the book of revalation and newsensalationism

[jasoncran]

is it good to look for the prophecies and say this is it without looking hard at what the actual bible says?

for instance how the a/c comes and also what the number of the beast is and the mark as well.

 

[reba]

Jason are trying to inject common sense into end times??


We can search out past headlines in support of your question

 

[jasoncran]

Jason are trying to inject common sense into end times??


We can search out past headlines in support of your question

the word you is missing in that sentence , but pull up some oldies and lets talk

 

[Adstar]

is it good to look for the prophecies and say this is it without looking hard at what the actual bible says?

for instance how the a/c comes and also what the number of the beast is and the mark as well.

Sorry Jason. I am not sure what you mean here? Could you try and say it in a more simple way?

What is your point?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[jasoncran]

Sorry Jason. I am not sure what you mean here? Could you try and say it in a more simple way?

What is your point?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

futurists(some) use conspiracies theories and or also news to say that this prophecy is fulfilled without doing the reasearch to see what the bible says on the rise of the anti-christ and or the mark of the beast.

ie the perfect example the concept of the nwo. neither is that concept founded or debunked by the bible.

theres no verse that says or alludes to the concept of the new world order

only this that the whole world worships and follows the beast
along with the mark of the beast(again undefined what that is) and also the babylonian system

when said futurist do this and then that"prophecy" doesnt come to pass theres no whoops, and cease they move on to something else.

that isnt biblical to do that when the bible doesnt really say much on some things.

 

[Strangelove]

Congratulations.

If you type in 'newsensalationism' into google, your thread is the only hit on Earth.



Maybe you can tell us how to interpret prophecy without that prophecy meaning anything prophetic in the real world.

 

[Vic C.]

futurists(some) use conspiracies theories and or also news to say that this prophecy is fulfilled without doing the reasearch to see what the bible says on the rise of the anti-christ and or the mark of the beast.

The first thing a Bible student should do, especially one studying End Times, is to familiarize themselves with this passage:

Isa 8:11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
Isa 8:12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
Isa 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. (many translations say conspiracy instead of confederacy)

ie the perfect example the concept of the nwo. neither is that concept founded or debunked by the bible.

theres no verse that says or alludes to the concept of the new world order

The NWO is not new at all. Satan has been out to deceive us from the beginning:

Eccl 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Eccl 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

that isnt biblical to do that when the bible doesnt really say much on some things.

When the Bible is silent on whether or not prophecy has been fulfilled, I feel the more chronological approach should be taken. As we know, the Bible isn't structured in a pure chronological fashion. There are chronological Bibles to be had that could help. There are also historical writings that may lend information and fact to any possible historical fulfillments. There are also commentaries by scholars like Adam Clarke, who have done the extensive historical research.

Looking at some prophecies from this historical perspective seems to be an oddity in some Christian circles these days. I'm not saying to rely on history for interpreting and understanding some scripture, but it is a tool nonetheless. :yes

 

[Strangelove]

Looking at some prophecies from this historical perspective seems to be an oddity in some Christian circles these days. I'm not saying to rely on history for interpreting and understanding some scripture, but it is a tool nonetheless.

And yesterdays news counts as history too, right Vic?

 

[Vic C.]

And yesterdays news counts as history too, right Vic?

ONLY when it comes to multiple or partial fulfillments. This is what I believe, but you don't have to believe it.

A.D.70
A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age


Still Future
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history

(Source: R.C. Sproul, Last Days) The Coming (parousia) of Christ

If you choose to believe otherwise, it's like Jason says,

when said futurist do this and then that"prophecy" doesnt come to pass theres no whoops, and cease they move on to something else.

I think Jason is on to something. A purely futuristic approach leaves me feeling empty. Promises never seem to come to fruition and many a believer starts to lean more on these unfulfilled prophecies instead of leaning on the wisdom of the Lord.

 

[Strangelove]

The Rome Herald​

​

Jerusalem Sacked By Titus - City in Ashes​

By Special Reporter Kelly Blazenpants
The Rome Herald - Sep. 8th 70 A.D.​

The Jewish stronghold of Jerusalem was yesterday utterly sacked by Roman armies led by Emporer Titus following a lenghty siege of the city amid growing unrest in the region.

Tensions had been rising in the Middle East following a breakdown in negotiations between Rome and the Jews and reported terrorist activities in neighbouring countries. Last week Emporer Titus revealed at the annual meeting of the Brotherhood of the snake "Jerusalem is a known harbinger of terrorists that threaten the freedoms of those in the Roman Empire...and the entire world. They oppose democracy, they oppose liberty, and they refuse to pay their taxes!".

After the initial siege the Empires 3rd battalion overcame Jewish defences with ease. Emporer Titus after sending in special envoy Josephus with a failed attempt to negotiate with the terrorists, obliterated the walls of the city with latest technology battering rams that eventually started a huge inferno raging throughout Jerusalem including the temple complex. The entire city was destroyed and most occupants killed although some Jews made a daring escape through underground tunnels.

Bible adherents were today speculating that the entire seige and outcome was the fullfillment of scriptural prophecy regarding the Gospel account of Mark 13:

13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto
him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are
here!

13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great
buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall
not be thrown down.

A government representative responded "It's just sensationalism".

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Back page - Brutus agrees multi million denari deal to fight for the Gaul Braves in Super-Glad XXIII.

 

[Vic C.]

Point taken. But I fail to understand, why the reliance of today's headlines (which rely on sensationalism) when God's plan is already laid out for "us"? His word is hardly sensationalism. :yes

 

[Strangelove]

Point taken. But I fail to understand, why the reliance of today's headlines (which rely on sensationalism) when God's plan is already laid out for "us"? His word is hardly sensationalism. :yes

Well, I dont see any reliance. No ones relying on news. I'm guessing this thread is aimed at Johnny as he's constantly bringing forward news information regarding possible prophecy fullfilment. To me the guy is simply watching (like we're told to do) for number 1 in your list of things left to come which is the the day of the Lord.

There is plenty of info in Revelation and elsewhere which MAY refer to the end of history so Johnny is keeping us updated on possible signs happening in the real world. He's not laying down stone cold prophecy and he makes that quite clear. If you dont wanna link any of the info he brings forward to scripture, fine...but at the very least he's keeping you abreast of whats going on in the world.

To me he's one of the most valuable people here. I love him. And my message to him is...keep doing what your doing...keep watching. You are a credit to your faith and a precious member of the flock.

Doc.

 

[reba]

I think Jason is on to something. A purely futuristic approach leaves me feeling empty. Promises never seem to come to fruition and many a believer starts to lean more on these unfulfilled prophecies instead of leaning on the wisdom of the Lord.

Agreed:
We have His promises and for some that is just not enough. They got to fix the scriptures and most of us don’t even see ourselves doing it.

The Jews of old were looking for a King one that fit their ideas one that would rescue them.... Sounds like today O we will be raptured before tribulation etc....

He says His kingdom is not of this world ..... but we say he will reign in Jerusalem

Jesus' ministry seem to be long forgotten in our quest for an easy out.

 

[jasoncran]

I AM not saying that at present satan isnt plotting but to imply certain events that are happening must be pome art of the end times. such the nwo and cabal in order for the ac to come.

these prophecies are vague in some parts, and tis more productive to study the bible and do what the lord said we should be doing.

winning souls and making disciples and helping the poor.

its best to be balence neither totally futurist or preterist.

which is my position even though i am a pre-tribber.

i was merely thinking out loud.

but as vic said it best

we shouldnt lean on futurist prophecy solely as we must live day to day. if God felt that we needed to know exactly the who, what, where and end of it all. he would have said it clearly.

 

[Hitch]

futurists(some) use conspiracies theories and or also news to say that this prophecy is fulfilled without doing the reasearch to see what the bible says on the rise of the anti-christ and or the mark of the beast.

ie the perfect example the concept of the nwo. neither is that concept founded or debunked by the bible.

theres no verse that says or alludes to the concept of the new world order

only this that the whole world worships and follows the beast
along with the mark of the beast(again undefined what that is) and also the babylonian system

when said futurist do this and then that"prophecy" doesnt come to pass theres no whoops, and cease they move on to something else.

that isnt biblical to do that when the bible doesnt really say much on some things.

If I understand you I think the trouble can be found at the doorstep of modern futurism, namely Dallas Theological Seminay.

Historical-Grammatical Interpretation
Another important theological concept is the emphasis on what is referred to as the historical-grammatical method of interpretation. This is often popularly referred to as the "literal" interpretation of Scripture. Just as it is with progressive revelation, the historical-grammatical method is not a concept or practice that is exclusive to dispensationalists. However, a dispensational distinctive is created when the historical-grammatical method of interpretation is closely coupled with an emphasis on progressive revelation along with the historical development of the covenants in Scripture.

This seems fine on the face of it. But there is serious and far reaching error. The very system employed ; "plain, grammatical, literal ,historical' approach to prophecy interpretation is subjective. Plain and literal to one may not be to another. But what is more sisinter is when this template is place on the ancient scriptures. The Old Testement. As has been practiced for 150 years or so in DF circles. What is wrong with that idea? is a valid question , especially since it seems ,plain and simple. What is wrong with it is that this template is used on OT scriptures over and above apostolic revelation. The New Testement.
I reckon this rebellion against apostolic authority leads quickly to all sorts of mischief. How can Pastor BillyBob, who interprets OT prophecy following his personal version of plain and literal, correct RayRay while RayRay is following his personal version of plain and literal.? The problem can never be solved because both have placed their own understanding and intellects over and above apostolic inspiration. The correct course is 180 degrees about, search first the apostles and follow their interpretations as well as possible.
Since the apostles have already been left behind (heh heh) there is no reason to expect some propehcy guru to stop and consider his failures. At the highsest level (DTS) there is no accouctability. The inevitable result of placing human understanding over divine revelation. This attracks and grants a platform to whom ever has a charasmatic style, and an abilty to locate an itch waiting to be scratched.

 

[jasoncran]

while i am not entirely sold on that, but i was just talking to a fellow believer and coworker who said i should let the spirit and listen to him. while true, most true, but i tried to tell him in truth the concept of the pre-trib(to wit , we both believe) wasnt around ere the 1800's

so then i stated what did the apostles believe? surely those guys were lead and taught by the spirit.

afterall alot of them wrote the bible and surely had some clue of what it says. He didnt want to hear that. if one says a is correct and quotes a verse and he says the spirit tells him this the truth, what of the guy so says the exact opposite and both are bible living by example and godly men.Is our God one of confusion? i understand that the end times isnt easy to 'decipher" but logically both cant be right.

 

[reba]

When the snake (scofield) puts words in-between the scriptures that are contrary to scripture you get confusion.


Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 

[jasoncran]

i dont have a scofield bible at all but a dake study bible and also two other kjv bibles

 

[reba]

Good for you Jason you dont need it.

 

[jasoncran]

Good for you Jason you dont need it.

honestly i dont see that version too often.