The Case for Early Marriage...

[handy]

I actually agree with Adstar's thoughts on two kinds of celibacy.

The celibacy that comes from maintaining self-control over sexual needs until one is married, and maintaining that same self-control during the times of marriage when sex isn't forthcoming...

and the sort of life-long celibacy that Jesus describes in Matthew 9:11-12 (the infamous eunuch passage) and in 1 Corinthians 7:8 that Paul spoke of...remaining single for the sake of devoting oneself to the work of the Lord.

However, both Jesus and Paul said that sort of celibacy was not for all, only for those to whom it was given. Most will need to marry, if they want to obey God and remain sexually pure.

Celibacy is possible...I know, I didn't marry until I was 38. But, I don't think it is God's plan for us to be pressuring our young people to remain chaste, as if sexual sin is the unforgivable sin, and at the same time, adopt the world's view on marriage...that one should have completed all their schooling, done some traveling, experienced a few different relationships, landed a well paying job and bought a house before marriage. In today's world, that necessitates holding marriage off until the late 20's early 30's, something that most kids are doing. But they aren't holding off on sex, because for kids who sexually mature at 13-15 waiting 10 to 15 years for sex just ain't happening. And, having been in the position myself...I understand why they aren't.

As the article mentioned, the church has done a good job in maintaining the importance of sexual purity in a sexually promiscuous society. But, we've allowed much worldly thought to enter into what we believe about marriage and added all kinds of prerequisites to marriage that God never called for. Indeed, these prerequisites can be tantamount to a lack of faith in Him...that He is unable to provide for the needs of a couple so they'd better make sure they are self-sufficient before marriage.

 

[Sparkey]

I actually agree with Adstar's thoughts on two kinds of celibacy.

The celibacy that comes from maintaining self-control over sexual needs until one is married, and maintaining that same self-control during the times of marriage when sex isn't forthcoming...

and the sort of life-long celibacy that Jesus describes in Matthew 9:11-12 (the infamous eunuch passage) and in 1 Corinthians 7:8 that Paul spoke of...remaining single for the sake of devoting oneself to the work of the Lord.

However, both Jesus and Paul said that sort of celibacy was not for all, only for those to whom it was given. Most will need to marry, if they want to obey God and remain sexually pure.

Celibacy is possible...I know, I didn't marry until I was 38. But, I don't think it is God's plan for us to be pressuring our young people to remain chaste, as if sexual sin is the unforgivable sin, and at the same time, adopt the world's view on marriage...that one should have completed all their schooling, done some traveling, experienced a few different relationships, landed a well paying job and bought a house before marriage. In today's world, that necessitates holding marriage off until the late 20's early 30's, something that most kids are doing. But they aren't holding off on sex, because for kids who sexually mature at 13-15 waiting 10 to 15 years for sex just ain't happening. And, having been in the position myself...I understand why they aren't.

As the article mentioned, the church has done a good job in maintaining the importance of sexual purity in a sexually promiscuous society. But, we've allowed much worldly thought to enter into what we believe about marriage and added all kinds of prerequisites to marriage that God never called for. Indeed, these prerequisites can be tantamount to a lack of faith in Him...that He is unable to provide for the needs of a couple so they'd better make sure they are self-sufficient before marriage.

I also agree and would not strenuously object to that understanding. BUT when we understand that our sin is idolatry and we are violating the first commandment by our fornication and tolerance we will also agree, I am sure, that there is a higher law enacted here as well. How can one say that it is okay to disobey God ? Treating the symptom of the illness and ignoring the cause won't work. Or do you think that grace covers sin that is not turned away from and is not confessed? I don't. Pardon me for side-tracking the topic, please. That was not my intent. It is as you say, not all are to be eunuchs. That does not mean that we can continue in idolatry and expect to be able to teach others fidelity. Jesus is our example.

Again, one can not give what they do not have. By that I mean to say that if we were able to follow after Jesus and seek the kingdom first in all aspects of our lives we would no longer need be concerned for the flesh. All things would be added unto us. The sad fact of the matter is that we have yet to realize this experiential and by "we" I mean me. I can't speak for others except to say that I am excited to live in a time where my expectation of seeing the body of Christ (the church) walking with God in true harmony may be realized. Have you seen her? Keep looking, as she calls - He comes. But then, you already know.

 

[Lewis]

Well I might as well come clean, I got married when I was 4 and I was mature beyond my years.

 

[Igor]

Well there are two words in the bible closely related but discribing different things.

One is Adultry. That is having sexual relations with another persons wife/husband.

The second is Fornication. That is having sexual relations outside marrage.

One can fornicate without comitting adultry.

But both are described as sin in the bible.

Mark 7
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,




Well Paul said such life long celebacy was only for those who have been given the ability to do it. He conceded in the same scripture that not all can do this, so He advocated marrage for all who could not. I don't think the kind of celebacy paul was talking about has any relevance to this discussion.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

LOL!

When you said:

The scriptures ask people to wait. it is hard. But it is not imposable. But now that society is telling teens not to marry until they are 25/30 years old is making a hard thing Way, Way Harder.

I thought you meant there is scripture that says we shouldn't get married early. Clearly I misunderstood you, and now that I re-read your post on a new day, I don't know how I misunderstood it! The only scripture I could possibly think of that you might have been referring to as advising people to wait until late in life to get married was 1 Cor 7:7, and I agree, it has no relevance!

Sorry for the confusion

 

[Jeremiah1]

"Why are we Christians, the first to scream at our kids that sex before marriage is the sin above all sins... also tell them that they need to wait until 25,28,30 before they marry!?!

Irregardless of studies, data, social mores whatever, it's a biological fact that we become sexually mature in our teens. So, if God designed us to become sexual in our teens, and since sex outside of marriage has become so normal that even Christians have a hard time wondering why it's bad, can we be sure that God is on the side of people waiting until they are in their mid to late 20's or even 30's before they marry?"

Yes, yes yes!!! I completely agree, good article, thanks for posting!

 

[handy]

Well I might as well come clean, I got married when I was 4 and I was mature beyond my years.

'S OK Lewis, since you were president of the KKK at the age of 3, you obviously needed a helpmeet!

:D

 

[Adstar]

Celibacy does have relevance. You've done well up to here and spoke of fidelity and chastity when you defined fornication and adultery. Without being able to be true to God and self how can any union be formed without being founded on sand? The climbing divorce and suicide rates are not the surprise, what surprises is how low the numbers are. When we are performing a worldwide experiment that effectively makes breeding choice to give preference to sexual promiscuity can we then complain because of the consequence our sin? Making two "kinds" of celibacy isn't gonna help. Defining a certain kind of celibacy (the kind that we are able to keep) is a subtle way repeating Adams accusation. God did it, he's to blame. It's not the kind of celibacy that we can keep so no wonder our kids are promiscuous.

Nobody can give what they do not have. If you are married, flee sexual sin. If you are single? Flee sexual sin. Celibacy is required for all and is practiced in marriage as well. Married are instructed to let it be "for a time only" so that we are not tempted. Part of the deal is something that comes with innocence and with maintaining virginity. It is much easier for a person to continue along their course if they have not had sexual relations. Why shift blame?

You definitly do not understand what i was getting at with Paul. I believe Paul was able to remain celebate not through self control or self effort but through having the desire removed from him by the Holy Spirit.

I Corinthians 7
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28491">7</sup> For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28492">8</sup> But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28493">9</sup> but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul saw His celebacy as a gift given to Him by God.

In no way was what i said saying it was ok to commit adultry or fornication. I agree with what Paul said in the above scriptures if someone cannot execrise self control then they should be married.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

LOL!

When you said:
I thought you meant there is scripture that says we shouldn't get married early. Clearly I misunderstood you, and now that I re-read your post on a new day, I don't know how I misunderstood it! The only scripture I could possibly think of that you might have been referring to as advising people to wait until late in life to get married was 1 Cor 7:7, and I agree, it has no relevance!

Sorry for the confusion

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->No worries mate :D <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->We are just human beings and i often fail to give a message clearly enough and others often fail in their reading of what i say. Add the two together and miscommunications happen a lot.

Such is life as a faulty human being.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Sparkey]

You definitly do not understand what i was getting at with Paul. I believe Paul was able to remain celebate not through self control or self effort but through having the desire removed from him by the Holy Spirit.

I Corinthians 7
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28491">7</sup> For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28492">8</sup> But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28493">9</sup> but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul saw His celebacy as a gift given to Him by God.

In no way was what i said saying it was ok to commit adultry or fornication. I agree with what Paul said in the above scriptures if someone cannot execrise self control then they should be married.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Perhaps I got confused when you mentioned a different "kind" of celibacy. From what I understand of this conversation children who enter puberty "can not" exercise self-control.

Is that your position also?

The article referenced makes the claim, "In a nationally representative study of young adults, just under 80 percent of unmarried, church- going, conservative Protestants who are currently dating someone are having sex of some sort." It goes on to say, "Indeed, studies continue to show that early marriage is the number one predictor of divorce." 'Early marriage' is defined there as teenage marriage, or marriage before 20 years of age.

 

[handy]

From what I understand of this conversation children who enter puberty "can not" exercise self-control.

Is that your position also?

The article referenced makes the claim, "In a nationally representative study of young adults, just under 80 percent of unmarried, church- going, conservative Protestants who are currently dating someone are having sex of some sort." It goes on to say, "Indeed, studies continue to show that early marriage is the number one predictor of divorce." 'Early marriage' is defined there as teenage marriage, or marriage before 20 years of age.

"'Can not' exercise self-control." This hasn't been my position, I know that they can, I did myself.

I think the problem with creating an unreasonable (and not biblical) expectation that children wait until their late 20's or 30's before marrying is that then many people won't exercise self-control. And, one only needs to talk with the churched youth of today to see, sadly, that this is the case.

As for teenage marriage being the number one predictor of divorce...yes, but that doesn't mean that all who marry young will get divorced. "Studies" those things we place so much value on, often don't tell a full story, we all know that. I don't know of any study on teenage marriage that separates the data based upon why the couple got married in the first place. I would bet dollars to doughnuts though, that if they didn't just gather raw statistics (how old were you when you married) but delved into the young couples attitudes towards marriage, relationship with each other (are they marrying because he got her pregnant, usually the number one reason for teen marriage anymore), attitudes towards God, and attitudes of the family regarding the marriage (many teen marriages are submarined by hostile parents, I've seen this happen several times), they would find reasons for divorce that go far deeper than just the age of the couple.

Just like people don't die of "old age", divorces don't happen just because people were in their teens when they married. There are reasons why divorce happens to teens who marry, and those reasons should be addressed rather than just lumping everything under the idea of "You married at 18, well there's your problem!"

 

[Adstar]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

Perhaps I got confused when you mentioned a different "kind" of celibacy. From what I understand of this conversation children who enter puberty "can not" exercise self-control.

Is that your position also?

No that is not my position.

I am saying the advice given by older people for young people not to get married until they are 25/30 ( irrespective of how good intentioned it is) is placing a far greater burden upon them in relation to avoiding pre-marital sexual relationships.

The article referenced makes the claim, "In a nationally representative study of young adults, just under 80 percent of unmarried, church- going, conservative Protestants who are currently dating someone are having sex of some sort." It goes on to say, "Indeed, studies continue to show that early marriage is the number one predictor of divorce." 'Early marriage' is defined there as teenage marriage, or marriage before 20 years of age.

I never even bothered reading the article.

And early marriages ending in divorce is not i believe caused by people getting married early. It is caused by young people facing the incredible pressures of financial demands placed on them by modern society. That’s why i posted my wish that people within Christian communities should give more support to young married members of their communities. Not only would it be a great outlet for Christian giving it would foster a true sense of community. Something this modern world with it's "look after number 1" and "dog eat dog" darwinian philosophies has done a great deal of harm to.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Evidence_of_Grace]

I will probably be married when I am 29ish and, for me personally, that boils down to deferred emotional maturity and a slew of bad choices in previous relationships. So, I suppose, it really is relative to a person's upbringing and life choices.

 

[Lewis]

The thing is, what does the Biblical standards have to say about this. What was the age of marriage during those times ? To read the rest of the article below scroll to the bottom of page for link.

Biblical Marriage

Some time ago, I was asked if I had any information on the Biblical Jewish marriage ceremony. I had collected a lot of information in my head, on VCR tapes, audio tapes by others, magazine articles, etc., but really didn’t have much in any shape to share with others. So, I sent what I had written down though it wasn’t very much. But the thought stayed with me, "I really ought to dig into this subject and share what I can find with you."

So today I want to at least begin to discuss the subject of marriage according to the Bible.

I. There are three parts of a Biblical marriage: The match, the betrothal period, and the culmination or consummation.
The match was usually arranged by outsiders, usually the fathers of the bride and groom. Sometimes the wishes of the bride and groom were considered by the fathers, but it was not necessarily binding on them. In fact, it was not terribly uncommon for the fathers to arrange a match for a couple who did not even know each other. This was evidenced by the match between Isaac and Rebekah.
<dir> (Gen 24:4 NKJV) [Abraham speaking to his servant]: "but you shall go to my country and to my family, and take a wife for my son Isaac."
</dir> Sometimes the couple was recommended by a matchmaker. It is important to remember that the bride and groom were under the authority of their fathers.
Thirteen was the legal age for marriage but most marriages occurred when the groom was between sixteen and twenty. That seems very young to us today but we must remember that there were strong family ties where the father continued to be a strong influence to his greater family. In addition, marrying young had the advantage of reducing the temptation of premarital sex.
An integral part of the match was the contract or covenant. The young man had to go to the father of the young lady and ask for her. She may or may not have been present during their discussions. The prospective bride’s father could then demand to see a written agreement as to how much money the prospective groom would give him to support the bride in case the marriage ended in divorce. In case the groom was poor, he might only be able to give the bride’s father a promise to pay. Sometimes the groom also had to pay the bride’s mother an amount to pay her for the loss of labor supplied by the bride. At any rate, once the agreement was made between the groom and the bride’s father, a cup of wine was placed in front of the bride and groom. If the bride agreed to marry the groom, she would drink from the cup. If she chose not to marry him, she would not drink from it. Following her drinking from the cup, the groom would drink from his cup to finalize the contract. After both had drunk from the cup, they were considered betrothed and could only cancel the contract via a written divorce. They were essentially married after acceptance of the cup or cups, but they could not co-habit.
Now begins about a one year period of betrothal. The bride would not go out in public without covering her face with a veil, showing she was taken, and hiding her identity from the world. During this period she began preparing herself for the marriage. This preparation stressed the purifying of her body, clothes and thoughts. Esther 2 gives us a partial view of this process:
<dir> (Est 2:1-4 NKJV) After these things, when the wrath of King Ahasuerus subsided, he remembered Vashti, what she had done, and what had been decreed against her. {2} Then the king's servants who attended him said: "Let beautiful young virgins be sought for the king; {3} "and let the king appoint officers in all the provinces of his kingdom, that they may gather all the beautiful young virgins to Shushan the citadel, into the women's quarters, under the custody of Hegai the king's eunuch, custodian of the women. And let beauty preparations be given them. {4} "Then let the young woman who pleases the king be queen instead of Vashti." This thing pleased the king, and he did so.
</dir> The groom left to prepare a place for them to spend their first seven days and nights together. The place could be located near his father’s house or, if he were poor, even his own room at his father’s house. Wherever it was, it was the groom’s responsibility to prepare it and his father’s responsibility to see that it was done correctly, in a manner befitting the bride. Such things as hunting trophies would not be acceptable. The period of betrothal, while the groom prepared the room, would typically last a year, sometimes longer. During that time, the bride and groom would not be together, and certainly would not cohabit. In addition, the groom was exempt from outside responsibilities. When his father had decided the room and the groom were ready, the father would tell the groom it was time to go get his bride.
With the father’s instruction to go and get his bride, the groom and his best man or witness (called the representative of Elijah) and friends went to the home of the bride, usually at night. Once they were within hailing distance, a shout was made announcing the arrival of the groom. The bride and her maids (the so-called bride’s maid or witness was called the representative of Moses) grabbed what they needed to take with them.
The bride’s father looked the other way as the groom left with his daughter. The bride and groom stopped briefly with the groom’s father to read and sign the wedding contract and receive council from the father, then went directly to the room he had prepared.
In those days, the Bridegroom was assisted by two attendants who were also witnesses to the marriage. One of the witnesses represented Moshe, the other represented Elijah. The witness representing Moshe provided assistance to the Bride by telling her about when the Bridegroom would appear, while the one representing Elijah provided assistance to the Bridegroom.
This sharing of duties was based on the fact that it was Moshe who led the first Bride, the children of Israel, through the wilderness and right up to the wedding chamber at Mount Sinai. Then, after the wedding, he went on to lead the Bride to the door of their new home, the promised land of Canaan.
On the other hand, the original Elijah provided witness for God against the evil of his day, especially that of King Ahab and his wicked queen Jezebel. The second Elijah was, of course, John the Baptist (Yochanan the Immerser) who proclaimed the arrival of the Messiah, and called the people to repentance. He also proclaimed himself to be the friend of the Bridegroom, a Hebrew idiom for the ‘Elijah’ attendant at a wedding.
A great deal of noise was generated by all this so that everyone in the community knew a wedding was taking place and, of course, everyone was invited to the wedding.
The consummation. The wedding couple spent the next seven days in the room while the wedding guests celebrated outside. The best man stationed himself outside the door of the room in order to pass whatever was needed into or out of the room, like food and water, etc. When the marriage was consummated, it was announced to the wedding guests who then began a celebration. At this time the sheets where passed outside to be taken to the bride’s father in case proof was ever needed that the bride had been a virgin.
When the new couple finally came out seven days later, they sat beneath a canopy while the wedding banquet was conducted. The pure joy of the groom can be seen in Psalms 19:
Biblical Marriage

 

[handy]

I will probably be married when I am 29ish and, for me personally, that boils down to deferred emotional maturity and a slew of bad choices in previous relationships. So, I suppose, it really is relative to a person's upbringing and life choices.

I find your thoughts here rather sad Michael.

Is there a particular reason why marriage isn't a better option?

 

[Caroline H]

Lewis, I just want too point out that just because the Bible refers to what the cultural practice of much of the Ancient Near East, it is neither supporting it nor opposing it. I think it would be unhelpful to take a cultural norm from the Bible and make it into a Biblical principle. I agree with earlier marriage than what is currently impressed by our culture, so I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point, but I don't think that the Bible is too concerned with presenting a formula for courtship and marriage as much as it is with Godly relationships.

 

[Lewis]

Lewis, I just want too point out that just because the Bible refers to what the cultural practice of much of the Ancient Near East, it is neither supporting it nor opposing it. I think it would be unhelpful to take a cultural norm from the Bible and make it into a Biblical principle. I agree with earlier marriage than what is currently impressed by our culture, so I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point, but I don't think that the Bible is too concerned with presenting a formula for courtship and marriage as much as it is with Godly relationships.

I am just a reporter

 

[jasoncran]

I find your thoughts here rather sad Michael.

Is there a particular reason why marriage isn't a better option?

dora i married at age 28, and looking back that is when i was ready.

but each of use must be free to decide.

 

[Sparkey]

I'm not advocating that marriage be delayed until the couple is at least 28 years old. It is my considered opinion though that tolerance of willful sin is ungodly.

Side-track:
I've just watched a documentary about dogs. Scientists are recently interested because of their interactions with humans. Seems that there has been an ongoing experiment in Siberia where wild foxes were captured and bred for friendly traits. If the animal were hostile or aggressive to human contact they would be separated. Only those who showed ability to interact well with humans were selected and bred together. 3 generations later (today) there is a colony of very friendly almost domesticated foxes in Siberia.

Now, apply this to today. If our children continue to be bred for infidelity and godless behaviors, if our young men and women select only those who engage in premarital sex and continue to choose partners who demonstrate sexual incontinence, what will happen?

Saying "let the children marry earlier" does not treat the cause of the problem.

 

[handy]

I'm sorry, Spar, but I have to disagree with this...everything that I see in the Bible about marriage and sex points towards allowing marriage so that we can function in the manner that God designed us to. I'm not sure that it is biblical to force people to remain in a state of temptation for....what exactly? To reach a certain age, financial state or education level?

In the Scriptures and in the article that Lewis shared (which I read and thought very interesting) it is obvious that celibacy outside of marriage is expected, but nonetheless I cannot find any scriptures to back up the idea that we should purposely prolong adolescence into the mid to late '20's.

Telling two people who love each other and are desiring to be with each other to wait for years is not wise, because of sin, but it's also not Biblical.

Keep in mind that I say this as Steve and I are telling our own daughter and the love of her life that they need to wait for 4 1/2 years before they can marry...but this is because she won't turn 18 for until then. In the meantime, they need to keep their relationship in the "best friend" category. (My daughter not being graduated from High School and the laws in Idaho regulating relationships that have more than 5 years difference in age, constitute compelling reasons not to marry in her case.)

What exactly is the "cause of the problem" of children engaging in sex at the time of life that most humans going back to Adam and Eve engage in sex, only outside of marriage, which is sin?

I think there is a valid case to be made that the cause of the problem is that we have created an unbiblical and unreasonable expectation of delaying adulthood for far too long.

 

[Sparkey]

I'm sorry, Spar, but I have to disagree with this...everything that I see in the Bible about marriage and sex points towards allowing marriage so that we can function in the manner that God designed us to. I'm not sure that it is biblical to force people to remain in a state of temptation for....what exactly? To reach a certain age, financial state or education level?

In the Scriptures and in the article that Lewis shared (which I read and thought very interesting) it is obvious that celibacy outside of marriage is expected, but nonetheless I cannot find any scriptures to back up the idea that we should purposely prolong adolescence into the mid to late '20's.

Telling two people who love each other and are desiring to be with each other to wait for years is not wise, because of sin, but it's also not Biblical.

Keep in mind that I say this as Steve and I are telling our own daughter and the love of her life that they need to wait for 4 1/2 years before they can marry...but this is because she won't turn 18 for until then. In the meantime, they need to keep their relationship in the "best friend" category. (My daughter not being graduated from High School and the laws in Idaho regulating relationships that have more than 5 years difference in age, constitute compelling reasons not to marry in her case.)

What exactly is the "cause of the problem" of children engaging in sex at the time of life that most humans going back to Adam and Eve engage in sex, only outside of marriage, which is sin?

I think there is a valid case to be made that the cause of the problem is that we have created an unbiblical and unreasonable expectation of delaying adulthood for far too long.

It's okay. Maybe you don't understand me? I tried to say that I do NOT advocate waiting until late 20's or longer. Does a kid born in a circus ask why they are being thrown from a trapeze? No, they just think that it's normal. If you are advocating sexual contact for children, then yes, I'm afraid that we do disagree. But I don't hear that from you and it would be hard for me to be convinced of it.