The Chair of Peter

[jaybo]

That's simply your opinion.
I follow Jesus and he clearly appointed Peter to lead his Church. I don't just look at one verse and ignore the rest.
To no other aspostle did he give a new name.
To no other apostle did he give (singly) the power to bind and loose.
To no other apostle did he give the keys to the kingdom.
To no other apostle did he tell to strengthen his brethren.
To no other apostle did he tell to feed his lambs.
To no other apostle did he tell to take care of his sheep.

To no other apostle did He use the term Satan.
To no other apostle did He use the term "stumbling block".
To no other apostle did He say "you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s".

He gave all the apostles the power and responsibility to go and preach in His name, heal the sick, etc. That means strengthening the faith of others, "feed" people the word of God and take care of them.

Luke 10:1-11, "After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him two by two into every town and place where he himself was about to go. He said to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Therefore ask the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest. Go! I am sending you out like lambs surrounded by wolves. Do not carry a money bag, a traveler’s bag, or sandals, and greet no one on the road. Whenever[n] you enter a house, first say, ‘May peace be on this house!’ And if a peace-loving person is there, your peace will remain on him, but if not, it will return to you. Stay in that same house, eating and drinking what they give you, for the worker deserves his pay. Do not move around from house to house. Whenever you enter a town and the people welcome you, eat what is set before you. Heal the sick in that town and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come upon you!’ But whenever you enter a town and the people do not welcome you, go into its streets and say, ‘Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you Nevertheless know this: The kingdom of God has come.’ "

I know that it is difficult -- probably impossible -- for you to believe what the Bible clearly says instead of what your denomination teaches, but there it is "in black and white". Your mind is closed! You believe centuries of what your denomination has taught, much of which doesn't agree with the God's word.

This idolatry of Peter is a perfect example. It is unscriptural!!! Jesus should be the focus of our faith, not Peter!!!

 

[Mungo]

To no other apostle did He use the term Satan.
To no other apostle did He use the term "stumbling block".
To no other apostle did He say "you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s".

You are hanging it all on one incident again and ignoring all the others.

He gave all the apostles the power and responsibility to go and preach in His name, heal the sick, etc. That means strengthening the faith of others, "feed" people the word of God and take care of them.

More inventions from you. What happened to Sola Scriptura?

Of all the apostles only Peter was told to feed my lambs and take care of my sheep. The rest is your invention.

Peter was specifically told to strengthen his brethren - meaning the other apostles. That was nothing to do with the command to preach the gospel. You just make stuff up.
What happened to Sola Scriptura?

Luke 10:1-11, "After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him two by two into every town and place where he himself was about to go. He said to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Therefore ask the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest. Go! I am sending you out likfeed my manbs and e lambs surrounded by wolves. Do not carry a money bag, a traveler’s bag, or sandals, and greet no one on the road. Whenever[n] you enter a house, first say, ‘May peace be on this house!’ And if a peace-loving person is there, your peace will remain on him, but if not, it will return to you. Stay in that same house, eating and drinking what they give you, for the worker deserves his pay. Do not move around from house to house. Whenever you enter a town and the people welcome you, eat what is set before you. Heal the sick in that town and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come upon you!’ But whenever you enter a town and the people do not welcome you, go into its streets and say, ‘Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you Nevertheless know this: The kingdom of God has come.’ "

I know that it is difficult -- probably impossible -- for you to believe what the Bible clearly says instead of what your denomination teaches, but there it is "in black and white". Your mind is closed! You believe centuries of what your denomination has taught, much of which doesn't agree with the God's word.

Nothing there about feed my lambs and take care of my sheep.
Nothing there about strengthening the other apostles.

This idolatry of Peter is a perfect example. It is unscriptural!!! Jesus should be the focus of our faith, not Peter!!!

We don't idololise Peter.
Jesus is the focus of our faith.
It's you that are making a big issue of it.

 

[jaybo]

You are hanging it all on one incident again and ignoring all the others.


More inventions from you. What happened to Sola Scriptura?

Of all the apostles only Peter was told to feed my lambs and take care of my sheep. The rest is your invention.

Peter was specifically told to strengthen his brethren - meaning the other apostles. That was nothing to do with the command to preach the gospel. You just make stuff up.
What happened to Sola Scriptura?



Nothing there about feed my lambs and take care of my sheep.
Nothing there about strengthening the other apostles.




We don't idololise Peter.
Jesus is the focus of our faith.
It's you that are making a big issue of it.

You clearly worship Peter instead of Christ! Stop kidding yourself! Even the title of this thread shows your focus!

 

[GodsGrace]

Well we consider protestants brothers in Christ but separated.

We recognize the Holy Spirit operating in Protestant communities.
We recognize protestant devotion! to ther Sacraments .a sign; of unity.hefause it flows from desire to do what the Church does.

Where the rubber rmeets the road.

The individual Christians culpability for separation and their love for Truth.

At this stage there is little to no fault for the separation but whatever it's both
C'atholic and Protestant.

There is no salvation outside the Church can he better and more accurately expressed.

The gifts Jesus came with and gave to the Church are so the Church can be continually given to the world until His return.

If you remember Scripture about that final suffering,.For the inhabitants of the world it will be a trial that reveals love of thruth and it adds for it's love of truth that could save! them. .

Yes. I think that the expression THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH should be better explained.
I'll start a thread and will tag you in.

 

[Mungo]

You clearly worship Peter instead of Christ! Stop kidding yourself! Even the title of this thread shows your focus!

You really are embarassing yourself.
Suggesting I worship Peter because his name is in the title of a thread in a section called The Church and The Papacy.

 

[Mungo]

Yes. I think that the expression THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH should be better explained.
I'll start a thread and will tag you in.

Please tag me in as well.

 

[GodsGrace]

There has been no change of mind.
It did not change at Vatican II.
It is a much misunderstood principle.
But off topic.

Will start a thread.

 

[jaybo]

You really are embarassing yourself.
Suggesting I worship Peter because his name is in the title of a thread in a section called The Church and The Papacy.

How often do you mention Peter vs how often do you mention Christ? You are obsessed with Peter. Your focus should properly be on Jesus Christ!

 

[Mungo]

How often do you mention Peter vs how often do you mention Christ? You are obsessed with Peter. Your focus should properly be on Jesus Christ!

That is so absurd it's laughable.
In these forums we discuss a whole variety of topics. Of course the paticular topic is going to be mentioned a lot.
If a thread was about Paul we would mention Paul a lot.
If a thread was about the Holy Spirit we would mention the Holy Spirit a lot.
etc.

You are the one who is keeping this discuassion about Peter going with your obsession about claiming falsely he was a violant man, or vacillating man, etc. If you stopped I think the thread would grind to a halt quite quickly.

 

[jaybo]

That is so absurd it's laughable.
In these forums we discuss a whole variety of topics. Of course the paticular topic is going to be mentioned a lot.
If a thread was about Paul we would mention Paul a lot.
If a thread was about the Holy Spirit we would mention the Holy Spirit a lot.
etc.

You are the one who is keeping this discuassion about Peter going with your obsession about claiming falsely he was a violant man, or vacillating man, etc. If you stopped I think the thread would grind to a halt quite quickly.

Nice try! Are you actually saying that if I stopped posting the thread would end? That is, of course, nonsense. You blocked me for three days and the thread continued...

What I am saying, if you bother to pay attention, is that you and other Catholics are obsessed with Peter, while neglecting Jesus Christ. Peter was a flawed man, as were all the apostles and others; only Jesus was perfect. Yet whom do you focus on? Peter, not Jesus!

Stop fooling yourself! You're not fooling me with your obsession and I doubt you're fooling other non-Catholics.

 

[Mungo]

Nice try! Are you actually saying that if I stopped posting the thread would end? That is, of course, nonsense. You blocked me for three days and the thread continued...

What I am saying, if you bother to pay attention, is that you and other Catholics are obsessed with Peter, while neglecting Jesus Christ. Peter was a flawed man, as were all the apostles and others; only Jesus was perfect. Yet whom do you focus on? Peter, not Jesus!

Stop fooling yourself! You're not fooling me with your obsession and I doubt you're fooling other non-Catholics.

More of your absurd opinions. But then, as usual, you provide no evidence of for them.

Jesus is the source an summit of Catholic life.
From the Catechism
1324 The Eucharist [Jesus] is "the source and summit of the Christian life." "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch."

 

[Niblo]

Yes. I think that the expression THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH should be better explained.
I'll start a thread and will tag you in.

And me, please.

 

[jaybo]

More of your absurd opinions. But then, as usual, you provide no evidence of for them.

Jesus is the source an summit of Catholic life.
From the Catechism
1324 The Eucharist [Jesus] is "the source and summit of the Christian life." "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch."

More of your absurd opinions. I don't really care what the catechism says; I believe what the Bible says. The first is the teachings of men, the second is the word of God.

 

[jaybo]

That's simply your opinion.
I follow Jesus and he clearly appointed Peter to lead his Church. I don't just look at one verse and ignore the rest.
To no other aspostle did he give a new name.
To no other apostle did he give (singly) the power to bind and loose.
To no other apostle did he give the keys to the kingdom.
To no other apostle did he tell to strengthen his brethren.
To no other apostle did he tell to feed his lambs.
To no other apostle did he tell to take care of his sheep.

That's simply your opinion.

He didn't call any other apostle "Satan".
He didn't say to any other apostle "You are a stumbling block to me".
No other apostle denied knowing Him three times (as happened at His hour of trial!)
He is designated "the apostle to the Jews" in Galatians.
He is cited for his hypocritical behavior in Galatians.

Peter was a deeply flawed, conflicted man whom you have elevated above Christ! Your whole doctrine turns people away from the only Savior, God's Son toward a flawed, troubled man.

Here is what Jesus said about Peter: You are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s. That shows plainly and obviously what Jesus thought about his ability to lead the church!

You worship Peter, not the crucified Lord!

 

[jaybo]

You are hanging it all on one incident again and ignoring all the others.


More inventions from you. What happened to Sola Scriptura?

Of all the apostles only Peter was told to feed my lambs and take care of my sheep. The rest is your invention.

Peter was specifically told to strengthen his brethren - meaning the other apostles. That was nothing to do with the command to preach the gospel. You just make stuff up.
What happened to Sola Scriptura?



Nothing there about feed my lambs and take care of my sheep.
Nothing there about strengthening the other apostles.




We don't idololise Peter.
Jesus is the focus of our faith.
It's you that are making a big issue of it.

You're just repeating yourself. I have no interest in your interpretation.

You may claim that Jesus is the focus of your faith, but the posts by you and others are all about Peter, ad nauseum. Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior of mankind, is barely mentioned. I am sick of reading all about one clearly-flawed apostle.

IMHO, Catholicism has strayed so very far from the way, the truth, and the life of Christ and the fundamentals of Christianity as taught in the Bible, that it is a virtual parody of the truth. It is one man-created myth after another, and you're all like sheep that follow the wrong shepherd.

 

[Walpole]

You're just repeating yourself. I have no interest in your interpretation.

You may claim that Jesus is the focus of your faith, but the posts by you and others are all about Peter, ad nauseum. Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior of mankind, is barely mentioned. I am sick of reading all about one clearly-flawed apostle.

IMHO, Catholicism has strayed so very far from the way, the truth, and the life of Christ and the fundamentals of Christianity as taught in the Bible, that it is a virtual parody of the truth. It is one man-created myth after another, and you're all like sheep that follow the wrong shepherd.

Once again, reading your posts, it's as if you stopped reading the Gospels mid way through and refuse to see how St. Peter's story ends. It would be like me asking you how you can accept anything St. Paul said or wrote. After all, don't know you what Scripture said about him???

"And Saul approved of their killing him...But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison." (Acts 8:1, 3)

"Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples...'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?'" (Acts 9:1, 4)


But like with St. Peter, St. Paul's story doesn't end there.

 

[Benadam]

Yes. I think that the expression THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH should be better explained.
I'll start a thread and will tag you in.

Thank you. I Iook forward to participating.

 

[Benadam]

Here is what Jesus said about Peter: You are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s. That shows plainly and obviously what Jesus thought about his ability to lead the church!

It didn't matter. The Father chose Peter. Who do you say that I am? Jesus didn't ask because He didn't know. How could anyone know Jesus as Son of God but the Father? A door was opened in front of Peter. Peter spoke the first infallible doctrine. The beginning of the Deposit of Faith from the mouth of Peter.

Immediately Satan swooped through the door and began distorting the meaning of Peter's vocation.
Satan targeting Peter because of the keys and charism to guard the deposit of Faith.
Peter having just experienced Jesus as a son felt he had authority to remonstrate with Jesus.

It's funny, the very events that would have happened to the lead Apostle,whoever it was ie; Satans focused attacks, are used to defame his character instead.

Scripture describes a person experiencing deception directly from Satan right after Receiving and speaking infallible truth and instead of realizing that for what it is ,Satan attacking the newly appointed guardian of faith in Jesus, it's considered as a reason Peter isn't fit to lead.
Ever wonder why none of the Apostles are singled out in Scriptures? Only Peter was put to the test. Both heaven and hell were treating Peter as leader of the Church.

 

[Benadam]

Yes. I think that the expression THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH should be better explained.
I'll start a thread and will tag you in.

I think a good way to conceptualize that reality is to understand that it doesn't mean there aren't people outside the visible bounds of the Church that are saved. It means Jesus salvation is offered through His Church Baptism, binding and loosing sin, guardian of faith.

Because only the Church is doing that salvation is through the Church. Think after 2000 years who is saved in our time. Everyone saved can thank the Catholic Church because without it no one would have ever heard of Jesus.
Because the Catholic Church's mission to guard and preserve the faith free from error to pass down to each generation the gifts of salvation is accomplished through her and is hers alone, anyone who is saved is saved by Christ through that Church.

 

[Mungo]

I think a good way to conceptualize that reality is to understand that it doesn't mean there aren't people outside the visible bounds of the Church that are saved. It means Jesus salvation is offered through His Church Baptism, binding and loosing sin, guardian of faith.

Because only the Church is doing that salvation is through the Church. Think after 2000 years who is saved in our time. Everyone saved can thank the Catholic Church because without it no one would have ever heard of Jesus.
Because the Catholic Church's mission to guard and preserve the faith free from error to pass down to each generation the gifts of salvation is accomplished through her and is hers alone, anyone who is saved is saved by Christ through that Church.

Can we keep to the topic please.
If you want to post about "Outside The Church There Is No Salvation" can you wait for wondering's thread or start oen yourself.
Thanks