number 4 seems to be the number of options that are possible. There are 4 main directions! Otherwise I don't know how else this could be understood. Many others have more insight on this!

Maran atha! <><

 

[Adullam]

Oh good grief, I seem to have fallen right back to square one!
I am having problems with those who do not believe Jesus as being righteous!

Remember that the righteous do what is right with what they see with their natural eyes. No religion on earth can make a claim to have the righteous to themselves. Jesus scandalized the Jews by using a Samaritan to teach them about love. But we don't see the scandal!!! It is like using a Muslim as an example today! Do you see how this would scandalize the religious hypocrites? Do we not still have many today?

Religions are all based on righteousness. But only Christians have the truth about God. So only Christians can be truly holy! We are made holy through Christ living in us! No man can be holy of himself. So only Christians have turned to the truth to become vessels of the truth. But you don't have to be a saint to feed somebody who is hungry!

Many Christians as well will be among the righteous. But that is because they do not truly know the Lord in an intimate way. But these will be saved IF they don't judge others. Otherwise they will also be judged!

God is merciful and helps the humble. He only resists the proud and self-important!

Remember that blaphemy against Christ will be forgiven. It is blasphemy against the Spirit that will never be forgiven. This blasphemy can only take place when one is confronted with the Spirit in truth!

So rather than judging other religions, we should seek to follow Christ and judge what is happening in the church. Let God judge those outside at HIS own pleasure. We are NOT to judge others! If we do then we lose any standing with God. We are saved by HIS mercy. That does not make us better than others. I wish all believers to follow this wisdom. At least I wish they would!

 

[Jake]

He is saying that if we go easy on others that are NOT saints but righteous (Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc) then we will be received among their number. God will not hound such a one. He is merciful. We make our own beds to lie in!

Does anyone have difficulty with this????:nod

If we are easy on unbelievers, we will be received be them - is this what you are trying to say?

 

[Adullam]

If we are easy on unbelievers, we will be received be them - is this what you are trying to say?

Yes! Go easy on them....don't judge them...worry about your own walk.

That is UNTIL the Spirit speaks through you! Then speak as the oracle of God!

We must keep our peace until then!

THAT IS wisdom my brother!

Only a fool speaks all his mind on a matter but men of understanding use wisdom. The heart of the wise conceals great treasures!

 

[Larry]

Remember that the righteous do what is right with what they see with their natural eyes. No religion on earth can make a claim to have the righteous to themselves. Jesus scandalized the Jews by using a Samaritan to teach them about love. But we don't see the scandal!!! It is like using a Muslim as an example today! Do you see how this would scandalize the religious hypocrites? Do we not still have many today?

That's good, we should put "Muslim" or "Mormon" in place of Samaritan when teaching on this today. I have often wondered about Jesus's statement that there is no way to the Father but by him. We look at it as a validation for our religion of "asking Jesus into our hearts" But what if it had another meaning? What if he was simply saying "I am the judge,no man shall enter in unless I judge him worthy" That would throw preconceived religious notions out the window. Yes,we should bow very low for God to dwell in us,individually as well as corporately but this position would give a whole new perspective on the judgement seat of Christ. Maybe many will enter in by Jesus but not by our preconceived notions of how this should be done. Just a possibility.

 

[Jake]

Yes! Go easy on them....don't judge them...worry about your own walk.

That is UNTIL the Spirit speaks through you! Then speak as the oracle of God!

We must keep our peace until then!

THAT IS wisdom my brother!

Only a fool speaks all his mind on a matter but men of understanding use wisdom. The heart of the wise conceals great treasures!

Good lesson, thank you brother!

 

[Adullam]

That's good, we should put "Muslim" or "Mormon" in place of Samaritan when teaching on this today. I have often wondered about Jesus's statement that there is no way to the Father but by him. We look at it as a validation for our religion of "asking Jesus into our hearts" But what if it had another meaning? What if he was simply saying "I am the judge,no man shall enter in unless I judge him worthy" That would throw preconceived religious notions out the window. Yes,we should bow very low for God to dwell in us,individually as well as corporately but this position would give a whole new perspective on the judgement seat of Christ. Maybe many will enter in by Jesus but not by our preconceived notions of how this should be done. Just a possibility.

Larry you have a good heart brother! You are onto something there!

If we judge others because we are saved through God's mercy, then we make His mercy for us appear as cruelty to others. No man who does this will live in the kingdom.

It is only Christ who is the truth. WE ARE NOT THE TRUTH. So we wait upon the Lord to speak through us as the Spirit moves us within. THEN we are being ambassadors for Christ. We are still know nothings!

Paul became wise by knowing NOTHING save Christ. This is the true wisdom. We live in fear and trembling in and of ourselves, but we live fearlessly through the power within us that overcomes the world.

 

[Adullam]

Good lesson, thank you brother!

Your heart is true Rockie! :nod

 

[Jennie]

thank you, adullam.
You have helped me very much.

 

[Adullam]

thank you, adullam.
You have helped me very much.

Thank you Jennie! I am encouraged by the heart you show for the truth!

John