The burden of proof

[r3alink]

Ok so you christians say bible god has to be an invisible spirit who lives in the hearts of all his believers, you also say he intercedes on occasions testing mankind to weed out who is the tare's and the wheat. So in your mind bible god is careful not to reveal his presence or he would screw up his plain of salvation. But then when you are confronted by the burden of proof you are quick to point out the order and design of the universe as absolute proof of bible god.

But may I ask,

What specifics does the bible actually show and demonstrate, that's evident that it is bible god who designed all we see in our known universe.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Ok so you christians say bible god has to be an invisible spirit who lives in the hearts of all his believers, you also say he intercedes on occasions testing mankind to weed out who is the tare's and the wheat. So in your mind bible god is careful not to reveal his presence or he would screw up his plain of salvation. But then when you are confronted by the burden of proof you are quick to point out the order and design of the universe as absolute proof of bible god.

But may I ask,

What specifics does the bible actually show and demonstrate that's evident that it is bible god who designed all we see in our known universe.

The answers you seek are all in the bible. The old testament gives you many of the details you are wanting about the powers of God and creation of the heavens and the Earth.



What is "absolute proof"? If I come on television and say the universe is 13 billion years old and you are made from stardust does that make it true?


Its a trust issue. Do you trust man or the bible? Unsaved people want to trust the world. The world makes you feel like you are gonna find a secret treasure or a watch just a certain video and BAM! you know the truth...case closed.....the bible is not true. Because someone says they found a clay tablet in Sumeria it must be the truth and not the bible.

Thing is though.... According to the world this is all meaningless.....it all came together randomly and means nothing. IF that is true? Then when I die I lose nothing. However IF the bible is true? That means I die and lose everything.


Life is precious.........it cannot be made in a garage with your hands. All life comes from other life and who created that life? A single flower contains more resolution and complexity in its makeup then the most advanced computer in the world.

 

[smaller]

Ok so you christians say bible god has to be an invisible spirit who lives in the hearts of all his believers, you also say he intercedes on occasions testing mankind to weed out who is the tare's and the wheat.So in your mind bible god is careful not to reveal his presence or he would screw up his plain of salvation. But then when you are confronted by the burden of proof you are quick to point out the order and design of the universe as absolute proof of bible god.

If you are not a christian such guesswork on your part may represent some views, but an unbelievers views above would not be one of them.

But may I ask,

What specifics does the bible actually show and demonstrate, that's evident that it is bible god who designed all we see in our known universe.

The testimony of the LAW has already been placed within you and within all people.

It's the knowledge of RIGHT and WRONG born by our inner man, in our conscience.

Right and wrong already is testified to you internally, and this is a DIVINE PLACEMENT in everyone.

These are internal concepts that extend beyond the reach of science and the external.

 

[r3alink]

The answers you seek are all in the bible. The old testament gives you many of the details you are wanting about the powers of God and creation of the heavens and the Earth.



What is "absolute proof"? If I come on television and say the universe is 13 billion years old and you are made from stardust does that make it true?


Its a trust issue. Do you trust man or the bible? Unsaved people want to trust the world. The world makes you feel like you are gonna find a secret treasure or a watch just a certain video and BAM! you know the truth...case closed.....the bible is not true. Because someone says they found a clay tablet in Sumeria it must be the truth and not the bible.

Thing is though.... According to the world this is all meaningless.....it all came together randomly and means nothing. IF that is true? Then when I die I lose nothing. However IF the bible is true? That means I die and lose everything.


Life is precious.........it cannot be made in a garage with your hands. All life comes from other life and who created that life? A single flower contains more resolution and complexity in its makeup then the most advanced computer in the world.

Thankyou for your reply.

 

[By Grace]

What specifics does the bible actually show and demonstrate, that's evident that it is bible god who designed all we see in our known universe.

Chapter 19
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
​

.
THAT above is your answer, but in all honesty, and I am not being antagonistic in saying this, The tone of your OP, gives me the impression that you will not accept that Scripture.

 

[r3alink]

If you are not a christian such guesswork on your part may represent some views, but an unbelievers views above would not be one of them.



The testimony of the LAW has already been placed within you and within all people.

It's the knowledge of RIGHT and WRONG born by our inner man, in our conscience.

Right and wrong already is testified to you internally, and this is a DIVINE PLACEMENT in everyone.

These are internal concepts that extend beyond the reach of science and the external.

I dont think I can count gods law as one of the specific of our universe, because following some of these old testement laws today would end up being be a quick ambulance ride to a psych ward or jailed for life.

 

[smaller]

I dont think I can count gods law as one of the specific of our universe, because following some of these old testement laws today would end up being be a quick ambulance ride to a psych ward or jailed for life.

Again, what you think you may see or don't see is irrelevant to the fact, yes fact, that you already have right and wrong testified to you INTERNALLY by your own conscience.

I don't really care how you view the scriptures. The Law of right and wrong is already WITHIN you whether you like it or not.

And when you violate your internal conscience, by doing wrong when you know right, you also sense CONVICTION.

Any child can testify to this when they steal a piece of candy and they KNOW it's wrong to steal.

They didn't need the scriptures to tell them what their conscience already told them. Never a word was spoken.

 

[r3alink]

Chapter 19
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
​

.
THAT above is your answer, but in all honesty, and I am not being antagonistic in saying this, The tone of your OP, gives me the impression that you will not accept that Scripture.

Well im not sure what any of thats saying, can you explain how those verses reveal the nature of the universe.

Thakyou by grace.

 

[By Grace]

r3alink said: ↑
What specifics does the bible actually show and demonstrate, that's evident that it is bible god who designed all we see in our known universe.

Well im not sure what any of thats saying, can you explain how those verses reveal the nature of the universe.

Thakyou by grace.

The first verse summarizes your question. The following verses explain the details of verse 1.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
"firmament" is the earth, and all that it is in it
"sheweth" is an old way of saying "shows"
"handiwork" means all that God created: thus evolution is ruled out. The amazing thing about that is that the psalm was written c. 900 BC.

 

[r3alink]

Again, what you think you may see or don't see is irrelevant to the fact, yes fact, that you already have right and wrong testified to you INTERNALLY by your own conscience.

I don't really care how you view the scriptures. The Law of right and wrong is already WITHIN you whether you like it or not.

And when you violate your internal conscience, by doing wrong when you know right, you also sense CONVICTION.

Any child can testify to this when they steal a piece of candy and they KNOW it's wrong to steal.

They didn't need the scriptures to tell them what their conscience already told them. Never a word was spoken.

But my conscience led me to rejecting all religious faiths, do you think thats the devil?

 

[Kathi]

Ok so you christians say bible god has to be an invisible spirit who lives in the hearts of all his believers, you also say he intercedes on occasions testing mankind to weed out who is the tare's and the wheat. So in your mind bible god is careful not to reveal his presence or he would screw up his plain of salvation. But then when you are confronted by the burden of proof you are quick to point out the order and design of the universe as absolute proof of bible god.

But may I ask,

What specifics does the bible actually show and demonstrate, that's evident that it is bible god who designed all we see in our known universe.

We do not believe by sight as Christians but by faith.

 

[r3alink]

The first verse summarizes your question. The following verses explain the details of verse 1.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
"firmament" is the earth, and all that it is in it
"sheweth" is an old way of saying "shows"
"handiwork" means all that God created: thus evolution is ruled out. The amazing thing about that is that the psalm was written c. 900 BC.

Umm ok.

 

[r3alink]

We do not believe by sight as Christians but by faith.

Yeah I know that, thats painfully obvious.

 

[smaller]

But my conscience led me to rejecting all religious faiths, do you think thats the devil?

I think any person can do right and every person violates their own internal conscience with regrets when they do EVIL. That is what 'we' call SIN. If you have tasted regret for violating your conscience by doing EVIL, then you know SIN.

And such violations can lead to a hardening of a good conscience over time as well. So it is something that we guard OR we become slaves to the fact of our evil conscience.

What you may think about any religion is again quite immaterial to what you already internally know to be facts without me or anyone else having to tell you anything. The only person that has to deal with your internal conscience is YOU as you are the only one who knows, at least in your eyes.

 

[Malachi]

Well im not sure what any of thats saying, can you explain how those verses reveal the nature of the universe.

When you read that Psalm, what it is saying is that by taking a close look at God's creation you will come to the conclusion that none of that could have come about by accident.

Therefore there is a Creator who made everything in nature. The next question which arises is "Has the Creator revealed Himself to mankind?" And the answer is "Yes, He has revealed Himself in the Lord Jesus Christ". And Christ is revealed in the Holy Bible.

 

[r3alink]

I think any person can do right and every person violates their own internal conscience with regrets when they do EVIL. That is what 'we' call SIN. If you have tasted regret for violating your conscience by doing EVIL, then you know SIN.

And such violations can lead to a hardening of a good conscience over time as well. So it is something that we guard OR we become slaves to the fact of our evil conscience.

What you may think about any religion is again quite immaterial to what you already internally know to be facts without me or anyone else having to tell you anything. The only person that has to deal with your internal conscience is YOU as you are the only one who knows, at least in your eyes.

What are you saying, that gods law is mans conscience. But not the whole law right?

 

[r3alink]

When you read that Psalm, what it is saying is that by taking a close look at God's creation you will come to the conclusion that none of that could have come about by accident.

Therefore there is a Creator who made everything in nature. The next question which arises is "Has the Creator revealed Himself to mankind?" And the answer is "Yes, He has revealed Himself in the Lord Jesus Christ". And Christ is revealed in the Holy Bible.

And thats what Im asking people to comment about, and you did.

Thanks.

 

[Kathi]

Yeah I know that, thats painfully obvious.

So you are not a believer in Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God?I am thinking you hope you are right.

 

[smaller]

What are you saying, that gods law is mans conscience. But not the whole law right?

The notion of good and evil is written within the heart of every person and placed within, we believe, by God Himself.

It's not an accident. Such matters were not placed within you by any person. You came into this world with your conscience already intact with RIGHT and WRONG in your own conscience.

Romans 2:
14 For when the Gentiles [this would be YOU], which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

What is within you is what will stand before your Maker when you depart.

And such thoughts WILL BEAR witness, even as they bear you witness now.

 

[r3alink]

So you are not a believer in Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God?I am thinking you hope you are right.

Do I dare say I was a christian for many years or does my lack of faith now disqualify me from understanding your faith now.