the book of revalation and newsensalationism

[Strangelove]

This seems fine on the face of it. But there is serious and far reaching error. The very system employed ; "plain, grammatical, literal ,historical' approach to prophecy interpretation is subjective. Plain and literal to one may not be to another. But what is more sisinter is when this template is place on the ancient scriptures. The Old Testement. As has been practiced for 150 years or so in DF circles. What is wrong with that idea? is a valid question , especially since it seems ,plain and simple. What is wrong with it is that this template is used on OT scriptures over and above apostolic revelation. The New Testement.
I reckon this rebellion against apostolic authority leads quickly to all sorts of mischief. How can Pastor BillyBob, who interprets OT prophecy following his personal version of plain and literal, correct RayRay while RayRay is following his personal version of plain and literal.? The problem can never be solved because both have placed their own understanding and intellects over and above apostolic inspiration. The correct course is 180 degrees about, search first the apostles and follow their interpretations as well as possible.
Since the apostles have already been left behind (heh heh) there is no reason to expect some propehcy guru to stop and consider his failures. At the highsest level (DTS) there is no accouctability. The inevitable result of placing human understanding over divine revelation. This attracks and grants a platform to whom ever has a charasmatic style, and an abilty to locate an itch waiting to be scratched.

Agreed. Zech 14 prime example. Jesus and the Apostles are silent on the verses. Millenialists are sold on the idea these verses describe Jesus touching down on Earth at the 2nd advent and starting His blissful 1000 year reign.

 

[Strangelove]

I AM not saying that at present satan isnt plotting but to imply certain events that are happening must be pome art of the end times. such the nwo and cabal in order for the ac to come.

these prophecies are vague in some parts, and tis more productive to study the bible and do what the lord said we should be doing.

Uhm...no, this is how it happened:

1) Me and others bring forward information about the NWO and government terrorism.
2) You fight it and say its not true.
3) Me and others bring forward IRREFUTABLE documentation that proves the NWO / One world government exists and simply note that Revelation states that all the Kings of the Earth will fornicate with the Whore. Which indicates some kind of complicity and obediance to a higher power, lining up with REALITY.
4) You change tack and instead of addressing the data, you attempt to discredit the info by saying that we are foolish for desperately trying to see prophecy fulfilled, which is clearly not our position at all, we are mainly looking at reality.

You are transparent Sarge.

 

[Adstar]

futurists(some) use conspiracies theories and or also news to say that this prophecy is fulfilled without doing the reasearch to see what the bible says on the rise of the anti-christ and or the mark of the beast.

ie the perfect example the concept of the nwo. neither is that concept founded or debunked by the bible.

theres no verse that says or alludes to the concept of the new world order

only this that the whole world worships and follows the beast
along with the mark of the beast(again undefined what that is) and also the babylonian system

when said futurist do this and then that"prophecy" doesnt come to pass theres no whoops, and cease they move on to something else.

that isnt biblical to do that when the bible doesnt really say much on some things.

As far as i know all the people i have seen saying things about the NWO in relation to the Beast/son of perdition is that the NWO is a movement working towards the establishment of the beast system. They don't actually say that it is the fulfilment of it. Well as afar as i have read anyway.


As far as i know the varying organization seeking one world government are still working towards it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

I get the feeling that those most against people giving world examples of events as prophecy fulfilled are those that once where sold on someone else pointing at world events years ago as prophecy fulfilled and then seeing history prove the interpretation wrong.

Once bitten twice shy.

Some times the one making the observation did proclaim that the event would happen and such and such was going to be a definite fulfilment of prophecy. So in that instance hurt and a sense of betrayal is understandable.

But on other occasions the one giving the information never makes the claim that it is definitely a fulfilment of prophecy, but that they suspected it or it looked like it. People them get carried away because they want the prophecy to be true, and the messengers maybe becomes a definitely.

Just because people have cried wolf ,wolf, wolf down through the ages and more so today does not mean we say all modern messages about possible prophecy fulfilment must be cries of wolf. You know what happened in the parable of the boy who cried wolf don't you? The time when the wolf actually arrived no one believed his cry and the wolf killed him.

I take all observations about the modern world happenings that may be signs of the end times seriously. But i do not buy them hook line and sinker. Don't get despondent and ultra negative if something does not turn out the way you believed it would.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[jasoncran]

I get the feeling that those most against people giving world examples of events as prophecy fulfilled are those that once where sold on someone else pointing at world events years ago as prophecy fulfilled and then seeing history prove the interpretation wrong.

Once bitten twice shy.

Some times the one making the observation did proclaim that the event would happen and such and such was going to be a definite fulfilment of prophecy. So in that instance hurt and a sense of betrayal is understandable.

But on other occasions the one giving the information never makes the claim that it is definitely a fulfilment of prophecy, but that they suspected it or it looked like it. People them get carried away because they want the prophecy to be true, and the messengers maybe becomes a definitely.

Just because people have cried wolf ,wolf, wolf down through the ages and more so today does not mean we say all modern messages about possible prophecy fulfilment must be cries of wolf. You know what happened in the parable of the boy who cried wolf don't you? The time when the wolf actually arrived no one believed his cry and the wolf killed him.

I take all observations about the modern world happenings that may be signs of the end times seriously. But i do not buy them hook line and sinker. Don't get despondent and ultra negative if something does not turn out the way you believed it would.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

i'am not saying that at all but when some here take the news as gospel truth and at least see that they might not be on to something at all but rather way off.

conspiracies arent gospel truth

for example the nwo

in history
the beast could be these
the spanish empire
the french empire
the brittish empire
all of them had christian faiths when the went a conquering
yet.. he we are. some have said we shouldnt try to stop the evil if said evil is happening and that its too late.

where's that in the bible.

 

[jasoncran]

Uhm...no, this is how it happened:

1) Me and others bring forward information about the NWO and government terrorism.
2) You fight it and say its not true.
3) Me and others bring forward IRREFUTABLE documentation that proves the NWO / One world government exists and simply note that Revelation states that all the Kings of the Earth will fornicate with the Whore. Which indicates some kind of complicity and obediance to a higher power, lining up with REALITY.
4) You change tack and instead of addressing the data, you attempt to discredit the info by saying that we are foolish for desperately trying to see prophecy fulfilled, which is clearly not our position at all, we are mainly looking at reality.

You are transparent Sarge.

really?sources where they there when these so called irrefutable came out? can you honestly say in a court of law that if you were the one being charge with the crimes that theres no need for a jury.

would your case hold up in a court of law.?

what are the signs and wonders that you speak of?

the beast is worshipped as it performs signs and wonders

name them.

it has to be supernatural ones.

 

[Adstar]

i'am not saying that at all but when some here take the news as gospel truth and at least see that they might not be on to something at all but rather way off.

conspiracies arent gospel truth

for example the nwo

in history
the beast could be these
the spanish empire
the french empire
the brittish empire
all of them had christian faiths when the went a conquering

Well most of them examples can be dismissed because they did not fulfil all the prophecies. But some people in the past who where looking for signs of the end times would have been justified in bringing actions of these empires to believers as possible fulfilment of Prophecy. As long as they did not proclaim themselves to be prophets and there interpretations where infallible.

yet.. he we are. some have said we shouldnt try to stop the evil if said evil is happening and that its too late.

where's that in the bible.

? Not sure what your talking about here.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[jasoncran]

Well most of them examples can be dismissed because they did not fulfil all the prophecies. But some people in the past who where looking for signs of the end times would have been justified in bringing actions of these empires to believers as possible fulfilment of Prophecy. As long as they did not proclaim themselves to be prophets and there interpretations where infallible.



? Not sure what your talking about here.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

the problem here is that strangelove and bazz1040 have said they cant do anything or we all cant to stop the cabal that rules all men.

and yet they say there arent sure that the end is that close, so we let evil reign??

we dont protest, vote those guys out,.pettetion the u.n. to intervene, just sit back and talk about that

i'm glad these men didnt sit back

mlk
wilberforce
luther(though he cause some problems)
johnathan edwards
the amercian abolinist movements

women
anthony
staton

all them faced tremendous odds some didnt live to see their influence but they changed the world. and many of them were believers.

doesnt it say that the dragon makes war with the believers first then the beast shows up?

 

[Strangelove]

really?sources where they there when these so called irrefutable came out? can you honestly say in a court of law that if you were the one being charge with the crimes that theres no need for a jury.

would your case hold up in a court of law.?

The irrefutable documentation is in this thread:

New World Order

You have never addressed ANY of the REAL WORLD evidence of the NWO. All you can do is continue playing decoy. Address the data.

what are the signs and wonders that you speak of?

the beast is worshipped as it performs signs and wonders

name them.

it has to be supernatural ones.

PROJECT BLUEBEAM is one example of FALSE signs and wonders. Stop pretending that I've never mentioned it before!

[video=youtube;yvOIJRUtzWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvOIJRUtzWg&feature=related[/video]

Parts 2 and 3 to be found on youtube.

 

[jasoncran]

so then we arent there many christian here that buy that????????????????

lol., holograms.

that it and theres no christians here that are scientists who can check and see if that isnt a miracles

that isnt SUPERNATURAL.

the signs and wonders must be supernatural.

holograms have been around for ten yrs.

that is condition i laid before you.

revalation 13:12-14

12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

if its doable by men that it aint a miracle is it? and before that is happening the saints is the govt themselves all over the world killing the saints?

the dragon is making war with the saints is he not?

what religion is killing more saints then them all, islam

 

[Strangelove]

the problem here is that strangelove and bazz1040 have said they cant do anything or we all cant to stop the cabal that rules all men.

and yet they say there arent sure that the end is that close, so we let evil reign??

we dont protest, vote those guys out,.pettetion the u.n. to intervene, just sit back and talk about that

i'm glad these men didnt sit back

mlk
wilberforce
luther(though he cause some problems)
johnathan edwards
the amercian abolinist movements

women
anthony
staton

all them faced tremendous odds some didnt live to see their influence but they changed the world. and many of them were believers.

doesnt it say that the dragon makes war with the believers first then the beast shows up?

If you feel led to change the world then GO AHEAD. I'll do my bit you do yours.

Step 1 - Overcome denial of reality

 

[jasoncran]

if you notice the word for miracle, has no false in front of it
and with torch heart you never addressed her point she mentioned that if the cabal was so powerful why then are we allowed to even know.

i know of people that have witness murders and were told to keep quiet or they too will die.
odd that if a group is going do that on large scale or other criminal act that they would hush those that leak the info.or kill them.

you would agree that in job satan can control nature and also cause illness thus he has some power. when the lord allows him to do that

btw your theory has holes that is why i dont buy it at all.

 

[Strangelove]

so then we arent there many christian here that buy that????????????????

lol., holograms.

that it and theres no christians here that are scientists who can check and see if that isnt a miracles

that isnt SUPERNATURAL.

the signs and wonders must be supernatural.

holograms have been around for ten yrs.

that is condition i laid before you.

revalation 13:12-14

12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

if its doable by men that it aint a miracle is it? and before that is happening the saints is the govt themselves all over the world killing the saints?

the dragon is making war with the saints is he not?

what religion is killing more saints then them all, islam

Who says they need to be supernatural wonders? They are LYING WONDERS. Thats FAKE miracles.

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be
saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had
pleasure in unrighteousness.

You can BUY IT or you can leave it but the difference will be those who love the truth and those who BUY THE LIE.​

 

[jasoncran]

If you feel led to change the world then GO AHEAD. I'll do my bit you do yours.

Step 1 - Overcome denial of reality

really, i have and will continue what i can

google what the manhattan declaration is, i signed it and if i must go to jail for not violating my conscience i will but it hasnt come to that.

really?
your proof lacks

would you let me execute you for those crimes if thats all i had on you? hearsay,

no chance to counterargue or refute my claims
just one shot to the head with the .22 remigton from a squad of sharp shooters.

you do believe in a court of law.
but i guess not since in your mind you have said these men are all guilty without allowing them to defend themselves or look to reasonable explanations

i even went to the bother in one 9-11 thread that original poster is now going to war in that country he claims we wrongly attacked voluntarily,to post a large amount of scientists and engineers who stake their reputation on the line as saying how it went down.

and some of them teach civil engineering.

 

[Strangelove]

if you notice the word for miracle, has no false in front of it

Cite the scripture.

and with torch heart you never addressed her point she mentioned that if the cabal was so powerful why then are we allowed to even know.

I addressed it. You are mistaken. Check the NWO thread

i know of people that have witness murders and were told to keep quiet or they too will die.
odd that if a group is going do that on large scale or other criminal act that they would hush those that leak the info.or kill them.

Whatever you say Sarge.

you would agree that in job satan can control nature and also cause illness thus he has some power. when the lord allows him to do that

Cite the scripture where Satan does that?

btw your theory has holes that is why i dont buy it at all.

And yet you cant show the holes. Address the data in the NWO thread instead of dancing around the facts.

 

[jasoncran]

problem

the priest of pharoah turned their rods into snakes and also the nile into blood

exodus 7:11

11Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

12For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.

13And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said


so who turned the rods of the magicians??

lying wonders doesnt mean that they cant be supernatural.

only that they are deceptive

for instance

necromancing
that spirit may tell you the truth about you, but its still a lying spirit as it will manipulate you into other things

that is my point.

 

[jasoncran]

Cite the scripture.



I addressed it. You are mistaken. Check the NWO thread



Whatever you say Sarge.



Cite the scripture where Satan does that?



And yet you cant show the holes. Address the data in the NWO thread instead of dancing around the facts.

14And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:

15And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

16While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

fire of God, does God cause storms on men that serve him????


and also

are you an engineer?..

no, you arent so until you can refute the engineers or convince me that you have some engineering capabilities which you dont , you merely parrot the alex jones and their so called experts

peer review does work otherwise much of what we see today in technology wouldnt be working.

you are also not a pilot, you dodged that one well.

 

[jasoncran]

so somehow these men can fool the world all the time and yet let you live?

odd, i have never seen any govt that efficient.

 

[zone]

The Rome Herald​

​

Jerusalem Sacked By Titus - City in Ashes​

By Special Reporter Kelly Blazenpants
The Rome Herald - Sep. 8th 70 A.D.​

The Jewish stronghold of Jerusalem was yesterday utterly sacked by Roman armies led by Emporer Titus following a lenghty siege of the city amid growing unrest in the region.

Tensions had been rising in the Middle East following a breakdown in negotiations between Rome and the Jews and reported terrorist activities in neighbouring countries. Last week Emporer Titus revealed at the annual meeting of the Brotherhood of the snake "Jerusalem is a known harbinger of terrorists that threaten the freedoms of those in the Roman Empire...and the entire world. They oppose democracy, they oppose liberty, and they refuse to pay their taxes!".

After the initial siege the Empires 3rd battalion overcame Jewish defences with ease. Emporer Titus after sending in special envoy Josephus with a failed attempt to negotiate with the terrorists, obliterated the walls of the city with latest technology battering rams that eventually started a huge inferno raging throughout Jerusalem including the temple complex. The entire city was destroyed and most occupants killed although some Jews made a daring escape through underground tunnels.

Bible adherents were today speculating that the entire seige and outcome was the fullfillment of scriptural prophecy regarding the Gospel account of Mark 13:

13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto
him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are
here!

13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great
buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall
not be thrown down.

A government representative responded "It's just sensationalism".

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Back page - Brutus agrees multi million denari deal to fight for the Gaul Braves in Super-Glad XXIII.

:waving:yes:biglol


these are ugly critters, but you deserve all of 'em Doc.
amazing work.

 

[zone]

If I understand you I think the trouble can be found at the doorstep of modern futurism, namely Dallas Theological Seminay.

...But what is more sisinter is when this template is place on the ancient scriptures. The Old Testement. As has been practiced for 150 years or so in DF circles. What is wrong with that idea? is a valid question , especially since it seems ,plain and simple. What is wrong with it is that this template is used on OT scriptures over and above apostolic revelation. The New Testement.
I reckon this rebellion against apostolic authority leads quickly to all sorts of mischief....

Since the apostles have already been left behind (heh heh) there is no reason to expect some propehcy guru to stop and consider his failures. At the highsest level (DTS) there is no accouctability. The inevitable result of placing human understanding over divine revelation. This attracks and grants a platform to whom ever has a charasmatic style, and an abilty to locate an itch waiting to be scratched.

hi!:waving

love your posts!

Freemasons and The Jesus Seminar in the
SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION
Lamentation is often heard concerning the apostate condition of the Southern Baptist Convention. However, there seems to be a good reason for the choice of paths which the SBC is traveling, namely important statistics regarding the membership of Freemasons in the SBC.​

Freemasons and The Jesus Seminar in the SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION