The Calling of the 144,000

[guysmith]

The calling of the 144,000

Christ instructs us to watch and pray that we might be able to escape the coming Tribulation period and be found standing with Him.

Luke 21:36
36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

In the end, the only ones the Bible identifies as standing with Christ is the group known as the 144,000.

Revelation 14
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

Being alive at the second coming of Christ is the calling of the 144,000 and the purpose of Bible prophecy.

Now, few people think of themselves as one of the 144,000 and no one really knows if they are one. However, if you are alive at the advent of Christ, then you will be one of this "elect" group.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Shilohsfoal]

"guysmith"
Now, few people think of themselves as one of the 144,000 and no one really knows if they are one. However, if you are alive at the advent of Christ, then you will be one of this "elect" group.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Why do you believe you have to be one of these 144,000 to be alive when Jesus returns?
Couldnt I be one of these or are these not good enough to be alive?
Rev 7;9
After this I beheld,and lo,a great multitude,which no man could number,of all nations,kindreds,and people,and tongues,stood before the throne,and before the Lamb,clothed with white robes,and palms in thier hands;

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by guysmith
Christ instructs us to watch and pray that we might be able to escape the coming Tribulation period and be found standing with Him.

You don’t mean "physically escape" the Tribulation; do you? Whether you're one of the 144,000; or one of the numberless multitude harvested (sealed) later on (or anyone alive for that matter), you will be present during the Tribulation, so be prepared. What do you think the whole purpose of the 144,000 is; to fly away? No! Their job is to proclaim the Everlasting Gospel DURING the Tribulation! Where do you think the rest of "the harvest" comes from? If you are implying there will be a pre-tribulation "rapture", then you have fallen for one of the greatest scams of all time, and verify that you have not actually read your Bible. You are in danger of worshipping the wrong messiah. When confused and amazed Christians who are eagerly anticipating a pre-tribulation rapture see the glorious appearing of the devil, and hear him quoting texts from the Bible and fulfilling them right before their eyes, they will believe that he is Jesus! When the Jews see the devil's glorious appearing, they will receive him as the anticipated Messiah. When the Muslims see the glorious appearing of the devil, attended by million of his minions (fallen angels) they will believe the promised "deliverer" has arrived. The greatest deception ever is about to occur and few Christians have a clue. The devil will expertly use the Bible and the Qur’an (and other holy writings) to prove that he is God. Here, get a head start on him so you are not duped:

Now we beseech you, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4)

Jesus isn't coming until the man of sin pretending to be Almighty God is revealed; period! So stop listening to a bunch of shysters and read the Bible thoroughly on your own!

 

[guysmith]

Hello Shilohsfoal,

You stated: Why do you believe you have to be one of these 144,000 to be alive when Jesus returns?

My response: At the opening of the fifth seal, a plague is poured out which will affect everyone except the 144,000 which have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Revelation 9
1The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

If there were any Christians alive (other than the 144,000) then those Christians would also be affected by this plague. Conclusion: All other Christians have to have been martyred.

You stated: Couldnt I be one of these or are these not good enough to be alive?

My response: That all depends. However, yes, you could be one.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[guysmith]

Hello O,

You stated: You don’t mean "physically escape" the Tribulation; do you?

My response: Yes I do. And I don't mean the pre-trib rapture. The Bible identified Noah and his family as the only survivors of the flood. So, do you think that God wouldn't Identify the only survivors to "physically escape" the GT?

BTW, I agree, there is no pre-trib rapture.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Benoni]

There is no Great Tribulation.

The number 144,000 is a spiritual number not a literal.

 

[Cornelius]

There is no Great Tribulation.

The number 144,000 is a spiritual number not a literal.

I must admit, that I do not know how to even start answering you on this statement.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by guysmith

BTW, I agree, there is no pre-trib rapture.

That's good (sorry, the subject gets me a little anxious). I'll leave the post anyway for others who believe in that teaching.

Originally posted by Cornelius

[quote:2y9x19tz]Originally posted by Benoni
There is no Great Tribulation.

The number 144,000 is a spiritual number not a literal.

I must admit, that I do not know how to even start answering you on this statement.[/quote:2y9x19tz]

LOL

Not enough time in a day :D.

Benoni, do the "numberless multitude" represent a spiritual number as well? Why are the 144,000 "numbered" yet the harvest that follows "cannot be numbered"? If the 144,000 were symbolic, God would define the symbol; no? I would prefer an answer that can be documented from Scripture rather than an over-spiritualized opinion.

 

[Benoni]

I did a debate with a Muslin over a year of go and after watching this Muslin debate our fellow brothers in the Lord; and I will admit the Muslin seemed to be winning the debate.

I then asked the Muslin what makes the Quran divine. He could not give me an answer. I then asked our fellow Christians the same question and they like the Muslin could not answer the question.

Then I told the Muslin about spiritual numbers and patterns and example that are written all thought out the Bible in especially Revelation. Of course the Muslin came back with what we call Bible codes for his Quran, and I explained to him this was not was I was speaking about. You can use those codes in any book and get what ever answer you want. You see the Quran does not have these numbers so he pretty much gave up the debate. Neither does the Book of Mormon; but the Bible does and when I see the number twelve I see divine government.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture

The spiritual number Twelve = Divine Government [12 Tribes, 12 Disciples, 12 apostles, 12 Gates of Jerusalem, Revelation 14 and or 144 (12x12=144) 12 is the perfect number, representing Devine perfection in the government in the kingdom of God Deliverance [Gideon's


It is the Glory of God to conceal a thing. It is the honor of Kings to search out a matter.

LOL

Not enough time in a day .

Benoni, do the "numberless multitude" represent a spiritual number as well? Why are the 144,000 "numbered" yet the harvest that follows "cannot be numbered"? If the 144,000 were symbolic, God would define the symbol; no? I would prefer an answer that can be documented from Scripture rather than an over-spiritualized opinion.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Benoni

The spiritual number Twelve = Divine Government [12 Tribes, 12 Disciples, 12 apostles, 12 Gates of Jerusalem, Revelation 14 and or 144 (12x12=144) 12 is the perfect number, representing Devine perfection in the government in the kingdom of God Deliverance

I do have to agree that the number twelve denotes Divine (or divine governmental) perfection. God even instilled this within nature itself, such as the annual cycle of twelve "signs" along the ecliptic (zodiac), and the twelve months (moons) of the year. However, because the number twelve "symbolizes" divine perfection, that does not mean that the NUMBER is not specifically what God says it is. The twelve Apostles, twelve tribes, twelve spies, twelve fruits, twelve angels, twelve foundations, and twelve gates "symbolize" divine (governmental) perfection, but there are still literally "twelve" of each in number. The twelve Apostles "symbolized" God’s government, but there were still "actually" twelve of them. The 144,000 "symbolize" divine perfection, but there are still "actually" 144,000 of them. You're breaking the consistency of Biblical interpretation. Just because this is mentioned in Revelation, doesn't mean a literal number becomes "spiritualized". Just as there were literally twelve disciples, there will be literally 144,000 firstfruits, even though "the number" is symbolic.

 

[Benoni]

I do have to agree that the number twelve denotes Divine (or divine governmental) perfection. God even instilled this within nature itself, such as the annual cycle of twelve "signs" along the ecliptic (zodiac), and the twelve months (moons) of the year. However, because the number twelve "symbolizes" divine perfection, that does not mean that the NUMBER is not specifically what God says it is. The twelve Apostles, twelve tribes, twelve spies, twelve fruits, twelve angels, twelve foundations, and twelve gates "symbolize" divine (governmental) perfection, but there are still literally "twelve" of each in number. The twelve Apostles "symbolized" God’s government, but there were still "actually" twelve of them. The 144,000 "symbolize" divine perfection, but there are still "actually" 144,000 of them. You're breaking the consistency of Biblical interpretation. Just because this is mentioned in Revelation, doesn't mean a literal number becomes "spiritualized". Just as there were literally twelve disciples, there will be literally 144,000 firstfruits, even though "the number" is symbolic.

At least I am dealing with a spiritual man who is not afraid to think out side the box for once, how refreshing.

A sign or symbolism points to something; take a barber pole. It tells you of a literal place to get a hair cut. The barber pole is literal; but if you were from; let say Korea the barber pole would be a hidden message to you until someone would reveal this is where we get a hair cut and the barber pole is nothing but a sign that reveals to all that know it.

I believe much that is written in the Bible is hidden and spiritual; this is essecially ten times more true in the Book of Revelation, the most spiritual book in the WHOLE Bible; .

Revelations 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

This one little word is so reverent to the whole book Revelations; ‘signified†or signs and symbols. The Book Revelations can only be understood not as a book of literal prophecy, or literally; but as a very deep and awesome spiritual book by using signs and symbols that can only be found in the Bible.

Where do you get the hidden spiritual message for these signs? God's Word.


John was in Spirit on the Lord’s Day; this makes the Revelation a spiritual book; not literal, not carnal, not prophetic. Revelation or the unveiling of Jesus Christ; it is the most spiritual Book in all the Bible; and I always put Genesis in second place. It is a book full of hidden spiritual symbolisms and for those who have the spiritual eyes or ears to see or hear it.

Funny how you mention the zodiac which is so scriptural but so many reject even the very thought of the twelve Zodiac sign and call it demonic; on the contrary it is scriptural.

The 144,000 "symbolize" divine perfection, but there are still "actually" 144,000 of them.

I do not know? What matters is His will being done on earth.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Hello Shilohsfoal,

You stated: Why do you believe you have to be one of these 144,000 to be alive when Jesus returns?

My response: At the opening of the fifth seal, a plague is poured out which will affect everyone except the 144,000 which have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Revelation 9
1The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

If there were any Christians alive (other than the 144,000) then those Christians would also be affected by this plague. Conclusion: All other Christians have to have been martyred.

You stated: Couldnt I be one of these or are these not good enough to be alive?

My response: That all depends. However, yes, you could be one.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Guy I dont believe this is talking about the entire world here.

 

[Vic C.]

John was in Spirit on the Lord’s Day; this makes the Revelation a spiritual book; not literal, not carnal, not prophetic. Revelation or the unveiling of Jesus Christ; it is the most spiritual Book in all the Bible; and I always put Genesis in second place. It is a book full of hidden spiritual symbolisms and for those who have the spiritual eyes or ears to see or hear it.

There are some spiritual aspects in both writings for sure. What's hidden from us is not the result of a lack of spiritualism, but rather a lack of cultural understanding. Genesis is very poetic, but difficult for us to comprehend due to a lack of understanding the symbols that would be much clearer to those of the time of it's writing. The very same thing applies to Revelation. :yes

Funny how you mention the zodiac which is so scriptural but so many reject even the very thought of the twelve Zodiac sign and call it demonic; on the contrary it is scriptural.

There is merit to that rejection when we consider the link between the zodiac and it's use in astrology, which is not Biblical at all. Relying on astrology and the alignment of planets and stars over depending on an all powerful and sovereign Creator God is madness! It is demonic.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Vic C
There is merit to that rejection when we consider the link between the zodiac and it's use in astrology, which is not Biblical at all. Relying on astrology and the alignment of planets and stars over depending on an all powerful and sovereign Creator God is madness!

Agreed. I was speaking from an "astroNOMICAL" point of view (that's my profession), not an astroLOGICIAL point of view. Astrology is for the lost, but the science of astrophysics (astroNOMY) along with Christianity is a glorious combination. Highly recommended :D

 

[researcher]

The calling of the 144,000

Christ instructs us to watch and pray that we might be able to escape the coming Tribulation period and be found standing with Him.

Luke 21:36
36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

In the end, the only ones the Bible identifies as standing with Christ is the group known as the 144,000.

Revelation 14
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

Being alive at the second coming of Christ is the calling of the 144,000 and the purpose of Bible prophecy.

Now, few people think of themselves as one of the 144,000 and no one really knows if they are one. However, if you are alive at the advent of Christ, then you will be one of this "elect" group.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

The 144,000 firstfruits? Usually when I hear the word "first" I tend to think it must be the first of something.

Rev 14:4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.

Who were the first people to believe? Israelites! :o :P

In Israel
Joh 7:31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?

Joh 11:45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

Uh oh, Jewish/Israeli firstfruits!

Other firstfruits that came... first?

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Maybe John meant the "lastfruits." The firstfruits were... first. Lol. ;) :D

First - Merriam Webster's
- preceding all others in time, order, or importance:

 

[Benoni]

There is merit to that rejection when we consider the link between the zodiac and it's use in astrology, which is not Biblical at all. Relying on astrology and the alignment of planets and stars over depending on an all powerful and sovereign Creator God is madness! It is demonic.

Did anyone say anything about man’s interpretation in astrology or alignment of planets and stars?

I was speaking of the Zodiac.

Who created the stars?

Who put them in there place in the heavens?

Job 38:32 where Yahweh asks His upright servant, "Canst thou bring forth MAZZA-ROTH in his season?" Mazzaroth is a Hebrew word which means THE CONSTELLATIONS OF THE ZODIAC

 

[Benoni]

There are some spiritual aspects in both writings for sure. What's hidden from us is not the result of a lack of spiritualism, but rather a lack of cultural understanding. Genesis is very poetic, but difficult for us to comprehend due to a lack of understanding the symbols that would be much clearer to those of the time of it's writing. The very same thing applies to Revelation

I disagree about Revelation; all these symbols are written in God's Word; problem is religious man literalize, or Caranlizes this very spiritual Book. Yes culture has its factor, so does language; the main problem is preconceived bias.

 

[guysmith]

Hello researcher,

You stated: The 144,000 firstfruits? Usually when I hear the word "first" I tend to think it must be the first of something.

Ny response: Matthew 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last." So what are the implications of this statement?

1 Thes: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, as firstfroits, the 144,000 ( which will be alive at the advent of Christ) will be changed "last" after the dead in Christ are raised "first."

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[researcher]

Hello researcher,

You stated: The 144,000 firstfruits? Usually when I hear the word "first" I tend to think it must be the first of something.

Ny response: Matthew 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last." So what are the implications of this statement?

1 Thes: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, as firstfroits, the 144,000 ( which will be alive at the advent of Christ) will be changed "last" after the dead in Christ are raised "first."

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Or that is just a misapplied verse. Lol. ;) :D

Exo 23:19 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God.

Firstfruits: first in order of time.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Who were the firstfruits to the Lamb, i.e. Christ?

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

People who lived a long time ago. ;) :D

Of course on the backside..

Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

The above is a historical event. That being, Jerusalem, 70AD. ;)

 

[guysmith]

I believe that, just a God protected and fed Israel in the wilderness, God is going to protect and feed the 144,000 at a designated place-of-safety.

Rev 12: 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

And the hidden manna is what God is going to feed those that overcome.

Revelation 2:17
17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith