[_ Old Earth _] The beginning of life.

[Blue-Lightning]

A man of faith talking about evidence? Interesting.

I like to be. ;)

You are aware, of course, that there is absolutely no evidence for you entire belief system, which hinges on a talking snake.

Oh, I wouldn't go that far. You've heard me say over and over that the universe necessitates a creator, and I've discussed that with many scientists and I have yet to have it refuted. And as far as taking that theism farther and accepting the Bible, and more importantly Jesus, I wish I could give you some of my life experiences, but I can't. Just this week, I'm preparing a large drama for my church and already I have had some pretty amazing things happen - not to mention having one of the strangest weeks of my life.

Anywho, I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I can't give you the evidence. I sincerely wish I could. I suppose you'll have to find God the same way I did. I hope one day you'll understand.

BL

 

[Wertbag]

I can't give you the evidence. I sincerely wish I could. I suppose you'll have to find God the same way I did. I hope one day you'll understand.

Why doesn't God reveal himself to everyone? He wants a relationship with everyone, he has the power to convince everyone, but he leaves us with this confusion. It would seem so simple for Him to tell us which church is correct, which versions of the Bible to study and to finally banish all of the false religions.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Why doesn't God reveal himself to everyone? He wants a relationship with everyone, he has the power to convince everyone, but he leaves us with this confusion

There's really not much confusion... people make up their own minds about whether or not they are going to accept God. The people who want to find God seek Him and find Him. The people who don't want there to be a God do not seek for Him. There are some who are confused in that they believe evidence disproves God, but if they truly want answers, the will quickly discover this to be untrue. You see, God is not the author of confusion.

It would seem so simple for Him to tell us which church is correct, which versions of the Bible to study and to finally banish all of the false religions.

God will return and no one will be with excuse. At that point, all false beliefs will be banished.

But now we're getting into a religious discussion and moving away from the scientific debate we were having. Why don't we try to stay on topic...

BL

 

[Guest]

So, intelligence is based on religious belief? Hahaha after a statement like that, one would be inclined to believe the converse...

:D Actually,you are not able to ever come to a full understanding
of anything even though you study when you are lost.
If you think you are smart without God,thats because you are wise
only in your own eyes.

 

[keebs]

If you think you are smart without God,thats because you are wise
only in your own eyes.

Tell that to Einstein, eh?

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Probably need to discern between the words 'smart' and 'wise.' Although as I recall, Einstein was sort of a mixed bag concerning God... probably would have helped if he knew that his theory on the speed of light would give way to the Varying Speed of Light theory in about 2001. Then again, who knows.

Later,

BL

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Probably need to discern between the words 'smart' and 'wise.' Although as I recall, Einstein was sort of a mixed bag concerning God... probably would have helped if he knew that his theory on the speed of light would give way to the Varying Speed of Light theory in about 2001. Then again, who knows.

Later,

BL

General Relativity is not about the speed of light and is not threatened by the Varying speed of light theory. The fact that VSL theory is made to bolster the Big Bang theory and only applies to conditions that could only be had during the first few micronanoseconds of the universe's existence, according to said BBT, it's really pointless for you to bring this up.

Bluelightning, it's probably best not to attempt to support blueeyeliner's ad homenims.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

General Relativity is not about the speed of light and is not threatened by the Varying speed of light theory.

Whoop, you must have responded right after I typed the post - when I re-read the original post I editted it because I had had a brain hiccup and put down theory of relativity instead of theory of the speed of light.

The fact that VSL theory is made to bolster the Big Bang theory and only applies to conditions that could only be had during the first few micronanoseconds of the universe's existence, according to said BBT, it's really pointless for you to bring this up.

I don't know that the theory of VSL was made to bolster the BBT... I think it was more or less created as Dr. Magueijo pondered the calculations of Einstein's original calculations. And the acceptance of the VSL theory has wide repurussions... from a new understanding of the potential effects of high-speed space travel to reality of what a black hole is.

As for how it is relevant, I simply brought it up as a dent in Einstein's "my calculations are correct" view which ultimately caused him to turn away from the idea of a creator. Unfortunately, it seems that even Einstein didn't have all the pieces put together in his limited access to information. And just as Einstein's theories will be revised, I suspect VSL will also be revised and fine-tuned.

Bluelightning, it's probably best not to attempt to support blueeyeliner's ad homenims.

I'm just making casual observations... I like Blueeyeliner and I like keebs. They're both often incorrect, as are you and I, in that they don't have all the pieces to the proverbial pie. We like to think we do, but as Will Rogers would say, "Different people are ignorant in different ways."

Later,

BL

 

[Highlander]

What a fun read. You folks are really right up there with your science, I could follow most of it, but then you lost me in the fine details. Quite a great read though.

It was also fun to watch BB resort to "wait until your dad gets home" when he couldn't defend his positon and then, Blueyliner came in, right on que, to add her considerable elucidation to the issue.

All in all, very enlightening and entertaining, thank you.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Glad you're enjoying it! :smt023

BL

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

I don't know that the theory of VSL was made to bolster the BBT... I think it was more or less created as Dr. Magueijo pondered the calculations of Einstein's original calculations. And the acceptance of the VSL theory has wide repurussions... from a new understanding of the potential effects of high-speed space travel to reality of what a black hole is.

I've read the paper he published, it really only applies to extreme spatial density. Look it up on arxiv.org.

 

[Asimov]

I don't know that the theory of VSL was made to bolster the BBT... I think it was more or less created as Dr. Magueijo pondered the calculations of Einstein's original calculations. And the acceptance of the VSL theory has wide repurussions... from a new understanding of the potential effects of high-speed space travel to reality of what a black hole is.

I read his book (great book btw) about VSL. He formulated it in an effort to try and unify some of the problems associated with the Big Bang. He still accepts the Big Bang.

As for how it is relevant, I simply brought it up as a dent in Einstein's "my calculations are correct" view which ultimately caused him to turn away from the idea of a creator. Unfortunately, it seems that even Einstein didn't have all the pieces put together in his limited access to information. And just as Einstein's theories will be revised, I suspect VSL will also be revised and fine-tuned.

Yes, just as all theories are revised as new knowledge is gained. At the publishing of his book, Magueijo stated that he hopes he finds evidence of a varying speed of light. So I assume that so far, he has found none.

 

[Highlander]

[quote="Blue-Lightning":96256]I don't know that the theory of VSL was made to bolster the BBT... I think it was more or less created as Dr. Magueijo pondered the calculations of Einstein's original calculations. And the acceptance of the VSL theory has wide repurussions... from a new understanding of the potential effects of high-speed space travel to reality of what a black hole is.

I read his book (great book btw) about VSL. He formulated it in an effort to try and unify some of the problems associated with the Big Bang. He still accepts the Big Bang.

As for how it is relevant, I simply brought it up as a dent in Einstein's "my calculations are correct" view which ultimately caused him to turn away from the idea of a creator. Unfortunately, it seems that even Einstein didn't have all the pieces put together in his limited access to information. And just as Einstein's theories will be revised, I suspect VSL will also be revised and fine-tuned.

Yes, just as all theories are revised as new knowledge is gained. At the publishing of his book, Magueijo stated that he hopes he finds evidence of a varying speed of light. So I assume that so far, he has found none.[/quote:96256]

So, if evidence of vary speed of light is found, will that change our conception of time? Sorry if this is a 101 kind of question, I hadn't heard of this VSL theory before.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

So, if evidence of vary speed of light is found, will that change our conception of time? Sorry if this is a 101 kind of question, I hadn't heard of this VSL theory before.

Yes. I'll give you one example, because it is pretty complex, and sometimes even over my head a bit. We'll use the blackholes for our example - what the VSL theory would mean is that a blackhole is not really a hole at all, it is instead like a "cold time" zone. What that means is that just like molecules getting colder and simulatenously (or interchangably) moving slower, so time reaches points in the universe where it becomes "cold" or slower. So what VSL would indicate is that as you travel closer and closer towards a black hole, time slows down so that nothing could actually into a black hole, it would just simply freeze infinitely at its point.

And don't feel bad about not having heard of the VSL theory before - I am impressed that the others here know of it.

BTW, if you guys would like to get back on the main topic, I was enjoying that very much. Although I don't mind talking about VSL if that's where we want to go with this discussion...

BL

 

[Highlander]

Thanks, I really appreciate your answer and how fascinating it is. I'll have to check around for the book. I enjoy reading about the various sciences and what they are exploring. . : :multi:

 

[Asimov]

So, if evidence of vary speed of light is found, will that change our conception of time? Sorry if this is a 101 kind of question, I hadn't heard of this VSL theory before.

Yes. I'll give you one example, because it is pretty complex, and sometimes even over my head a bit. We'll use the blackholes for our example - what the VSL theory would mean is that a blackhole is not really a hole at all, it is instead like a "cold time" zone. What that means is that just like molecules getting colder and simulatenously (or interchangably) moving slower, so time reaches points in the universe where it becomes "cold" or slower. So what VSL would indicate is that as you travel closer and closer towards a black hole, time slows down so that nothing could actually into a black hole, it would just simply freeze infinitely at its point.

And don't feel bad about not having heard of the VSL theory before - I am impressed that the others here know of it.

BTW, if you guys would like to get back on the main topic, I was enjoying that very much. Although I don't mind talking about VSL if that's where we want to go with this discussion...

BL

Wouldn't it also indicate an older universe as well?

 

[Blue-Lightning]

I suppose that would depend on where you were at in the universe...

This young earth v. old earth stuff is way to simplistic for me.

BL

 

[Guest]

What a fun read. You folks are really right up there with your science, I could follow most of it, but then you lost me in the fine details. Quite a great read though.

It was also fun to watch BB resort to "wait until your dad gets home" when he couldn't defend his positon and then, Blueyliner came in, right on que, to add her considerable elucidation to the issue.

All in all, very enlightening and entertaining, thank you.

:smt041 Thank you so much! Coming from you,thats a real treat.
I think that an attitude of love towards you is best,no matter how hard
you try to make it. Jesus Christ wants you too,so thats why I attempt
to try and help you. The Lord Jesus Christ wants you,and I think he
should have what he wants,amen & amen.

 

[Guest]

[quote="Blue-Lightning":5ca87]

So, if evidence of vary speed of light is found, will that change our conception of time? Sorry if this is a 101 kind of question, I hadn't heard of this VSL theory before.

Yes. I'll give you one example, because it is pretty complex, and sometimes even over my head a bit. We'll use the blackholes for our example - what the VSL theory would mean is that a blackhole is not really a hole at all, it is instead like a "cold time" zone. What that means is that just like molecules getting colder and simulatenously (or interchangably) moving slower, so time reaches points in the universe where it becomes "cold" or slower. So what VSL would indicate is that as you travel closer and closer towards a black hole, time slows down so that nothing could actually into a black hole, it would just simply freeze infinitely at its point.

And don't feel bad about not having heard of the VSL theory before - I am impressed that the others here know of it.

BTW, if you guys would like to get back on the main topic, I was enjoying that very much. Although I don't mind talking about VSL if that's where we want to go with this discussion...

BL

Wouldn't it also indicate an older universe as well?[/quote:5ca87]

:smt018 NO!

 

[Asimov]

I suppose that would depend on where you were at in the universe...

This young earth v. old earth stuff is way to simplistic for me.

BL

Ah, BL, I didn't mean it in that context...sorry for not clarifying.

I meant that if the speed of light has slowed down over the ages, would that indicate an older universe than the scientifically accepted one of 13.7 billion years.

According to the VSL theory though, light only travelled faster in the relatively few moments of the expansion, then rapidly slowed down.

How would that account for the accepted age of the universe, how big of a difference would it be in age?