The Body of Christ

[leroy]

It seems odd he would think that without knowledge of your repentance and baptism into Christ.

He could see that I was very different from before. My testimony was similar to his.

When did you get baptized ?

In February 1988 in the Columbia river.

What was the manifestation of the gift of the Holy Ghost ?

I had experienced all the miracles of being kept and seeing my life change, but it seemed like something was missing and I could not place it. I was in a house with some friends and some I had never known. I was thumbing through my bible and every where I looked there was a promise for deliverance, escape and His keeping power etc. I said quietly, "Its on every page!!!" A stranger who was sitting near by said, "There's a text for that." 2 Cor 3:17,18
"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."
As I read the scripture I could truly relate to the liberty I was experiencing. It was saying to me that as we look in the mirror of God's word we see Him, not ourselves and we are changed into His likeness.
That scripture was like a bell going off in my heart. I now believed where before I was still wondering what happened to me.
That evening we were talking about the the vision in Ez.1:10. where there were four faces, a man, a lion, an ox and an eagle. This represent Christ. He took on a human, He was a lion, which is kingship, an ox, the sacrifice, and I could not remember the eagle. Then someone reminded me.
"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’ wings, and brought you unto myself." Ex 19:4
The next morning we stepped outside and a 100 yards away there was a bright, small double rainbow. while we were standing at the river a bald eagle was soaring above and then he landed in a near by tree. There were no leaves and he stood out clearly. Someone had said that at every baptism that the Holy Spirit makes himself evident. Well that eagle spoke very clearly to my heart.

I have never thought about it before, but the obvious answer is from Mary.

What is the definition of divine that you use ?

Divine refers to divinity or God.

Jesus was fully human and fully sanctified.

It seems clear to me that his humanity and the Son's divinity were combined into one being. Jesus was a partaker of the divine nature and the Son was a partaker of humanity

No, as the Word had not yet taken on skin and bones.

Yes I agree. Jesus had his origin in Mary's womb

In Matt 8, it was the devils, using the man's voice.

I bring this up to demonstrate that a spirit being can be inside of a human being and use their mouths to speak even with a different voice. My sister-in-law was possessed and committed suicide after she died the counselor that she had been seeing gave my wife cassette tapes of his interviews with her. There was more than one demon in her because there were at least two different voices that were not hers. I didn't listen to them but Kay told me about it. That's why I believe God's Son who is a spirit being lived in Jesus human body and His statement was that the words I speak are not my own and the things you see me do I do because I see the Father do them.

I see no references to Jesus dwelling in men, in Matt 8.

No I wasn't saying that.

Jesus could not dwell in anyone until after His resurrection form the dead and He could sent the gift of the holy Ghost to the repentant.

I don't even think of Jesus as any "spirit being" even after His risen body was glorified.

No I don't see that the man Jesus, the son of Mary, is a spirit being. He was a human being. However the Son of God who is a spirit lives in him and they have become indivisiblely one. The Son gave up his prerogative as God. One of which is omnipresence. Most people think of Him as only being able to be in one place because they think of Jesus. But I believe that the Father could ordain for Him to be present within the lives of every human on the Earth to try to save them from within.

It happened at His conception onside of Mary.

There weren't two.
God and Mary had one son; Jesus, who was the Word made flesh.

I am not sure why it is difficult to see that the two became one. The scripture is full of this

 

[Hopeful 2]

You mean it was a kinda sorta sinful flesh, but not really?

No, it was just skin and bones.
There is nothing sinful inherent in skin and bones.

It says that he "condemned sin in the flesh". I take that to mean He bore sinful flesh without sinning and by so doing, condemned the idea that sin could not be overcome.

No, He condemned sin while walking in skin and bones like the rest of us.

My father was an alcoholic among other soul destroying activities. I could very well be carrying genes for any of these damaging practices and yet live a very healthy life style so that these genes are never expressed. Even though, "the sins of the fathers are passed on to the children....

No, they are not.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezek 18:20)

" they may be overcome by the child and never acted upon. Even though I bear the results of my father's sin

You are wrong...Ezek 18:20.

and have the propensity to become an alcoholic, (sinner) if I never acted upon it, I would not be an alcoholic (sinner). Are you following me so far?
Adam could only pass on to his children sinful flesh which carried with it the propensity of every evil that Satan injected into it. Able evidently chose to expressed very little of those evil traits, but Cane was a murderer from the beginning as was his father the devil.

You are magically imbuing a selected attribute, or better said, deficiency, into inanimate skin and bones.

A baby is born with sinful flesh which is under the sentence of death because that nature was the product of humanity surrendering to the Adversary. Anything that is the creation of the devil has to parish, no matter how good or how bad that life may be, their nature condemns them to death.
That nature was the same as Satan's, it was filled with an intense hostility towards God (enmity). It cannot love God or obey God. It cannot seek after God or repent of its evil. That is why God sent His Son to live in us as the Seed and give us assistance to repent and seek after the Father.
Love was replaced with fear and natural desires. I think we can agree on that. However, despite having sinful flesh, a baby is not a sinner at birth. It takes an act of knowing disobedience to qualify as sin yet that child is still condemned to death. The satanic nature must be destroyed because it cannot be fixed.

Your pursuing a straw man argument..

I have no desire to suggest that you should abandon your beliefs in obedience but correct me if I am wrong. I think you have shared that the Holy spirit was given after your baptism. Also that the Savior was not in you until you repented.

Yes, and yes.
The Holy Spirit will not dwell in a polluted temple.
Only Cornelius and his group received the gift of the Holy Ghost before their water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And even Cornelius' life showed beforehand a true repentance.

According to the bible the fallen nature is filled with an intense hostility towards God. It cannot love God or obey God.

Scripture stating that...please.
Were that true, nobody would ever turn from sin.

It cannot seek after God or repent of its evil. On that fateful day Love was replaced with fear and natural desires. If the Seed was not in you, drawing you to the Father how could you repent?

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
(2 Cor 7:10)
If a man is sorry enough for his sins, he won't do them anymore.
Man cab regret sin without God being in him.

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Acts 5:31

Thank God for the availability of repentance.

Actually, I did repent, I was first brought to agree with God of my lost condition. That was why I prayed earnestly for a month. I finally repented of thinking that there was something I could do to come to God. His redemption is His own work. All we can do is allow the Son, under the power of the spirit to draw us to where the Father can do for us what we are unable to do for our selves. Then over a two week period I found myself turning from the many evils of my past life. Truly, the Savior was giving me repentance, (turning away) from my sins.

I am glad that Godliness appealed to you.

Dear friend, I would like to make one small correction, if I may. Your baptism was the symbol of accepting what God had declared to be true 2000 years ago. The old man was crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed with Jesus and you were raised to life with Jesus 2000 years ago.

No, It was an actual participation in His suffering and death.
Peter writes..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Your version makes that "arming" impossible.

Not sure but are you saying that the 'MAN' Jesus existed BEFORE he took on flesh?

No, The Word "existed", before He took on flesh and was named Jesus.

The Son was with the Father from eternity ,and the godhead is 'spirit' according to the bible not (MAN), humanity. I'm sure this is a typo.

He was, but He was the Word, back then.

There seems to be a legalistic necessity in the use of names. There are many names by which we know God. They are descriptive and varied yet cannot tell the whole. God cannot be limited to any given name but each use tells us something that helps us grasp divine truth.

OK.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". (John 1:1)

I would say it a little differently. The Word entered that human baby of skin and bones.

Were that true, then God's seed had nothing to do with the conception of Jesus in Mary.

The plan of redemption needed to show to both the fallen agencies of darkness and us, that God could take a man with the corrupt baggage that 4000 years of degradation could bring and carry him through this life without sin. In doing so He gained the right to destroy that sinful flesh which was Satan's rightful creation, and still bring these lost souls home to His heart of Love. leaving Satan nothing to say anymore.

I won't follow that tangent.

I'm not sure why you hold this belief. After the disciples were deprived of Jesus personal presence they would begin to feel the need of the spirit. So Jesus was telling them that the Spirit would come and supply their needs to help them and to bring to remembrance all that he had taught them. The spirit was poured out upon them on the day of Pentecost for a clear reason.

Wasn't that after Jesus' resurrection ?
Jesus left so He could send the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1 Peter 1:10,11
The Son, a spirit being,

The Son of God was made of skin and bones.
He was not a "spirit being", as spirits cannot be touched or tortured or killed..

(sorry but I feel I have to keep reminding you of this)

You can stop, as you are on some odd tangent with that idea.

Was in people before Bethlehem. I believe He came into humans in Eden. As soon as there was sin, there was a Savior. Adam and Eve would have no ability to turn to God if they didn't have the Son living in them to replace that which had perished on the day of sin. He was the Seed of the woman.

The Holy Spirit could be in people since the first prophesies were given.

 

[Hopeful 2]

See if this sounds sweet to your soul. Father has taken the salvation of the helpless soul upon Himself. He will perform the requirements within the soul through the Son.

This is false doctrine.
Nobody can repent FOR someone else.
Nobody can get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins FOR someone else.

The Son will, on the soul's behalf, bring an awareness of its great need. As the soul feels the great conviction of heart, the Son will place sinners the trembling hand in the Father's and forgiveness cleanses the heart. His baptism will express his belief in what Father has brought to pass.

Really false doctrine.

The only source of true Love is in the heart of God. The Son in love will decide and act in the soul to bring about the Fathers good pleasure and He who has began a good work in you will preform it unto the day of Christ.

In the procreative act the mother provides a genetic package which is fully mommy. The father provides genetic material that is fully daddy. When the two genetic elements combine a new creature is formed. No longer fully daddy fully mommy but mommy and daddy combined. In truth the two have become one in that child.

For the new creature, there is no need for a 'mommy'.

As the bride stands before her husband make it in unashamed she's not concerned about her shape or any possible imperfection because she knows her husband loves her and she feels safe. She feels a longing need for life to come in to her that she might produce a child from her husband. The husband takes his longing bride and puts his life into her and a new creature is born that is a combined new creature.
We are the bride of Christ and Paul considers us a chaste virgin for our divine husband who is the Seed within us. As the Son goes through the process of bringing the bride to the Father we stand naked and unashamed, even though we are covered with putrefying sores from the top of our head to the soul of our foot. We know we have nothing to hide in the presence of the Lover of our soul. As the Father turns His gaze upon us he says, "I see no spot in thee, Thou art all fair my beloved." The Father's gaze is creative. He cannot see us in anything but a perfect state. If he saw any flaw that is all we would ever be. As he looks upon us forgiveness, cleansing and healing take place. As the love of the Father comes into the soul consuming our need, He consummates with the Seed dwelling within and the Son is born again with the soul. He begins to live and move taking possession of the soul creating a new creature. Again and again the soul is consummated with the Father and the Seed. Every time something new that needs to be revealed there is a consummating effect and Christ continues to grow up within us until we come to the fullness of the stature of the Son of God and He is glorified in His saints
to be continued

Remember the demoniac's. There was a spirit in them speaking through them and animating their actions. The devil hijacks an element within the human soul that was created by the Creator. That we might be a temple for His indwelling, the fullness of the Godhead bodily. It is God who lives in us both to will and to do according to His good pleasure. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
Does the Son live in us? Did He live in Adam and Eve?
The prophets who had "the Spirit of Christ which was in them." Was the Son living in them?
How could Father save us unless He was in us, giving us His divine life,
keeping us from falling by providing a way of escape.
Jesus was our human example, he showed us what it was like to have a sinful nature and yet be kept by the life of the Son of God who lived in him. This is exactly how our salvation is to take place we are sinful human beings but God provides His Son to be our life and our salvation. He is the keeping agent which prevents us from falling. He is the spirit, we are the human body, Jesus is the head of that body.

Father believes it is destroyed and by believing what He believes we face the lies of the familiar spirits that it is still alive. In this our faith is strengthen.

I believe that it is the same as all catholics and main stream protestant churches. But correct me if I am wrong.

I had to lay down my human efforts. The throne of the heart has room for only one. Our humanity is something that will always be with us. and is the partaker of the divine nature. We don't stop being human when we are born again. Humanity and divinity combined is the quality of the new creature that emerges from the tomb. (watery grave)

No comment...

 

[Hopeful 2]

He could see that I was very different from before. My testimony was similar to his.

When an unbiblical man tells you anything, it would have been wise to see how it stacks up to scripture.
He was off base.

In February 1988 in the Columbia river.
I had experienced all the miracles of being kept and seeing my life change, but it seemed like something was missing and I could not place it. I was in a house with some friends and some I had never known. I was thumbing through my bible and every where I looked there was a promise for deliverance, escape and His keeping power etc. I said quietly, "Its on every page!!!" A stranger who was sitting near by said, "There's a text for that." 2 Cor 3:17,18
"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."
As I read the scripture I could truly relate to the liberty I was experiencing. It was saying to me that as we look in the mirror of God's word we see Him, not ourselves and we are changed into His likeness.
That scripture was like a bell going off in my heart. I now believed where before I was still wondering what happened to me.
That evening we were talking about the the vision in Ez.1:10. where there were four faces, a man, a lion, an ox and an eagle. This represent Christ. He took on a human, He was a lion, which is kingship, an ox, the sacrifice, and I could not remember the eagle. Then someone reminded me.
"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’ wings, and brought you unto myself." Ex 19:4
The next morning we stepped outside and a 100 yards away there was a bright, small double rainbow. while we were standing at the river a bald eagle was soaring above and then he landed in a near by tree. There were no leaves and he stood out clearly. Someone had said that at every baptism that the Holy Spirit makes himself evident. Well that eagle spoke very clearly to my heart.

Everything but the actual baptism...how odd.
And so different than on the day of Pentecost.

Divine refers to divinity or God.

That isn't a definition of divinity.

It seems clear to me that his humanity and the Son's divinity were combined into one being. Jesus was a partaker of the divine nature and the Son was a partaker of humanity

I don't know the reasons for your refusal to see Jesus as the Son of God, but it is wrong

Yes I agree. Jesus had his origin in Mary's womb

OK.

I bring this up to demonstrate that a spirit being can be inside of a human being and use their mouths to speak even with a different voice. My sister-in-law was possessed and committed suicide after she died the counselor that she had been seeing gave my wife cassette tapes of his interviews with her. There was more than one demon in her because there were at least two different voices that were not hers. I didn't listen to them but Kay told me about it. That's why I believe God's Son who is a spirit being lived in Jesus human body and His statement was that the words I speak are not my own and the things you see me do I do because I see the Father do them.

Jesus is God's Son.
Your POV is not biblical.

No I wasn't saying that.

OK.

No I don't see that the man Jesus, the son of Mary, is a spirit being. He was a human being.

He was also the Son of God.
Your focus on "spirit beings" is troublesome.
You see Jesus as a man who was inhabited by the Son of God.
But Jesus WAS the Son of God.

However the Son of God who is a spirit lives in him and they have become indivisiblely one. The Son gave up his prerogative as God. One of which is omnipresence. Most people think of Him as only being able to be in one place because they think of Jesus. But I believe that the Father could ordain for Him to be present within the lives of every human on the Earth to try to save them from within.

I am not sure why it is difficult to see that the two became one. The scripture is full of this

I don't believe false doctrine.

 

[leroy]

No, it was just skin and bones.
There is nothing sinful inherent in skin and bones.

So are you saying that 'skin and bones' is equal in meaning to "the likeness of sinful flesh"?
Was Adam 'skin and bones' prior to the fall? And after the fall he was sinful flesh?

No, He condemned sin while walking in skin and bones like the rest of us.

You wrote: while walking in skin and bones like the rest of us
So we are walking in skin and bones too?
I'm having difficulty understanding what you believe about this skin and bones thing.

No, they are not.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezek 18:20)

You seem so emphatic! It bespeaks of a little bit of passion.
You are mixing apples and oranges. As I read this it is clearly speaking of final judgment and punishment. If my father murdered someone. I will not be held accountable for what he did. Your use of this text is out of context to the subject.
Read verse 17 "Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live."

The sins passed down from the father can have a cause-and-effect relationship on the children. For instance a hot temper can be inherited. The weakness created in me by my father's sin and the propensity for such is a natural law that God speaks of.
I believe the reason that the sins are passed down is because God wants to deal with sin in an intelligent way. He's looking for someone to be responsible and say, 'the buck stops here'. He wants someone to sit down and reason together with Him about sin and come into agreement with Him as to why it is sin and what damage it can cause as well He wants to blot it out so the page is white as snow.

You are wrong...Ezek 18:20.

You are magically imbuing a selected attribute, or better said, deficiency, into inanimate skin and bones.

I do not catch you thought.

Your pursuing a straw man argument..

That is an easy answer, Just make an accusation and walk away. I had hoped we could have a reasonable conversation.

Yes, and yes.
The Holy Spirit will not dwell in a polluted temple.
Only Cornelius and his group received the gift of the Holy Ghost before their water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And even Cornelius' life showed beforehand a true repentance.

Scripture stating that...please.

Romans 8 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Were that true, nobody would ever turn from sin.

That is precisely what I have been trying to share with you. Without Christ in the soul bearing the sins of the world it is impossible for you to seek after God or love God any more than Satan could. Only Christ can give repentance to the lost sinner.

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Yes, exactly, A godly sorrow is required. Does the lost soul have such a thing as a godly sorrow? No!
The best that the sinner can produce is the sorrow of the world which is often sorrow for getting caught. I came on the sene of an accident where the dust had not cleared. A man fell asleep and rolled his car, crushing the head of hid young son. I watched as the boy took his last breath. I'm sure the father will carry that sorrow with him the rest of his life. But I do not believe this was godly sorrow. The most wicked can feel that kind of sorrow. The sinner can have no understanding of the depth of what the smallest sin can cost God. Like something as small as eating a piece of fruit.

(2 Cor 7:10)
If a man is sorry enough for his sins, he won't do them anymore.

Man cab regret sin without God being in him.

Well said

Thank God for the availability of repentance.

Which only comes from Christ within.

I am glad that Godliness appealed to you.

No, It was an actual participation in His suffering and death.
Peter writes..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Your version makes that "arming" impossible.

No, The Word "existed", before He took on flesh and was named Jesus.

He was, but He was the Word, back then.

OK.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". (John 1:1)

Were that true, then God's seed had nothing to do with the conception of Jesus in Mary.

The Son is the Seed.

I won't follow that tangent.

Wasn't that after Jesus' resurrection ?
Jesus left so He could send the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Son of God was made of skin and bones.
He was not a "spirit being", as spirits cannot be touched or tortured or killed..

The torcher and pain that God has felt as the result of sin cannot be expressed.

You can stop, as you are on some odd tangent with that idea.

You wrote, "The Holy Spirit could be in people since the first prophesies were given." Well the first prophecy was in Genesis 3:15.

This is not meant to be combative or slanderous but I'm somewhat amused as I read your responses. It seems that you are determined to be disagreeable no matter what I say. I feel like I'm on the path with Pilgrim and we just met Obstinance.

 

[leroy]

This is false doctrine.
Nobody can repent FOR someone else.
Nobody can get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins FOR someone else.

Really false doctrine.

For the new creature, there is no need for a 'mommy'.

No comment...

Well I can see that we have little that we agree upon so I will stop bothering you.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So are you saying that 'skin and bones' is equal in meaning to "the likeness of sinful flesh"?

Yes.
The only thing that makes skin and bones-flesh sinful is the sinner.

Was Adam 'skin and bones' prior to the fall? And after the fall he was sinful flesh?

Yes, after his fall, though, the sinful man made his skin and bones sinful.

You wrote: while walking in skin and bones like the rest of us
So we are walking in skin and bones too?

Of course we are.

I'm having difficulty understanding what you believe about this skin and bones thing.

Most of the uses of the word "flesh" have something to do with the skin and bones, tendons and muscles, of men.
Others uses, however, deal with the worldly oriented mind.

You seem so emphatic! It bespeaks of a little bit of passion.

Just an answer...

You are mixing apples and oranges. As I read this it is clearly speaking of final judgment and punishment. If my father murdered someone. I will not be held accountable for what he did. Your use of this text is out of context to the subject.
Read verse 17 "Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live."

Weren't you talking about sin being passed down to us generically ?
It just isn't so.

The sins passed down from the father can have a cause-and-effect relationship on the children. For instance a hot temper can be inherited. The weakness created in me by my father's sin and the propensity for such is a natural law that God speaks of.
I believe the reason that the sins are passed down is because God wants to deal with sin in an intelligent way. He's looking for someone to be responsible and say, 'the buck stops here'. He wants someone to sit down and reason together with Him about sin and come into agreement with Him as to why it is sin and what damage it can cause as well He wants to blot it out so the page is white as snow.

I hope Ezek 18:20 alleviates your fears.
No man's sin is passed down to anyone else.

I do not catch you thought.

Your POV is that genes can make a man sin.
They can't.
Sin is always a chosen course of action.

That is an easy answer, Just make an accusation and walk away. I had hoped we could have a reasonable conversation.

Yes, it was an easy answer.
You are going down an unbiblical trail.

Romans 8 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is one of the verses that uses the word "flesh" to, in this case, define a carnal mind...not skin and bones.
Thank God our orientation can change with sorrow and regret.

That is precisely what I have been trying to share with you. Without Christ in the soul bearing the sins of the world it is impossible for you to seek after God or love God any more than Satan could. Only Christ can give repentance to the lost sinner.

You have the cart in front of the horse.
God and His Son Jesus have provided repentance from sin to all of mankind.
It is on us to accept it and manifest it..

Yes, exactly, A godly sorrow is required. Does the lost soul have such a thing as a godly sorrow? No!

He does if he regret's his actions.
I did.

The best that the sinner can produce is the sorrow of the world which is often sorrow for getting caught. I came on the sene of an accident where the dust had not cleared. A man fell asleep and rolled his car, crushing the head of hid young son. I watched as the boy took his last breath. I'm sure the father will carry that sorrow with him the rest of his life. But I do not believe this was godly sorrow. The most wicked can feel that kind of sorrow. The sinner can have no understanding of the depth of what the smallest sin can cost God. Like something as small as eating a piece of fruit.

You are wrong.
How do you know his sorrow wasn't enough to get him into a drunk program, and more ?

Well said

That regret can be Godly..."fervent and true".

Which only comes from Christ within.

I disagree.

The Son is the Seed.

It depends on which scripture you refer to.
Which on are you citing ?

The torcher and pain that God has felt as the result of sin cannot be expressed.

True.

You wrote, "The Holy Spirit could be in people since the first prophesies were given." Well the first prophecy was in Genesis 3:15.

That particular prophesy was uttered by God Himself.
There was no need for His Spirit to go into someone to say it.

This is not meant to be combative or slanderous but I'm somewhat amused as I read your responses. It seems that you are determined to be disagreeable no matter what I say. I feel like I'm on the path with Pilgrim and we just met Obstinance.

You present an untenable POV.