[_ Old Earth _] the big bang

[Guest]

A cosmic explosion that occured 11.5 billion years ago, creating dimensions, matter, and energy, this is far before the bible says the universe begins, (about 6000 years ago) what do you think?

 

[ArtGuy]

Well, the idea is that all the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny, tiny space. And in fact, this was the universe - the universe was, itself, very small. Where did this matter come from? Well, science is mute on that, and it's perfectly compatible with the idea that God created everything.

So after a few nothingths of a second, there was a rapid expansion of this matter/the universe, at which time everything began cooling. After a short while (like, tiny fraction of a second short), things were cool enough for the most basic building blocks of matter to form, and for the laws of physics to settle upon what we know. Fast forward 13.5 billion years or so, and we have us.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Guest]

Personally, whereas you can mathematically work our universe back to a singularity, I don't think it could have physically been possible. That's my 2 cents. However, having said that, it is obvious (from what we can observe) that the universe is very ancient. The proof is in star distances alone (but there are other evidences). How it came to be, . . . . . well, I still can place that on a supernatural "doorstep".

 

[ArtGuy]

It's likely that the universe never existed exactly as a singularity. The math we use tends to break down when you approach notions of infinity.

 

[peace4all]

Well.

I dont think anyone can eplain the first of eveything.

One side says "we dont knwo where the matter came from"

the other side says "God did it"


the "we don't know" searches for answers, where as the "god did it" gets asked "well where did God come from?"

Always answered with "God always was"

I think it is much mroe logical and reasonable to take out the God step, Because A, its a whole extra step, and B, Its much mroe realistic that there always was matter, than their always was this infionitely powerful, perfect, amazing everything, that only decided to do things in 6,000 of an infinite amount of time.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

It's likely that the universe never existed exactly as a singularity. The math we use tends to break down when you approach notions of infinity.

I disagree, because the energy involved in the Universes initial expansion could well have started from a single point.

 

[ArtGuy]

It's likely that the universe never existed exactly as a singularity. The math we use tends to break down when you approach notions of infinity.

I disagree, because the energy involved in the Universes initial expansion could well have started from a single point.

You don't see a problem with the infinite density required for our universe to have originated as a singularity?

You know the expression "nature abhors a naked singularity"? I'm pretty sure the early universe didn't have an event horizon. ;)

 

[Guest]

Well, the idea is that all the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny, tiny space. And in fact, this was the universe - the universe was, itself, very small. Where did this matter come from? Well, science is mute on that, and it's perfectly compatible with the idea that God created everything.

So after a few nothingths of a second, there was a rapid expansion of this matter/the universe, at which time everything began cooling. After a short while (like, tiny fraction of a second short), things were cool enough for the most basic building blocks of matter to form, and for the laws of physics to settle upon what we know. Fast forward 13.5 billion years or so, and we have us.

Sounds good to me.

not quite true, several theorys have been founded, ever heard of branes? google it, it's interesting, however, science has not yet completely explained those :D

 

[ArtGuy]

not quite true, several theorys have been founded, ever heard of branes? google it, it's interesting, however, science has not yet completely explained those :D

Branes's theory is interesting, but it appears to be based on string theory, which doesn't seem to be faring too well in the scientific community.

 

[ArtGuy]

oh well, they'll figure it out eventually :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: I like the bouncy angle, don't you?

Yeah, that part was pretty keen. I definitely give Branes points for coolness.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

It's likely that the universe never existed exactly as a singularity. The math we use tends to break down when you approach notions of infinity.

I disagree, because the energy involved in the Universes initial expansion could well have started from a single point.

You don't see a problem with the infinite density required for our universe to have originated as a singularity?

You know the expression "nature abhors a naked singularity"? I'm pretty sure the early universe didn't have an event horizon. ;)

What I meant was that Dark Energy fueled the expansion of the universe, as is apparent from the way it still does. No reason it couldn't have then. Well no reason that are in any way based on evidence that you can find in the world. dad's theories about the theophysical universe not withstanding.

 

[reznwerks]

where

Well, the idea is that all the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny, tiny space. And in fact, this was the universe - the universe was, itself, very small. Where did this matter come from? Well, science is mute on that, and it's perfectly compatible with the idea that God created everything.

.

Science doesn't have to know where the matter came from even though they would love too. This is one of those questions that are waiting to be answered. You solution that God must have done it doesn't hold water for several reasons. First of all there is no evidence that a God exists. Secondly if you did find a God you would have to have evidence that it was YOUR God. Finally you find it hard to believe that the universe started with a "Big Bang" yet you have no problem accepting the idea that God "always" existed and somehow under his hat he always had all this matter tucked away and then just added water to have what we have today. If there is a God then he too had to have a beginning and a catalyst for starting. We may never have all the answers to everything and we may never but that does not mean a God of the gaps exists.

 

[ArtGuy]

Re: where

Science doesn't have to know where the matter came from even though they would love too. This is one of those questions that are waiting to be answered. You solution that God must have done it doesn't hold water for several reasons. First of all there is no evidence that a God exists. Secondly if you did find a God you would have to have evidence that it was YOUR God. Finally you find it hard to believe that the universe started with a "Big Bang" yet you have no problem accepting the idea that God "always" existed and somehow under his hat he always had all this matter tucked away and then just added water to have what we have today. If there is a God then he too had to have a beginning and a catalyst for starting. We may never have all the answers to everything and we may never but that does not mean a God of the gaps exists.

Man, were you beaten up by a Bible when you were little, or something? I don't get where all this hostility came from, especially when - if you'd bothered to read the whole thread - it's pretty clear that I accept the Big Bang as the origin of the universe. All I was saying was that the idea that a bunch of matter exploded from an approximate point wasn't incompatible with a God who created all that matter to begin with.

Loosen your tie a little, relax, and try to be more tolerant of those who disagree with your theological positions. I'm not your enemy, rez. You don't need to treat me as one.

 

[dad]

A cosmic explosion that occured 11.5 billion years ago, creating dimensions, matter, and energy, this is far before the bible says the universe begins, (about 6000 years ago) what do you think?

I think it's a croc. A physical, natural only attempt at an explanation of things. They might then start by proving all there is is the material, or physical. Even more importantly, that that is all there was. They can't say that. It has got to be the silliest idea in the world, almost.
For those chriatians who believe in the old ages, I would ask this, if the bible is true at all, how could the earth have come from a universe that was created after the earth? Impossible.
For those who try to limit God to their understanding, and claim He had to have a beginning, I say phooey. Our physical universe had a beginning, yes. The concept of beginning for all we know started then?! He isn't limited to time, He created it.

 

[lightwait]

workings

The workings of God in greek is energia. There is a transformation principle. Moreover, Jesus ascended to show the path from physicality to spiritâ€â€flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. We came from the word and the word is God.

Were God to send energia, at the same time and from all directions, into a mass point, (think about it and do the math), the energia would try to escape and the ensuing energia would slow down that which would be trying to escape and soon there would be massâ€â€a sun would be born. I know you think it is a foolish statement. Think a little more. :-? :roll: :fadein: :o :D

I got the idea from Paul: “But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.†1 Corinthians 14:24, 25, KJV.

The unbeliever would see the love of the believers and that love would from all directions be sent into the heart of the unbeliever and a son would be born.

The Lord in Mal 4:2 is the sun of righteousness.

I just happen to believe that the whole principle of creation is predicated on giving. We are here talking to each other and that is proofâ€â€life is a giving entity. And I believe that the creation of physical and spiritual things are done with the same process. We learn any dynamic by many particulars. We learn about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and life and light and love by the particulars Jesus gave to us in the words He has spoken. The dynamic of the pathway leads us to the light. It all comes from the general to the particularâ€â€from God to the singularity and back to God.

I do not suggest that any of this is trueâ€â€I was not there during the creation. I know there is a path from God to us and back to God. I know that if what we do, now that we are mid way in the path from and to God, does not lead to the Kingdom it is vanity. In God there is no darknessâ€â€the path is from darkness to light. I wonder if we are going in the right direction.

 

[Charlie Hatchett]

A cosmic explosion that occured 11.5 billion years ago, creating dimensions, matter, and energy, this is far before the bible says the universe begins, (about 6000 years ago) what do you think?

I say the dating techniques are incorrect. Their based entirely on uniformitarian

assumptions...which is entirely ridiculous...even magnified in ignorance if old

age is assumed.


Peace

 

[TruthMiner]

A cosmic explosion that occured 11.5 billion years ago, creating dimensions, matter, and energy, this is far before the bible says the universe begins, (about 6000 years ago) what do you think?

I can't find any viable reason to see why Genesis 1:3 can't be an expression of such an event.