The Case for Early Marriage...

[handy]

Just for the record, if my daughter became pregnant, and if the father of the baby wanted to, then yes, we would let her marry and do whatever it took to help the marriage be as successful as possible.

However, given the fact that we don't allow our daughter to be alone with guys in the first place...probably ain't gonna happen.

 

[theLords]

Just for the record, if my daughter became pregnant, and if the father of the baby wanted to, then yes, we would let her marry and do whatever it took to help the marriage be as successful as possible.

However, given the fact that we don't allow our daughter to be alone with guys in the first place...probably ain't gonna happen.

You go girl

 

[jasoncran]

Just for the record, if my daughter became pregnant, and if the father of the baby wanted to, then yes, we would let her marry and do whatever it took to help the marriage be as successful as possible.

However, given the fact that we don't allow our daughter to be alone with guys in the first place...probably ain't gonna happen.

pokes, dora.

immaculate conception,lol

for the record my wife is older then me by 14 yrs.
i am 37 do the math.

 

[Sparkey]

I understand that starting out with financial security is ideal for marriage...

Or another way of thinking about it is that too many delay the expression of their God-blessed union until their bank accounts are full enough. Why put trust in the bank? Oh, it's because you're from Iowa... I see. (*wink*)

 

[Lewis]

Well the thing is children will find a way to do what they want, for instance, if they have a crush on a boy or girl, they will find a way to be with them. Now that has been the case for thousands of years.And the parents are the last to know.

 

[theLords]

Well the thing is children will find a way to do what they want, for instance, if they have a crush on a boy or girl, they will find a way to be with them. Now that has been the case for thousands of years.And the parents are the last to know.

This is why prayer is so crucial

 

[Lewis]

This is why prayer is so crucial

Sometimes you can pray all you want, and it still happens, and there is no denying that. And there are times that it won't happen.

 

[theLords]

Sometimes you can pray all you want, and it still happens, and there is no denying that. And there are times that it won't happen.

Everyone falls to sin, there is not one person that it does not touch. Being covered in prayer is still extremely important. It can make a big difference in one's life.

 

[handy]

In regards to kids sneaking out from under mom and dad's watchful eye in order to get some...yep, has been happening since time immemorial.

However, if we parents do as you stated Lewis, training our kids in biblical principles and as you stated, Lords, praying for them constantly, they will probably do as most godly kids do...wait.

I'm blessed with 12 nieces and nephews...out of the 12 only one is not a Christian. Of the other 11, only one "jumped the gun" and was pregnant when she married. The others, even though most were young when they married, didn't "jump the gun" but waited.

Teaching kids the expectations that both God and their parents have for them, and teaching them why those expectations are for the best, truly does have an impact on their decision making processes. Sure, there are going to be some kids that are going to be rebellious and make wrong choices no matter what teaching and training they receive (we have such a one in our family), but for the most part training up our children in the way they should go, keeping an eye on them and not allowing them to regularly place themselves in tempting situations, and not placing unrealistic expectations on them will generally result in a stable adult.

I think it's a lie and a big lie at that, to say that "all kids are going to do it". I didn't. Neither did most of my nieces and nephews. Nor have a lot of the younger kids that I know.

But, if we are telling kids who are in their late teens or early 20's that are in love with someone and want to marry that person that they should wait another 5-10 years before marrying, then I think too often we've set our children up for failure, for no particular reason other than it's now common in our society to wait until the late 20's early 30's to marry.

 

[handy]

Nor have a lot of the younger kids that I know.

Actually, I'm amending this: The kids that I know who are in their 20's, that have been raised in Christian homes and have been taught that God expects them to wait, for the most part waited until they were married.

However, the teens that I know, and I'm getting to know more and more of them as my daughter enters her teen years, don't seem to be waiting. It's like they just think that sexuality is so common and since marriage isn't something one does until one is "old" (to a teen 26-30 is quite old), it seems sort of crazy to them, this idea they should wait until they are old and married for sex.

 

[handy]

Dora, I have been remiss in failing to atone for my audacious, unacceptable blunder. I am so, so very sorry to have confused 1 random cow-tipping state with another. They both start with "I" and they're both one of those outpost states that are really afterthoughts when considering the 50 states that make up our nation. So, you understand my mistake, don't you? :p Now that we're all fine and cozy, I'll just say that I'd pick Iowa over Boise State in a game anywhere, whether on blue turf or green grass.

It's OK Mike, I understand...it's all that Diet Coke you drink that addles your brain. Drink some Pepsi, it will clear your head up a bit!

 

[Igor]

... they will probably do as most godly kids do...wait.

Just some food for thought, that's all. But in my experience as a trusted counselor to a lot of Godly people (Christian teens and young adults) over the years, a huge percentage of them didn't wait. But most of them will either avoid the subject with very tactful answers that don't really answer the question, or they will just lie and say they are waiting unless you can win their trust enough for them to talk honestly with you. (They even do this with each other!) They have had it drilled into their heads so strongly that sex outside of marriage is such an unforgivable sin that they honestly feel that they are now condemned to hell for doing it, and that there is not enough power in the sacrifice of Jesus to save them. Of course, the results of this drilling were not the intention of the well meaning drillers, but this is the result nonetheless. So they just can't bear to admit what they have done.

This is not to say that no one waits. Just that a awfully large percentage (in my experience) do not wait.

Of course, I suppose also that a lot has to do with the definition of "Godly". If the definition of a Godly person is one who waits until marriage, then I suppose you can say that none of those people were Godly, therefore those who are Godly wait. But that's just circular reasoning and not valid. If you compare people's actions to the whole word of God (instead of just focusing on one particular subject), you will probably find it very hard to even find one "Godly" person based on their actions alone.

A lot of damage has been done to many of God's fine children by putting so much of a guilt trip and so much pressure on them over this subject!

Ok, go ahead and flame on me now. But whatever your view on this subject, I'm just speaking the honest truth from very real observation.

 

[handy]

I'm not going to flame you for it Igor!!!

I really thing that the church, meaning us older Christian parents, need to think long and hard about what kind of pressure we are putting on our kids today.

I just cannot see it as valid to tell a kid that it is of the utmost importance to remain sexually pure, but also that they should wait until...(you provide all the necessities here, degree, good job, owning a home) so that they are waiting a good 10 to 15 years after sexuality hits for them to be married.

It just is so unreasonable, and I don't see any biblical principles for pushing marriage out for so long.

 

[Sparkey]

Just some food for thought, that's all. But in my experience as a trusted counselor to a lot of Godly people (Christian teens and young adults) over the years, a huge percentage of them didn't wait. But most of them will either avoid the subject with very tactful answers that don't really answer the question, or they will just lie and say they are waiting unless you can win their trust enough for them to talk honestly with you. (They even do this with each other!) They have had it drilled into their heads so strongly that sex outside of marriage is such an unforgivable sin that they honestly feel that they are now condemned to hell for doing it, and that there is not enough power in the sacrifice of Jesus to save them. Of course, the results of this drilling were not the intention of the well meaning drillers, but this is the result nonetheless. So they just can't bear to admit what they have done.

This is not to say that no one waits. Just that a awfully large percentage (in my experience) do not wait.

Of course, I suppose also that a lot has to do with the definition of "Godly". If the definition of a Godly person is one who waits until marriage, then I suppose you can say that none of those people were Godly, therefore those who are Godly wait. But that's just circular reasoning and not valid. If you compare people's actions to the whole word of God (instead of just focusing on one particular subject), you will probably find it very hard to even find one "Godly" person based on their actions alone.

A lot of damage has been done to many of God's fine children by putting so much of a guilt trip and so much pressure on them over this subject!

Ok, go ahead and flame on me now. But whatever your view on this subject, I'm just speaking the honest truth from very real observation.

There is no forgiveness without repentance. What? Shall the Grace of God be shown to be empty and vain?

By the way, this isn't meant as a 'flame' but if you think so? Let the truth be known. The Mercy of God has a purpose - and it isn't the perpetuation of sin.

 

[Igor]

There is no forgiveness without repentance. What? Shall the Grace of God be shown to be empty and vain?

No problem agreeing with you here. But when I used the term "drilled into their heads" I'm not talking about unconfessed or continuative sin. I am trying to communicate what I think is a huge over emphasis on what our society considers sexual sin compared to relatively little emphasis on many other sins, while at the same time we are telling them they have to wait for what, to a 15 or 20 year old, seems like an eternity for the only alternative that mainstream Christian teaching offers them. Many teens have also been led to believe, either on purpose as a scare tactic or unintentionally, that sexual sin is unforgivable. I agree with Handy that trying to make them wait for marriage until so late in life may not be a realistic approach, even considering all the (seemingly) good reasons we can come up with to support it.

But the actual point of my post is that there are far more Christians having sex outside of marriage than many of us realize. Just because they cover it up and don't openly admit it, doesn't mean it's not so! This fact is to support the idea that if we ask them not to have sex outside of marriage, it is unrealistic to also ask them to wait until they are middle aged to allow themselves to actually get married.

By the way, this isn't meant as a 'flame' but if you think so? Let the truth be known.

Not sure what you meant by this... I didn't take it as a flame!

The Mercy of God has a purpose - and it isn't the perpetuation of sin.

Completely agreed here too.

 

[Adstar]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->The scriptures ask people to wait. it is hard. But it is not imposable. But now that society is telling teens not to marry until they are 25/30 years old is making a hard thing Way, Way Harder.

I think instead of telling them not to marry, the Christian community should be more involved with helping young married couples in their early married lives. Wouldn't it be good if more Christians actually gave support to young couples instead of donating thousands to questionable slick tele-evangelist’s.

The more i consider this discussion the more i think good of people marrying young. And while the advice to marry old might come from a good intention it is probably not good advice in the long run.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Igor]

...I think instead of telling them not to marry, the Christian community should be more involved with helping young married couples in their early married lives. Wouldn't it be good if more Christians actually gave support to young couples instead of donating thousands to questionable slick tele-evangelist’s.

The more i consider this discussion the more i think good of people marrying young. And while the advice to marry old might come from a good intention it is probably not good advice in the long run.

This sounds like a great idea! how must our own people in need of help feel when we tell them there aren't enough resources to help them, but we give it away to someone who uses it to make a fortune off of a television show and build a $100,000 dog house?

The scriptures ask people to wait...

I didn't know this. Did I miss it earlier in this thread? (Sorry if that's the case Could you give me the reference for the verse(s) that say this? If the scriptures actually say this, I need to know where it is so I can learn and use it.

I know Paul advocates life long celebacy (1 Cor. 7:7), but that's different than an instruction to wait until middle age to marry, and he knew that this was a special calling for some people and not for all. I'm guessing you're referring to something else?

 

[Sparkey]

My advice to my youngest (since I could not afford to support him forever) was that he would do well to be able to support himself before he accepted the responsibility of providing for another. Sadly, the cost of raising a baby these days is approximately equal to the cost of a home.

That's a startling statement but when you do the math... for one of my sons (born while I was unemployed - I had continued my COBRA coverage) was $3000 for the hospital, $6000 for the other 1st week expenses, mostly medical - both for mom and for baby other than the direct hospital charges. That was back in the 80's and does not include one-time expenses such as furnishings but only the ongoing like diapers (an incredible expense when tallied). Back then a home would cost ~ $100,000. Shelter, heat, transportation (it all adds up), food, clothing, medical care, day-care, baby-sitting, schooling (even though it is "free" it really isn't) easily totaled to the remainder and it doesn't stop there. I didn't include the cost of secondary education (college). But you already know.

So then, there must be balance. I was married at 17 (too early for me - I was a young 17 and thought I could do anything), my son began living with his girlfriend at 19. They will be married this coming June. They have two wonderful sons, my grandchildren; poverty doesn't seem the largest factor. Personally I was disappointed when I heard they were living together and having sex. Further disappointed when told she was pregnant and the feeling of "here we go again" came with the announcement of the 2nd. What I really did not and do not want to see is the pain of divorce that happened with me be repeated for my loved ones.

For the record, neither me nor my children have ever suffered for want of food. Not a single day, quite the opposite for most of my child rearing years as we were blessed with abundance even without child support from the mom. She has recently paid off the back support and today the blessing continues. What counts then, when considering marriage? I would like to think that children's hearts would be turned back to our Father and that we could begin actually training our children in HIS ways. Sadly, I could not give what I did not have and although my son's struggle with the consequence of sin is different, it is also the same.

 

[Adstar]

This sounds like a great idea! how must our own people in need of help feel when we tell them there aren't enough resources to help them, but we give it away to someone who uses it to make a fortune off of a television show and build a $100,000 dog house?

Exactly.

I didn't know this. Did I miss it earlier in this thread? (Sorry if that's the case Could you give me the reference for the verse(s) that say this? If the scriptures actually say this, I need to know where it is so I can learn and use it.

Well there are two words in the bible closely related but discribing different things.

One is Adultry. That is having sexual relations with another persons wife/husband.

The second is Fornication. That is having sexual relations outside marrage.

One can fornicate without comitting adultry.

But both are described as sin in the bible.

Mark 7
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

I know Paul advocates life long celebacy (1 Cor. 7:7), but that's different than an instruction to wait until middle age to marry, and he knew that this was a special calling for some people and not for all. I'm guessing you're referring to something else?

Well Paul said such life long celebacy was only for those who have been given the ability to do it. He conceded in the same scripture that not all can do this, so He advocated marrage for all who could not. I don't think the kind of celebacy paul was talking about has any relevance to this discussion.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Sparkey]

Well Paul said such life long celebacy was only for those who have been given the ability to do it. He conceded in the same scripture that not all can do this, so He advocated marrage for all who could not. I don't think the kind of celebacy paul was talking about has any relevance to this discussion.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Celibacy does have relevance. You've done well up to here and spoke of fidelity and chastity when you defined fornication and adultery. Without being able to be true to God and self how can any union be formed without being founded on sand? The climbing divorce and suicide rates are not the surprise, what surprises is how low the numbers are. When we are performing a worldwide experiment that effectively makes breeding choice to give preference to sexual promiscuity can we then complain because of the consequence our sin? Making two "kinds" of celibacy isn't gonna help. Defining a certain kind of celibacy (the kind that we are able to keep) is a subtle way repeating Adams accusation. God did it, he's to blame. It's not the kind of celibacy that we can keep so no wonder our kids are promiscuous.

Nobody can give what they do not have. If you are married, flee sexual sin. If you are single? Flee sexual sin. Celibacy is required for all and is practiced in marriage as well. Married are instructed to let it be "for a time only" so that we are not tempted. Part of the deal is something that comes with innocence and with maintaining virginity. It is much easier for a person to continue along their course if they have not had sexual relations. Why shift blame?