The abomination of desolation is now seen.

[LambAndTheDragon]

How to know what the abomination of desolation is:

To understand this desolation which is in plain sight, all we need to do is use simple math logic, but first we must know what the abomination makes desolate.

What does the abomination make desolate? The whole sum of bible prophecy points to the sacrifice of Christ. It is the sacrifice of Christ that is made desolate, empty, and worthless. But by what? This is where simple math logic exposes the abomination that makes the sacrifice of Christ desolate, and it’s in plain sight.

Let’s do the math:

The meaning of the word Gospel = Good news

To the church, good news (Gospel) = most will be lost and not make it.
They will continually site the scripture that says “narrow is the way, straight is the gate, and “few†be there that find it.â€

The church's interpretation of "few find it" is 100% opposite of Matthew 9:37 which states, “The harvest truly is great, but the “workers are few.†Line upon line makes the puzzle clear. Both cannot be true. Either few make it, or the harvest is great. What do you choose? A gospel of mass destruction or a gospel of life? Simple math tells us the few that find the true gospel are the workers. Pray for more workers, Jesus said.

Now for the sum of what the church is really saying when they tell you the false gospel of “most will not make it.â€

What the church is really saying is that what Adam did in the garden is BY FAR more fruitful than what Jesus did at the cross. Do the math. It’s zero faith in the power of Christ disguised as faith in Christ.

"Oh death where is thy sting, oh grave where is thy7 victory," according to church doctrine should read, "Oh death thy sting is great, oh grave thou shalt be filled." Do the math.

Satan isn't walking through the front door blowing a trumpet. He's disguised as one of us.

Christ loses BY FAR over what Adam did according to the mouth of the church and the anomaly is, they make this = good news (gospel). Who would this belief of "most will be lost" be good news to? Satan? According to church doctrine, Satan wins BY FAR, and the sacrifice of Christ is empty which means desolate.

The church’s own doctrine declares the sacrifice of Christ empty, desolate, and worthless.

Do the math. 2+2 always = 4

1 Corinthians 15:22 = True faith in the power of Christ
Romans 5:14-19 = True faith in the power of Christ

The church is preaching absolute zero faith in the power of Christ. To the church, Adam and Satan win BY FAR.

The abomination that makes the sacrifice of Christ desolate; empty, is now seen.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The abomination that makes the sacrifice of Christ desolate; empty, is now seen.

Yes, a False Gospel does permeate all of religion, the Purpose of Christ saving work and it's accomplishments, no more is said to have efficacy in itself, and bring Glory to God, but that man must cause the efficacy, the success of Christ work to save sinners is up to man, his decision or his freewill and ect..This is a great abomination..

 

[Elijah674]

?? I believe that it is the Rev. True Virgin Doctrines of Christ Fold. We see that these ones were to choose.. BETWIXT the Christ that made the Virgin Fold & His Fold!! See Rev. 1:19-20 + *Isa. 5:1-9 complete, and then without Christ in verse 3! And Fullfilled in Matt. 23:38's D-E-S-O-L-A-T-E HOUSE! Rev. 3:9 finds it now the synagogue of satan, once again and a killing machine! [EXECUTION OF CHRIST] and His followers. 666

First off: Acts 3:19 is almost at the last opportunity for Repentance. Most are already past this time. Rev. 17:1-5 ones are about all made up, the Prophesied Shaking has taken place in Laodicea with the 7th church staying put as did old Israel, & the Remnant have already left her Apostasy, as seen in Rev. 12:17. In Rev. 3:10 we see that these ones [only] are kept from 666, & Matt. 24's Great Tribulation verse of ibide. 21... of ['EVER SHALL BE'] comes to view. And Inspiration in Acts 3:19 merits EXTREME MATURE WISDOM! We need to be
%100 in Repentance & being LED of the Holy Spirit today! Rom. 8:14

Matt. 24
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(the above time is FACT! For a witness only. As in Gen. 6:3's repeat. Fatal Decision are required to be made by just a few who have not had any opportunity. UN trial)

[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(Elijah here: Most do not even know what nor where the Holy Place is to be, much less understand! But, Old Israel was to be the Holy Place for Christ 'Isa. 5:3' as was Laodicea for the last church True Fold. So we see Rev. 3:9 in completion of these two Virgin folds having a 'new leader' which is satan. And again, prophecy has told us this, and it is already found in the Rev. 17:1-5 documentation as these ones being.. long gone past their time period.

Let me just give the verse for this virgin apostasy. Matt. 23:38 found the entrance of satan taking over old Israel, when Christ was put OUT & Executed! 70 AD was way down the road of the finished slaughter! Matt. 25 has the Midnight Cry (falling away! Go ye OUT!) & 70 AD has the Loud Cry Slaughter to a Christless fold of 39 years past Christ's rejection & crucifixion.

[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(OK: this is NO time to still be found in Titus 3:9-11's Vain waste of time! One needs to be making provisions the best that they can, and then leave the rest to God as He requires. Rev. 18:4 is Emergency Time!)

[17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day:

(all preparation needs to be made! There had been a little God Required DELAY for this found in Old Israel final 70 AD destruction. And this is NO TIME to violate Rom. 8:14's verse!)

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
(the above two verses find the END, + we see that the days shall be shortened! Both both Christ & Paul document this Inspiration. See Gen. 41:32 with Eccl. 3:15. In Daniel's Inspiration of the 'armies camped around Jerusalem'?? we now find most of today confused on this, as the twofold verse Tel's us of the End Time application)

[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christ's, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25] Behold, I have told you before.
[26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

(Yet, as the pretribs + miracle are taught & done, only the 'few' will do as Christ Commands! Think of what it will be like for some who are physically handicapped knowing that real miracles are being done, yet, still knowing that they are not teaching the truth???? But this will be as prophesied! Kind of like Lot's wife??)

[27] For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(Fact!)
[28] For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

--- Elijah

 

[sdktlk]

How to know what the abomination of desolation is:

To understand this desolation which is in plain sight, all we need to do is use simple math logic, but first we must know what the abomination makes desolate.

What does the abomination make desolate? The whole sum of bible prophecy points to the sacrifice of Christ. It is the sacrifice of Christ that is made desolate, empty, and worthless. But by what? This is where simple math logic exposes the abomination that makes the sacrifice of Christ desolate, and it’s in plain sight.

Let’s do the math:

The meaning of the word Gospel = Good news

To the church, good news (Gospel) = most will be lost and not make it.
They will continually site the scripture that says “narrow is the way, straight is the gate, and “few†be there that find it.â€

The church's interpretation of "few find it" is 100% opposite of Matthew 9:37 which states, “The harvest truly is great, but the “workers are few.†Line upon line makes the puzzle clear. Both cannot be true. Either few make it, or the harvest is great. What do you choose? A gospel of mass destruction or a gospel of life? Simple math tells us the few that find the true gospel are the workers. Pray for more workers, Jesus said.

Now for the sum of what the church is really saying when they tell you the false gospel of “most will not make it.â€

What the church is really saying is that what Adam did in the garden is BY FAR more fruitful than what Jesus did at the cross. Do the math. It’s zero faith in the power of Christ disguised as faith in Christ.

"Oh death where is thy sting, oh grave where is thy7 victory," according to church doctrine should read, "Oh death thy sting is great, oh grave thou shalt be filled." Do the math.

Satan isn't walking through the front door blowing a trumpet. He's disguised as one of us.

Christ loses BY FAR over what Adam did according to the mouth of the church and the anomaly is, they make this = good news (gospel). Who would this belief of "most will be lost" be good news to? Satan? According to church doctrine, Satan wins BY FAR, and the sacrifice of Christ is empty which means desolate.

The church’s own doctrine declares the sacrifice of Christ empty, desolate, and worthless.

Do the math. 2+2 always = 4

1 Corinthians 15:22 = True faith in the power of Christ
Romans 5:14-19 = True faith in the power of Christ

The church is preaching absolute zero faith in the power of Christ. To the church, Adam and Satan win BY FAR.

The abomination that makes the sacrifice of Christ desolate; empty, is now seen.

So true brother. The "strait gate" is instruction for believers not so that the lost can be saved.

The Abomination of Desolation A.K.A. Babylon the Great has shut up the "gate" and is and has been preaching "another Jesus" for centuries. They will talk about salvation, that is the Gospel of Christ, but will not dare touch the Cross of Christ.

In the words of the Apostle Paul, "...For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ..." (Php 3:18) The Harlot and her daughters are indeed in the image of Adam, "of the earth, earthy." (1Cor 15:47)

 

[Stormcrow]

How to know what the abomination of desolation is:

To understand this desolation which is in plain sight, all we need to do is use simple math logic, but first we must know what the abomination makes desolate.

The abomination that makes the sacrifice of Christ desolate; empty, is now seen.

The phrase "abomination of desolation" in Matthew 24 is actually defined for us in its parallel passage found in Luke 21. Here are the two verses:

"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 (NASB)

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Luke 21:20 (NASB)

The "abomination of desolation" (literally, the "hated thing which causes destruction") was the four legions of Rome that surrounded and besieged Jerusalem in 66-67 AD, a siege that lasted three and a half years, culminating in its reduction to rubble in 70 AD.

Luke describes Christ's prophecy of this event in greater detail than Matthew:

41 When He [Jesus] approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43 "For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44 and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." Luke 19:41-44 (NASB)

The hated legions of Rome surrounding, besieging, and ultimately destroying Jerusalem is what is meant by the "abomination of desolation."

For what it's worth.

 

[savedbygrace57]

He did bring out one good point however, though he may not have quite understood it, but that is, the saving sacrifice of Christ for the saving of His People, this message has been all but destroyed in the churches today, for its not the same message of the cross the apostles preached, and of its saving efficacy and who it was for. Now, I am not sure, but the person who began this thread seemed to be leaning to the univesalism side, as to imply everyone in the world without exception should be saved by Christ sacrifice, for that would be error . Christ sacrifice was for a specific Chosen People Matt 1:


21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

 

[Alabaster]

Thanks, Theophilus. It's a good thing to keep establishing our standard---God's holy word.

 

[sdktlk]

The phrase "abomination of desolation" in Matthew 24 is actually defined for us in its parallel passage found in Luke 21. Here are the two verses:

"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 (NASB)

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Luke 21:20 (NASB)

The "abomination of desolation" (literally, the "hated thing which causes destruction") was the four legions of Rome that surrounded and besieged Jerusalem in 66-67 AD, a siege that lasted three and a half years, culminating in its reduction to rubble in 70 AD.

Luke describes Christ's prophecy of this event in greater detail than Matthew:

41 When He [Jesus] approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43 "For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44 and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." Luke 19:41-44 (NASB)

The hated legions of Rome surrounding, besieging, and ultimately destroying Jerusalem is what is meant by the "abomination of desolation."

For what it's worth.

Hate to be a sticky wicket, but those two Scriptures are not referring to the same thing. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 (NASB)

In 70 A.D., because of the fact the the Lord Jesus had caused sacrifice and oblation to cease, there was no place, with respect to a natural temple, which the Lord would call "HOLY" Therefore, this cannot be referring to the Romans destruction of the temple. Peace.

 

[Stormcrow]

Hate to be a sticky wicket, but those two Scriptures are not referring to the same thing. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 (NASB)

In 70 A.D., because of the fact the the Lord Jesus had caused sacrifice and oblation to cease, there was no place, with respect to a natural temple, which the Lord would call "HOLY" Therefore, this cannot be referring to the Romans destruction of the temple. Peace.

Read the full context of both passages. They are referring to the same event.

 

[Alabaster]

Hate to be a sticky wicket, but those two Scriptures are not referring to the same thing. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 (NASB)

In 70 A.D., because of the fact the the Lord Jesus had caused sacrifice and oblation to cease, there was no place, with respect to a natural temple, which the Lord would call "HOLY" Therefore, this cannot be referring to the Romans destruction of the temple. Peace.

This is correct.

 

[Lehigh3]

Hate to be a sticky wicket, but those two Scriptures are not referring to the same thing. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 (NASB)

In 70 A.D., because of the fact the the Lord Jesus had caused sacrifice and oblation to cease, there was no place, with respect to a natural temple, which the Lord would call "HOLY" Therefore, this cannot be referring to the Romans destruction of the temple. Peace.

I Disagree. Stormcrow is correct. They are one & the same event. The "holy" people & the "holy city" (Dan.9) were called "holy" until the seventy-sevens were finished. (AD70)
Mt.24:15 Jesus said the abomination of desolation spoken by the prophet Daniel.

After Antiochus’ abomination of desolation, the Temple was cleansed (Dan.8:11-14). In contrast, after Titus’ abomination of desolation, the Temple was destroyed (Dan. 9:26-27); this was the time of the shattering of the Jewish nation(Dan.12:7-11).

 

[Sam21]

This is an interesting subject, it is for sure that the abomination of the Jewish race in rejecting Christ was what caused their desolation. Most tend to think that it is the defilement of a Jewish Temple rather than the destruction of the temple. Paul did mention the man of sin going into a Temple and commiting defilement.

 

[Elijah674]

The phrase "abomination of desolation" in Matthew 24 is actually defined for us in its parallel passage found in Luke 21. Here are the two verses:

"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 (NASB)

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Luke 21:20 (NASB)

The "abomination of desolation" (literally, the "hated thing which causes destruction") was the four legions of Rome that surrounded and besieged Jerusalem in 66-67 AD, a siege that lasted three and a half years, culminating in its reduction to rubble in 70 AD.

Luke describes Christ's prophecy of this event in greater detail than Matthew:

41 When He [Jesus] approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43 "For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44 and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." Luke 19:41-44 (NASB)

The hated legions of Rome surrounding, besieging, and ultimately destroying Jerusalem is what is meant by the "abomination of desolation."

For what it's worth.

I doubt that any can 'see' this. But your Apostate Israel of old were not Christian in any sense of the word in 70 AD's Slaughter! (Got that??) The Midnight Cry was old Israels last chance as a Virgin Candlestick! (Rev. 2:5) If you will read slowly & prayerfully Isa. 5 which was (in past/tense) Christ's ontime Vinyard & HOUSE..verse 7, you CANNOT MISS verse 3's CHOICE!! [Betwixt Me & My Vineyard]. It was this choice that HAD THEIR ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION! Matt. 23:38. (not 70 AD 39 years future)

They EXECUTED the Christ of His Church in the 'midst of the week', & THEY BECAME DESOLATE of the ONLY CHRIST/GOD that made His Church a Church! And who took over as their killing machine of Acts? Rev. 3:9 tel's the UNIVERSE that it became the Synagogue of satan. Your 70AD slaughter was 39 years future! And Christians, or the House of God they NO LONGER WERE! They even documented that we have [NO KING BUT CEASAR!] (church + State!)

So how more desolate could a profession be than to be Christless?????

SO? 'me' thinks that you need to go back to the drawing board with Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15's documentation!;)

And if you want more verification?? Read the Matt. 25's Parable with its verse 10's CLOSED DOOR (think Noah's Ark door!) & then the explanation in Matt. 10:5-6 on. Take note of verse 15 for this ex/house and their judgement!

--Elijah

 

[Stormcrow]

--Elijah

Sorry, man. I tried rereading your post in response to mine several times over and don't understand how it refutes or affirms mine in any way.

Either I'm not that smart, or you're not communicating your ideas very clearly at all. Thanks anyway, though.

 

[Stormcrow]

The following are two well-known passages. The first is taken from the NASB, which is translated from the Masoretic Hebrew, translated between the 7th and 10th centuries AD. Here's how it reads:

24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." Daniel 9:24-27 (NASB)
​

Pay close attention to verse 26:

"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

Now, here is the same passage from the Septuagint version, translated between the 4th and 2nd centuries BC.:

Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy.

And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.

And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation. Daniel 9:24-27 (LXX)
​

One of the most important differences to note is that the priests who translated the Septuagint did so while still looking forward to the appearance of Christ, and so used the kind of messianic language one would expect from a messianic prophecy. The Masoretes - translating well after Christ's earthly ministry - seemed to downplay messianic language in the prophecy.

Now, look at verse 26 from both (NASB first):

"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. (NASB)

And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations. (LXX)
​

Christ is the subject of both passages, but His name is practically absent in the NASB version, while the "he" in the Septuagint version clearly refers to Christ in the preceding verse!

If you replace the pronoun "he" with Christ, here is how the LXX version reads:

and [Christ] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

Now, go back and read Matthew 23 and 24, Luke 19 and 21, and Revelation 5 and 18, and see if these don't paint a clearer picture of Daniel 9:24-27 and how it fits into prophecy.

The "abomination of desolation" is not some future anti-Christ. The A/D was the prince (Titus) and the legions of Rome that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD, precisely as Christ predicted. And it was He alone who opened the seals (Rev. 5) and executed judgment upon Jerusalem.

One more thing:

Matthew (Levi) was a Jew writing to Jews about those things which Jews would most readily understand about their own history ("Let the reader understand.")

Luke was not even a disciple of Christ but was rather converted by and a disciple of the Apostle Paul.

So why is this important to know when looking at the seeming discrepancy between Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20?

Matthew was on the Mount of Olives when Jesus spoke those words, and so he and the people for whom his gospel was written - namely the Jews - understood EXACTLY what Jesus meant.

Luke was not there and - being a gentile - probably had no clue as to what Matthew meant. Luke, therefore, would've had to have it EXPLAINED to him what Christ's words regarding the "abomination of desolation" meant. He probably received this explanation directly from Paul, who - being a Pharisee that studied under the great Gamaliel - would have known EXACTLY what "abomination of desolation" meant.

Therefore, these writers are not describing two different events, but one event in two different ways: Matthew in language that Jews would understand and Luke in language for the rest of us! (Think of Luke's account as "Eschatology for Dummies.")

It really doesn't get any simpler than that. Really.

 

[Elijah674]

--Elijah

Sorry, man. I tried rereading your post in response to mine several times over and don't understand how it refutes or affirms mine in any way.

Either I'm not that smart, or you're not communicating your ideas very clearly at all. Thanks anyway, though.

Hi, The Abomination of DESOLATION. Christ HAD A House (Vineyard, Church, Sanctuary, Fold, Candlestick.. all are the same. Verses?? OK: Matt. 23:38 is DESOLATE! Isa. 5 is His Vinyard & verse 7 is called HIS HOUSE. Rev. 1 & 2 finds VIRGIN CHURCH's.. see Rev. 2:5 for what the ABOMINATION THREAT IS ALL ABOUT.) The DESOLATE Church is a Christless one! When it REJECTED CHRIST it then at that point became DESOLATE! And satan took over Christ's place as their leader. (see Rev. 3:9 again)

OK: Old Israel was THAT HOUSE OF GOD. Isa. 5 'READ IT!' Verses 1-8 first finds what you post as 39 years in the future. That is NOT the abomination that made old Israel Desolate! (nor the Rev. 17:1-5 ones The Abomination of the earth)

Isa. 5 shows exactly what took place to make Christ's Vineyard DESOLATE! When this was done, [THIS WAS THE ABOMINATION THAT MADE HIS VINEYARD DESOLATE!] 'Judge BETWIXT ME & MY VINEYARD' In John 12:42-43 we see that [MANY BELIEVED OF Christ], yet there choice made them Eternally DESOLATE OF HIM. That MATURE CHOICE was the Midnight Cry of Matt. 25 that FINALIZED (SEALED Their Fate! CLOSED DOOR of Matt. 25:10) Their 'Abomination [OF] Desolation'

--Elijah

PS: And Dan. 9:27?? 'even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate'
Read it again & perhaps you can see his pen lumping together both the Midnight Cry & the 70 AD Loud Cry slaughter? (It is there!)

First they became Desolate of CHRIST and that made them as are the Rev. 17:1-5 church's are prophesied. From verse 8 on of Isa, 5 finds that they all are to be slaughtered by God if not repentful. Yet, in 70AD 39 years in the future God still has a few of His very OWN there in 'sincere ignorance' that He call out! Rev. 18:4 is both repeated prophecies to leave the ABOMINAL CHURCH'S or suffer with their last fate. (AS 'PARTAKERS' of her sin's) And remember that in old Israel that we see the Matt. 23:15 verse that this fold was bringing converts from the whole world & these were to be given a chance to flee the slaughter of 70 AD in more maturity. But the Church (call it what ever?) was a DONE DEAL IN THE MIDST OF THE 7 years period of Christ's REJECTION!

 

[Stormcrow]

Hi, The Abomination of DESOLATION. Christ HAD A House (Vineyard, Church, Sanctuary, Fold, Candlestick.. all are the same. Verses?? OK: Matt. 23:38 is DESOLATE! Isa. 5 is His Vinyard & verse 7 is called HIS HOUSE. Rev. 1 & 2 finds VIRGIN CHURCH's.. see Rev. 2:5 for what the ABOMINATION THREAT IS ALL ABOUT.) The DESOLATE Church is a Christless one! When it REJECTED CHRIST it then at that point became DESOLATE! And satan took over Christ's place as their leader. (see Rev. 3:9 again)

Nope. Sorry. Still not seeing the connection you're trying to make here.

The only thing I can draw from what you've written now (in 2 posts) is that you believe that Christ was speaking about His church and not Jerusalem or the Temple vis a vis this sentence:

"The DESOLATE Church is a Christless one!"

Since this appears to be the only sentence from which I can make any sense, let's look at it.

First, Christ was clearly speaking about the Temple and Jerusalem in Matthew 23 and 24 (as He was in Luke 19 and 21).

Second, in Matthew 21 and 22, when Christ is seen confronting the Scribes and Pharisees, He speaks to them in parables all of which signify that the Kingdom of God is going to be taken away from them. So again, He is talking to the religious leaders (Jews) of His time and prophesying about things that would happen - as fulfilled - in 70 AD.

Nothing regarding the "abomination of desolation" has anything to do with the Christian church. That's merely your interpretation of the passages you've strung together, but it's not what these passages are either about in prophesy or history.

Finally, you keep stressing the desolation part of the prepositional phrase "abomination of desolation", but you do realize that "of desolation" - when used in a sentence - cannot be the subject of the sentence, right? Abomination would be the subject. Desolation merely describes the nature, character, and work of the abomination. What does the abomination do? The abomination makes desolate.

Taking your view literally, what is the abomination (the "hated thing") which causes "ruin?" Is it Christ? Is it the Jews? What is the abomination in your view of these passages?

 

[Hitch]

Yup.

 

[sdktlk]

The following are two well-known passages. The first is taken from the NASB, which is translated from the Masoretic Hebrew, translated between the 7th and 10th centuries AD. Here's how it reads:

24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." Daniel 9:24-27 (NASB)
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Pay close attention to verse 26:

"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

Now, here is the same passage from the Septuagint version, translated between the 4th and 2nd centuries BC.:

Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy.

And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.

And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation. Daniel 9:24-27 (LXX)
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One of the most important differences to note is that the priests who translated the Septuagint did so while still looking forward to the appearance of Christ, and so used the kind of messianic language one would expect from a messianic prophecy. The Masoretes - translating well after Christ's earthly ministry - seemed to downplay messianic language in the prophecy.

Now, look at verse 26 from both (NASB first):

"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. (NASB)

And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations. (LXX)
​

Christ is the subject of both passages, but His name is practically absent in the NASB version, while the "he" in the Septuagint version clearly refers to Christ in the preceding verse!

If you replace the pronoun "he" with Christ, here is how the LXX version reads:

and [Christ] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

Now, go back and read Matthew 23 and 24, Luke 19 and 21, and Revelation 5 and 18, and see if these don't paint a clearer picture of Daniel 9:24-27 and how it fits into prophecy.

The "abomination of desolation" is not some future anti-Christ. The A/D was the prince (Titus) and the legions of Rome that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD, precisely as Christ predicted. And it was He alone who opened the seals (Rev. 5) and executed judgment upon Jerusalem.

One more thing:

Matthew (Levi) was a Jew writing to Jews about those things which Jews would most readily understand about their own history ("Let the reader understand.")

Luke was not even a disciple of Christ but was rather converted by and a disciple of the Apostle Paul.

So why is this important to know when looking at the seeming discrepancy between Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20?

Matthew was on the Mount of Olives when Jesus spoke those words, and so he and the people for whom his gospel was written - namely the Jews - understood EXACTLY what Jesus meant.

Luke was not there and - being a gentile - probably had no clue as to what Matthew meant. Luke, therefore, would've had to have it EXPLAINED to him what Christ's words regarding the "abomination of desolation" meant. He probably received this explanation directly from Paul, who - being a Pharisee that studied under the great Gamaliel - would have known EXACTLY what "abomination of desolation" meant.

Therefore, these writers are not describing two different events, but one event in two different ways: Matthew in language that Jews would understand and Luke in language for the rest of us! (Think of Luke's account as "Eschatology for Dummies.")

It really doesn't get any simpler than that. Really.

First: I would be very careful when relying upon the translated Septuagint for we see it written, "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away." (2Cor 3:14-16) Therefore the Lord, by the writing of Paul has let us know that unless they turn to Christ they cannot see what is written.

Second: If we believe, which we do, that the Scriptures came forth by the Hand of God (holy men of God wrote as they were led of the Spirit) rather than from the mind of man, then it would not seem wise to say that what Luke wrote was from his perspective.

In Luke 21, the Lord Jesus in His discourse with the disciples, spoke of the fact that there would be nation rising against nation, wars famines, earthquakes, etc.
Then Jesus said, "But before all these..." (Luk 21:12) and began to discuss some particular things that would happen to the ones He was speaking to and some certain things that they should watch out for. The coming destruction of Jerusalem being one of those things. And He called this destruction, "...the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luk 21:22)

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13 when the Lord references the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel the prophet He spoke of that time as a period of, "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." (Mat 24:21) And in Mark 13:19 the Lord Jesus said, "...in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be."

Vengeance - Greek, ekdikēsis, From G1556; vindication, retribution: - (a-, re-) venge (-ance), punishment.

Tribulation and affliction are both the same word - Greek, thlipsis, From G2346; pressure (literally or figuratively): - afflicted, (-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.

The punishment spoken of in Luke IS NOT the same thing as the pressure, affliction, anguish, burden, persecution, tribulation, trouble spoken of in Matthew and Mark.

 

[Hitch]

The punishment spoken of in Luke IS NOT the same thing as the pressure, affliction, anguish, burden, persecution, tribulation, trouble spoken of in Matthew and Mark.

Then it should be easy to explain , from the text, why Luke included and entirely different scene while he also avoided the destruction common to Mark and Matt.

Do you see Mark and/or Matt speaking of the same thing Luke sees anywhere?