The Bible and Slavery

[Nathan12]

I never said this. I said that the temple was David's idea.

Same difference. If it was David's idea, it was not God's idea. But if it was God's idea, it was not David's idea.

 

[john darling]

Same difference.

Not the same. God is able to inspire people with ideas. I believe that is true. In the case of David and the temple, that did not happen, just like God did not inspire the people to want a king and he did not inspire Moses to allow stubborn men to divorce their wives.

If it was David's idea, it was not God's idea. But if it was God's idea, it was not David's idea.

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

 

[Nathan12]

Not the same. God is able to inspire people with ideas. I believe that is true. In the case of David and the temple, that did not happen...

There's no need to contradict Scripture, which says that it did happen. Not only did God put that idea in David's mind, but God gave David A DETAILED DESIGN AND PATTERN for the temple and Solomon faithfully executed that design. Please read that chapter over and over again until this is settled in your mind.

 

[john darling]

We exchange work for cash payment. It just happens that we are paid weekly or biweekly or whatever but in reality we are slaves to those for whom we work.

Excellent observation. The idea that we cannot live without money is modern day slavery, and is why Jesus said we cannot serve two masters; God or money.

 

[WIP]

Excellent observation. The idea that we cannot live without money is modern day slavery, and is why Jesus said we cannot serve two masters; God or money.

We don't grow our own food, build our own homes, etc. anymore. This makes us dependent on others ergo, slaves.

 

[Pigeon]

Hello! sorry I was on an unfortunate hiatus. I've come back because, heh, I did make this thread didn't I?

This second video response is up. (It will be 3 parts) Hopefully soon I'll be able to interact and respond to what you guys have talked about so far.

 

[Nathan12]

The idea that we cannot live without money is modern day slavery

So what are you using as a medium of exchange? Have you reverted to cowrie shells?2

 

[Pigeon]

And interesting perspective on marriage in these biblical times. Also taking into context the slavery situation.

At this point one of my big remaining question is if Hebrew slaves had preferential treatment than foreign slaves. Were foreigners who worked in a house given the same treatment as their Hebrew counterparts? For example the text where it says all slaves can go free after 7 years makes no mention of foreign slaves. So do they get to go free too?

 

[Nathan12]

So do they get to go free too?

Not really. All Hebrews were a "brotherhood" therefore Hebrew slaves were to receive preferential treatment.

 

[Pigeon]

Not really. All Hebrews were a "brotherhood" therefore Hebrew slaves were to receive preferential treatment.

Hmm thats one thing atheists point at. Tribalism in the Bible.

 

[Christ_empowered]

i read about the abolitionist movement, and...as it was really heating up, in the years leading the The Civil War, some southerners made a point that I think holds true, to an extent, today: what's the real difference between the southern slavery and the "wage slavery" that was so prevalent in the north? think about it...

especially back then, before unions and legal protections for workers...people worked for low, low wages in unsafe conditions, and then they lived in substandard housing. got sick? TOO BAD! and so...

basically, I just wanted to a) point out that the elites up north weren't that much different from the elites in the south. if you read material from that time period, the southern slaveowners went so far as to praise the "good slave owners," who provided a place to live and days off for their slaves vs the northern industrialists, who...wow. they were hardcore, let's put it that way. oh, and...

b) OT references aside...and I'd like to point out that the OT slave rules called for a limited time of servitude, and there were ways to earn and/or purchase freedom...what do you think Jesus thinks of slavery? I honestly do.not.know, because I'm clearly not privy to Jesus' position on much, but...

given that He associated with pariahs, outcasts, healed low status people...I tend to think that Our Lord would be with the slaves (and wage slaves), even if their servitude did not end, this side of Heaven.

 

[WIP]

i read about the abolitionist movement, and...as it was really heating up, in the years leading the The Civil War, some southerners made a point that I think holds true, to an extent, today: what's the real difference between the southern slavery and the "wage slavery" that was so prevalent in the north? think about it...

especially back then, before unions and legal protections for workers...people worked for low, low wages in unsafe conditions, and then they lived in substandard housing. got sick? TOO BAD! and so...

basically, I just wanted to a) point out that the elites up north weren't that much different from the elites in the south. if you read material from that time period, the southern slaveowners went so far as to praise the "good slave owners," who provided a place to live and days off for their slaves vs the northern industrialists, who...wow. they were hardcore, let's put it that way. oh, and...

b) OT references aside...and I'd like to point out that the OT slave rules called for a limited time of servitude, and there were ways to earn and/or purchase freedom...what do you think Jesus thinks of slavery? I honestly do.not.know, because I'm clearly not privy to Jesus' position on much, but...

given that He associated with pariahs, outcasts, healed low status people...I tend to think that Our Lord would be with the slaves (and wage slaves), even if their servitude did not end, this side of Heaven.

What I think was really the issue with the slavery was the treatment of the slaves more than the fact that they were slaves. They were treated with zero respect, value (other than monetary for trade), or dignity. I wonder....if the slaves were treated with high honor, respect, dignity, kindness, compassion, and human value, would there have ever been a problem?

Let me put it this way. We are all slaves to what owns us. It could be our jobs, our debt, or sin, and so on. We get up early every day to go to a job so we can earn a living wage to feed, clothe, and shelter us among other things. Very few of us do that because that is what we truly want to do in life. We run up debt trying to entertain ourselves to the point that we are forced to work and in some cases multiple jobs to afford it and in some cases our lives aren't much better than the slaves during the 18th and 19th centuries less the abuse. Some of us are slaves to sin and even willing to take the abuse that goes with it such as prostitutes that are abused by their pimps. The only real difference is that we voluntarily enslave ourselves whereas those in the 18th and 19th centuries were taken against their will.

 

[Nathan12]

Hmm thats one thing atheists point at. Tribalism in the Bible.

Well since Atheists are a tribe unto themselves, they have no reason to complain.

 

[Pigeon]

Well since Atheists are a tribe unto themselves, they have no reason to complain.

I don't think countering a negative with "well they are the same" is a good enough response.

 

[Pigeon]

Here are all three parts together refuting the atheist perceptions of Biblical Slavery

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3