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The Bible & Abortion

OT penalty for harming an unborn child:

“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. Exodus 21:22-25 NIV
 
Old Testament penalties were rather harsh and final. But the Israelites were a rather barbaric people in a barbaric region of the world and at the time these punishments were considered very just...and a tad lenient.

Today we're living in the age of grace. Supposedly more civilized. What the Catholics are stating is that there is forgiveness for having an abortion.

Abortion and murder and the sexual sins that led to having an abortion are serious sins. But repenting leads to seeking forgiveness which God grants fully to ALL who request it.
 
OT penalty for harming an unborn child:

“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. Exodus 21:22-25 NIV
I still go by that, Jesus didn't do away with Exodus 21:22-25
 
So we should execute the teens who are manipulated into aborting their babies?
Jason give me a break man. What do you say when the government invokes Romans 13 ?
 
The only question that needs to be answered is: what are the unborn?

If the unborn are human beings and full members of the human community, then abortion is murder. And if abortion is murder, then it should be illegal. If the unborn are not human beings, then it isn't even a matter of a woman's conscience; abortion is fine.
If anyone seriously has to ask this question, we indeed have very big problems in the world. What the heck would one THINK unborn humans are?? Unborn horses? I mean, really....
 
Jason give me a break man. What do you say when the government invokes Romans 13 ?
I see yet you are against jailing addicts.in the law of moses.the witch,aka drug dealer,user and abortionist were all lumped together and executed.the greek word for this mentioned already is pharmakea. Funny yet in acts and there were Christians who practiced this repented and burned their books.they were saved.
 
To rephrase the OP title, What does the bible say about murder? Thou shall not kill
 
Jason I am against jailing addicts for something like 10 years for a dime bag of crack or speed or something. You know me man, and you know that I am for the death penalty
 
Jason I am against jailing addicts for something like 10 years for a dime bag of crack or speed or something. You know me man, and you know that I am for the death penalty
a simple dime bag if they had them in days of Moses got one death.witches.thou Shall not suffer a witch to live.witches were also users.sorry.my point is that a teen isn't always mature enough to make the right choice.she presents the baby to be murdered not doing the act.that is the difference!
 
If anyone seriously has to ask this question, we indeed have very big problems in the world. What the heck would one THINK unborn humans are?? Unborn horses? I mean, really....
One indeed does have to seriously ask the question. Many, if not most, pro-abortionists do not believe the unborn are fully human or at least not human enough to make abortion murder. There are many sophisticated arguments as to why at least some of them believe this is the case.

It is the central question that must be answered before any discussion on abortion can really begin.
 
It is the central question that must be answered before any discussion on abortion can really begin.

Not really. Christians submit to Jesus's rule. So for Christians the central and only question is what does our Lord and Master want? Exodus 21:22-25 would seem to indicate that Jesus does not want unborn babies to be harmed. If this is the correct interpretation, we obey without question.

Unbelievers will use their human reasoning to make up their own definitions of when "fetal tissue" becomes "human". Unbelievers will "lean on their own understanding". Christians will simply submit to whatever Jesus says. The gulf between these two groups is vast. The 2 groups just don't think the same way.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV
 
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Ok Free. I agree the question needs to be answered. But it's not a hard question. The common sense of a child could figure it out. There are no sophicated arguments (that are not purely delusional ) that could make a logical, rational case (unless one evokes macro evolution) for thinking that when two humans mate, the developing offspring is anything but a growing baby human. Anyone who beleives it's some other "creature" and that it is ok to kill it; I would place in this camp.

2 Thessalonians 2
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
 
Not really. Christians submit to Jesus's rule. So for Christians the central and only question is what does our Lord and Master want? Exodus 21:22-25 would seem to indicate that Jesus does not want unborn babies to be harmed. If this is the correct interpretation, we obey without question.
Of course, but the key word is "if" in regards to Exodus. Being that there seems to be nothing explicitly stated in Scripture about abortion, apart from just a few possible translation issues, the question of what the unborn are becomes central. Of course, with any pro-abortionist it is the first thing that needs to be dealt with.

Unbelievers will use their human reasoning to make up their own definitions of when "fetal tissue" becomes "human". Unbelievers will "lean on their own understanding". Christians will simply submit to whatever Jesus says. The gulf between these two groups is vast. The 2 groups just don't think the same way.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV
Not all anti-abortionists are Christians and not all pro-abortionists are unbelievers. I suggest taking a look at my first response and why I brought this up.
 
Ok Free. I agree the question needs to be answered. But it's not a hard question. The common sense of a child could figure it out. There are no sophicated arguments (that are not purely delusional ) that could make a logical, rational case (unless one evokes macro evolution) for thinking that when two humans mate, the developing offspring is anything but a growing baby human. Anyone who beleives it's some other "creature" and that it is ok to kill it; I would place in this camp.

2 Thessalonians 2
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
No one argues that the unborn is some other creature but rather they argue as to when does human life begin, when does the unborn actually become a full fledge member of the human community.
 
No one argues that the unborn is some other creature but rather they argue as to when does human life begin, when does the unborn actually become a full fledge member of the human community.


It does not matter, that's a moot point. The developing baby is a developing baby. That's all anyone needs to know. We should not chop up developing babies. That an incredible reach to justify the killing of a DB ( developing baby) by saying it's not a "human" yet. Of course it's a human. It's innocent, it's alive, it's small and dependant on Mom. A new born is dependant on Mom to, do we murder new borns? No one can ever prove when the soul enters the body; no one can even prove a soul actually exists... However, it would be logical to assume that at conception it becomes a full fledged human member ( albeit dependant on Mom and is a VERY small deveolping human. No?
 
One indeed does have to seriously ask the question. Many, if not most, pro-abortionists do not believe the unborn are fully human or at least not human enough to make abortion murder. There are many sophisticated arguments as to why at least some of them believe this is the case.

It is the central question that must be answered before any discussion on abortion can really begin.

I agree.

When does human life begin?

The U.S. Senate Judiciary Subcommittee in 1981 held hearings on when life begins. The following are samples of evidence submitted by the medical profession (in Shettles with Rorvik 1983, pp. 113-114):

Dr Jerome LeJeune,
professor of genetics at the University of Descartes in Paris:

When does life begin? . . . Life has a very long history, but each individual has a very neat beginning, the moment of its conception . . . To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion. The human nature of the human being, conception to old age, is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence.​

Dr Watson A. Bowes, Jr
of the University of Colorado Medical School:

“The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter — the beginning is conception.”​

Dr Alfred Bongiovanni
of the University of Pennsylvania Medical School, after noting that standard medical texts have long taught that human life begins at conception, added:

'I am no more prepared to say that these early stages represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty . . . is not a human being'.​

Dr Micheline Matthews-Roth,
research associate of Harvard University Medical School: “It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception.”

Professor Hymie Gordon, chairman of the Department of Medical Genetics at the Mayo Clinic (Rochester, Minnesota): “By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception.”

Dr McCarthy De Mere, a practising physician and a law professor at the University of Tennessee: “The exact moment of the beginning [of] personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception.”

The medical breakthrough came in the 1960s when Francis Crick and James Watson discovered the genetic code (DNA).

'The genotype — the inherited characteristics of a unique human being — is established in the conception process and will remain in force for the entire life of that individual. No other event in biological life is so decisive as this one.... The genotype that is conferred at conception does not merely start life, it defines life' (in Shettles with Rorvik 1983, pp. 36-37).​

Biologically, human life begins when the sperm merges with the ovum to form the zygote, containing the full set of 46 chromosomes necessary to create new human life. “The haploid sex cells (ova or spermatozoa) are parts of potential human life. The zygote is human life” (Shettles with Rorvik 1983, p. 40, emphasis in original). The First International Conference on Abortion in Washington D.C., 1967, declared: “We can find no point in time between the union of sperm and egg and the birth of an infant at which point we can say that this in not a human life” (in Stott 1984, p. 286) [from my article: Abortion and Life: A Christian Perspective].

There is biblical evidence to support this position, but that's for another post if there is interest.

Works consulted
Shettles, L. B. with D. Rorvik 1983 , Rites of Life: The Scientific Evidence for Life Before Birth, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI.

Stott, J. 1984, Issues Facing Christians Today, Marshalls, Basingstoke, Hants.

Oz
 
Jason give me a break man. What do you say when the government invokes Romans 13 ?
Remember Daniel and the three hebrew boys didn't submit to the unlawful order given by the government. They knew this was sin against God.
 
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Remember Daniel and the three hebrew boys didn't submit to the unlawful order given by the government. They knew this was sin against God.
Daniel 3:16-18
I don't think Daniel was with these three at the time they faced the furnace. But later Daniel faced the lions den for his faith.
I happen to love verse 18 in the above scriptures. (But that's a story for another day)
 
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