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The Council of Trent and its support of paganism.

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The Council of Trent was held in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation; it approved many pagan and unbiblical beliefs and declared it was to be accepted under the threat of "anathema".

The Council of Trent declared in its proclamation's the following:

It denied all the doctrines of the Reformation, from Sola Scriptura to "salvation by grace through faith alone" and pronounced anathemas (basically eternal damnation) upon anyone believing what the scripture shows and the Reformation held and preached.

It gave equal value and authority of tradition and Scripture (in actuality, tradition is held above Scripture) and so allowed for all the pagan rites and rituals it had allowed into the church.

Declared the Scriptures was for the priesthood only, and prohibited to anyone in the laity without written permission from one's superior -- to violate this was considered a mortal sin.

Confirmed the seven sacraments which basically were of pagan origin in the form they brought in. They held seven sacraments: baptism, confirmation, Eucharist (mass), penance/reconciliation (indulgences), extreme unction (last rights), marriage, and orders (ordination). Although not even formally decreed until the Council of Florence in 1439, the Council of Trent later declared all to be anathema whom do not hold Rome's position that it was Christ Himself who instituted these seven sacraments, but the form they used were from paganism more than anything from scripture.

Confirmed Purgatory which has no biblical basis but of pagan origin.Though of pagan origin, the Roman Church proclaimed it as an article of faith in 1439 at the Council of Florence, and it was confirmed by Trent in 1548. The Catholic Church teaches that even those "who die in the state of grace" (i.e., saved and sins forgiven) must still spend an indefinite time being purged/purified (i.e., expiated of sins/cleansed for heaven).

Confirmed the use Indulgences of which clearly is not sanctioned by the scriptures.

Confirmed the Mass as a propitiatory offering.The Mass was unknown in the early church, the mass did not become an official doctrine until pronounced by the Lateran Council of 1215 under the direction of Pope Innocent III, and reaffirmed by the Council of Trent.

Confirmed the perpetual virginity of Mary. The Lateran Council of 469 under Pope Martin I declared: "if anyone does not confess in harmony with the holy Fathers that the holy and ever virgin and immaculate Mary is really and truly the mother of God, inasmuch as she in the last times and without semen by the Holy Spirit conceived God the Word himself specially and truthfully, who was born from God the Father before all ages, and she bore him uncorrupted, and after his birth her virginity remaining indissoluble, let him be condemned." The perpetual virginity of Mary thus became an official teaching of the church: Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Jesus. In 1555, the Council of Trent confirmed this dogma in the Constitution of Pope Paul IV known as "Cum Quorundam." Here the pope warns against teaching that "the same blessed Virgin Mary is not truly the Mother of God, and did not remain always in the integrity of virginity, i. e., before birth, in birth, and perpetually after birth."

Some of the of the Anathemas of Trent:

"If any one shall deny that the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore entire Christ, are truly, really, and substantially contained in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist; and shall say that He is only in it as a sign, or in a figure, or virtually -- let him be accursed." (Canon 1).

"If any one shall say that the substance of the bread and wine remains in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, together with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and shall deny that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the outward forms of the bread and wine still remaining, which conversion the Catholic church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be accursed."(Canon 2).

"If any one shall deny, that in the venerated sacrament of the Eucharist, entire Christ is contained in each kind, and in each several particle of either kind when separated, let him be accursed."(Canon 3).

"If any one shall say that, after consecration, the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is only in the wonderful sacrament of the Eucharist in use whilst it is taken, and not either before or after, and that the true body of the Lord does not remain in the hosts or particles which have been consecrated, and which are reserved, or remain after the communion, let him be accursed."(Canon 4).

"If any one says that the principal fruit of the most holy Eucharist is the remission of sins or that other effects do not result from it, let him be accursed." (Canon 5).

"If any man shall say that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is not to be adored in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, even with the open worship of latria, and therefore not to be venerated with any peculiar festal celebrity, nor to be solemnly carried about in processions according to the praiseworthy, and universal rites and customs of the holy Church, and that he is not to be publicly set before the people to be adored, and that his adorers are idolaters -- let him be accursed." (Canon 6).

"If anyone shall say that the ungodly man is justified by faith only so as to understand that nothing else is required that may cooperate to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is in no wise necessary for him to be prepared and disposed by the motion of his own will ... let him be accursed." (Canon 9).

"If anyone shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed." (Canon 12).

Here we see the Council of Trent sets forth the pagan 'Mystery' of the Eucharist.

Now in the sacrament of the Eucharist, was the doctrine of Transubstantiation (in Latin, transsubstantiatio, in Greek metousiosis) which is the change whereby, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Christ. However the doctrine of transubstantiation does not date back to the Last Supper as is supposed.

We find 'transubstantiation origin is from paganism, and was first practiced by pagan religions. The idea of transubstantiation was characteristic of the religion of Mithra whose sacraments of cakes and Haoma drink closely parallel the Catholic Eucharistic rite. The noted historian Durant said that belief in transubstantiation as practiced by the priests of the Roman Catholic system is "one of the oldest ceremonies of primitive religion." The Story Of Civilization, p. 741. In Egypt priests would consecrate mest cakes which were supposed to be come the flesh of Osiris.' Encyclopedia Of Religions, Vol. 2, p. 76.

It was never held in the early church and took many centuries before officially becoming an article of faith by the church of Rome, which means that it is essential to salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church. The idea of a corporal presence was not part of beliefs, but in 831 A.D. Paschasius Radbertus, a Benedictine monk, published a treatise openly advocating the doctrine of transubstantiation. Even then, for almost another four hundred years, theological debate waged over this teaching by bishops and people alike until at the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 A.D., it was officially defined and canonized as a dogma.
 
The Council of Trent was held in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation; it approved many pagan and unbiblical beliefs and declared it was to be accepted under the threat of "anathema".

The Council of Trent declared in its proclamation's the following:

It denied all the doctrines of the Reformation, from Sola Scriptura to "salvation by grace through faith alone" and pronounced anathemas (basically eternal damnation) upon anyone believing what the scripture shows and the Reformation held and preached.

It gave equal value and authority of tradition and Scripture (in actuality, tradition is held above Scripture) and so allowed for all the pagan rites and rituals it had allowed into the church.

Declared the Scriptures was for the priesthood only, and prohibited to anyone in the laity without written permission from one's superior -- to violate this was considered a mortal sin.

Confirmed the seven sacraments which basically were of pagan origin in the form they brought in. They held seven sacraments: baptism, confirmation, Eucharist (mass), penance/reconciliation (indulgences), extreme unction (last rights), marriage, and orders (ordination). Although not even formally decreed until the Council of Florence in 1439, the Council of Trent later declared all to be anathema whom do not hold Rome's position that it was Christ Himself who instituted these seven sacraments, but the form they used were from paganism more than anything from scripture.

Confirmed Purgatory which has no biblical basis but of pagan origin.Though of pagan origin, the Roman Church proclaimed it as an article of faith in 1439 at the Council of Florence, and it was confirmed by Trent in 1548. The Catholic Church teaches that even those "who die in the state of grace" (i.e., saved and sins forgiven) must still spend an indefinite time being purged/purified (i.e., expiated of sins/cleansed for heaven).

Confirmed the use Indulgences of which clearly is not sanctioned by the scriptures.

Confirmed the Mass as a propitiatory offering.The Mass was unknown in the early church, the mass did not become an official doctrine until pronounced by the Lateran Council of 1215 under the direction of Pope Innocent III, and reaffirmed by the Council of Trent.

Confirmed the perpetual virginity of Mary. The Lateran Council of 469 under Pope Martin I declared: "if anyone does not confess in harmony with the holy Fathers that the holy and ever virgin and immaculate Mary is really and truly the mother of God, inasmuch as she in the last times and without semen by the Holy Spirit conceived God the Word himself specially and truthfully, who was born from God the Father before all ages, and she bore him uncorrupted, and after his birth her virginity remaining indissoluble, let him be condemned." The perpetual virginity of Mary thus became an official teaching of the church: Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Jesus. In 1555, the Council of Trent confirmed this dogma in the Constitution of Pope Paul IV known as "Cum Quorundam." Here the pope warns against teaching that "the same blessed Virgin Mary is not truly the Mother of God, and did not remain always in the integrity of virginity, i. e., before birth, in birth, and perpetually after birth."

Some of the of the Anathemas of Trent:

"If any one shall deny that the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore entire Christ, are truly, really, and substantially contained in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist; and shall say that He is only in it as a sign, or in a figure, or virtually -- let him be accursed." (Canon 1).

"If any one shall say that the substance of the bread and wine remains in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, together with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and shall deny that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the outward forms of the bread and wine still remaining, which conversion the Catholic church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be accursed."(Canon 2).

"If any one shall deny, that in the venerated sacrament of the Eucharist, entire Christ is contained in each kind, and in each several particle of either kind when separated, let him be accursed."(Canon 3).

"If any one shall say that, after consecration, the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is only in the wonderful sacrament of the Eucharist in use whilst it is taken, and not either before or after, and that the true body of the Lord does not remain in the hosts or particles which have been consecrated, and which are reserved, or remain after the communion, let him be accursed."(Canon 4).

"If any one says that the principal fruit of the most holy Eucharist is the remission of sins or that other effects do not result from it, let him be accursed." (Canon 5).

"If any man shall say that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is not to be adored in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, even with the open worship of latria, and therefore not to be venerated with any peculiar festal celebrity, nor to be solemnly carried about in processions according to the praiseworthy, and universal rites and customs of the holy Church, and that he is not to be publicly set before the people to be adored, and that his adorers are idolaters -- let him be accursed." (Canon 6).

"If anyone shall say that the ungodly man is justified by faith only so as to understand that nothing else is required that may cooperate to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is in no wise necessary for him to be prepared and disposed by the motion of his own will ... let him be accursed." (Canon 9).

"If anyone shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed." (Canon 12).

Here we see the Council of Trent sets forth the pagan 'Mystery' of the Eucharist.

Now in the sacrament of the Eucharist, was the doctrine of Transubstantiation (in Latin, transsubstantiatio, in Greek metousiosis) which is the change whereby, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Christ. However the doctrine of transubstantiation does not date back to the Last Supper as is supposed.

We find 'transubstantiation origin is from paganism, and was first practiced by pagan religions. The idea of transubstantiation was characteristic of the religion of Mithra whose sacraments of cakes and Haoma drink closely parallel the Catholic Eucharistic rite. The noted historian Durant said that belief in transubstantiation as practiced by the priests of the Roman Catholic system is "one of the oldest ceremonies of primitive religion." The Story Of Civilization, p. 741. In Egypt priests would consecrate mest cakes which were supposed to be come the flesh of Osiris.' Encyclopedia Of Religions, Vol. 2, p. 76.

It was never held in the early church and took many centuries before officially becoming an article of faith by the church of Rome, which means that it is essential to salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church. The idea of a corporal presence was not part of beliefs, but in 831 A.D. Paschasius Radbertus, a Benedictine monk, published a treatise openly advocating the doctrine of transubstantiation. Even then, for almost another four hundred years, theological debate waged over this teaching by bishops and people alike until at the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 A.D., it was officially defined and canonized as a dogma.
Yes, sadly it is only the tip of the iceberg. Solid post. Blind men cannot see a rainbow!
 
Jesus Christ instituted the sacraments for the salvation of all men!

Sacramental life of the Christian church: I come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10 Jn 1:16-17

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 8:36
1 Corinthians 12:13 2 pet 1:11
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!
 
Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!
 
Now your turn:

“Faith alone” scripture?

“Scripture alone” scripture?

“Grace alone” scripture?

“Christ alone”? Scripture?

“Glory to God alone” scripture?
 
Jesus Christ instituted the sacraments for the salvation of all men!

Sacramental life of the Christian church: I come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10 Jn 1:16-17

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 8:36
1 Corinthians 12:13 2 pet 1:11
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!
How does Luke 22:32 refer to confirmation?
 
"If any one shall deny that the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore entire Christ, are truly, really, and substantially contained in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist; and shall say that He is only in it as a sign, or in a figure, or virtually -- let him be accursed." (Canon 1).


Would you be upset if that were biblical?


How does Luke 22:32 refer to confirmation?

Perhaps meaning once confirmed you'll seek to strengthen others?


The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

I'd add


As when the priest or extraordinary minister offers the body of Christ and you say Amen then it is at that moment He is present, but only when an ordained priest has offered the gifts and petitioned as they are authorized to do, its all necessary.


The Council of Trent was held in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation; it approved many pagan and unbiblical beliefs and declared it was to be accepted under the threat of "anathema".

I'd like to suggest you consider the Church has the authority to do what it does, even when it seems wrong to us


a good example in my opinion of just such a biblical example would be when Jesus rebuked Simon



Surely none of us here would have thought Simon was wrong, now Simon becomes Peter, a surname, like Mr Smith its given per occupation, as the Church knows Peter as Pope, and Pope as Father, then Simon Peter is Simon Pope or Simon Father, now he bears the responsibility for all of us, surely we're not really wanting his job?


Yet when we protest, waive our right to the protection of the Church, that's what we do.

What do we get for our efforts?



Convert and come as a child, humble and submissive, eager to learn.

 
Would you be upset if that were biblical?




Perhaps meaning once confirmed you'll seek to strengthen others?


Good point.
Only problem is that those making Confirmation are about 12 years old...
They have enough to do trying to understand their faith/religion let alone witness to others.
I believe it's basically to strengthen themselves, to receive more grace and to, once again, ask for the Holy Spirit.
I just wish all of them really believed - many little atheists out there.

I'd add


As when the priest or extraordinary minister offers the body of Christ and you say Amen then it is at that moment He is present, but only when an ordained priest has offered the gifts and petitioned as they are authorized to do, its all necessary.




I'd like to suggest you consider the Church has the authority to do what it does, even when it seems wrong to us


a good example in my opinion of just such a biblical example would be when Jesus rebuked Simon



Surely none of us here would have thought Simon was wrong, now Simon becomes Peter, a surname, like Mr Smith its given per occupation, as the Church knows Peter as Pope, and Pope as Father, then Simon Peter is Simon Pope or Simon Father, now he bears the responsibility for all of us, surely we're not really wanting his job?


Yet when we protest, waive our right to the protection of the Church, that's what we do.

What do we get for our efforts?



Convert and come as a child, humble and submissive, eager to learn.

Nice post.
Welcome to the forum !
 
Nice post.
Welcome to the forum !

Thank you

I myself was confirmed through the RCIA so much older that 12, I can't say much about atheists but can say
how much I praise God for His Son and His Sons Church,

Being protestant is seeking to save your life from the perceived evil of the Pope etc,
losing that life was a true blessing for me,


And I was able to keep my 1611 :study

Before my conversion I had discovered I was robbed of part of it, that missing part was also a blessing


I hope I can help to strengthen others to not fear the apocrypha, RCC ,council or Trent/pagans or Satan for that matter





My favorite non scripture quote is likely this


Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: “They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!” But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.
— Saint Catherine of Siena in St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222.

as to me it portrays absolute faith.
 
Thank you

I myself was confirmed through the RCIA so much older that 12, I can't say much about atheists but can say
how much I praise God for His Son and His Sons Church,

Being protestant is seeking to save your life from the perceived evil of the Pope etc,
losing that life was a true blessing for me,


And I was able to keep my 1611 :study

Before my conversion I had discovered I was robbed of part of it, that missing part was also a blessing


I hope I can help to strengthen others to not fear the apocrypha, RCC ,council or Trent/pagans or Satan for that matter





My favorite non scripture quote is likely this




as to me it portrays absolute faith.
You're a new convert so I'm not going to get into deep discussions.
I'll say this:

Even though men may not be holy,,,
the church and the Church are always holy.
So we can agree on that.

I wouldn't die on the Pope hill.
He may be the tip of the hierarchy of the church,
but above him is God....
and I don't know how God feels about this one.

Keep close to Jesus and to the church....
and pray Catholics get another pope like Benedict.
 
You're a new convert
Convert yes,

I don't know how God feels about this one

Shall we presume the first Jesuit Pope is somehow erroneously ordained as he's not well liked?


This Pope, along with his Jesuit history, vows of poverty etc, seems to work hard to emulate Christ, embracing sinners of all sorts, the Eastern Orthodox, Muslims, Protestants, gays etc, that kind of thing made people upset 2k years ago also.


I'm not going to get into deep discussions.


Isn't that how we keep our lamps trimmed?


 
You're a new convert so I'm not going to get into deep discussions.
I'll say this:

Even though men may not be holy,,,
the church and the Church are always holy.
So we can agree on that.

I wouldn't die on the Pope hill.
He may be the tip of the hierarchy of the church,
but above him is God....
and I don't know how God feels about this one.

Keep close to Jesus and to the church....
and pray Catholics get another pope like Benedict.
Like pius 10 amen!
 
Like pius 10 amen!

Please explain, I'm not aware of how this view is maintained, only that I see it and hear it in my own church

I'm not into politics, those of the church included, what I'm aware of is how the current Pope is misquoted and
how people seem to fail to see the emulation of Christ, even simple things

What's more, Francis has embraced a much more low-brow view of the papacy, shunning Benedict's red slippers, ermine capes and papal apartments for a simpler lifestyle that finds him sleeping in a Vatican guesthouse and wearing simple black shoes beneath his white papal cassock.


And when I hear these things spoken against him I'm reminded of


so again please, explain?
 
Convert yes,



Shall we presume the first Jesuit Pope is somehow erroneously ordained as he's not well liked?


This Pope, along with his Jesuit history, vows of poverty etc, seems to work hard to emulate Christ, embracing sinners of all sorts, the Eastern Orthodox, Muslims, Protestants, gays etc, that kind of thing made people upset 2k years ago also.





Isn't that how we keep our lamps trimmed?


Some say the Pope was not dully elected.
I don't know enough about this.

What I do know is that the Pope takes an oath not to change any DOCTRINE of the church.
This Pope has changed at least 3 that come to mind immediately. Probably more but in smaller matters that the lay persons never hear about. I could actually find out about this....but don't care and don't want to spend my life worrying about this Pope. God will handle it.

He's humble you say. Why?
Because he didn't want to go live in the Vatican but stayed in St. Mary's residence?
Did you know that 5 million had to be spent in order to accomadate him?
Woulda been cheaper to just go in the Pope's quarters just like all the previous Popes have.

And the doctrine he has changed...
all for the worse.

Not to speak of the little chuchumama from South America that he held in the Garden of Vatican City.
A disgrace.

And now you know.
 
Some say the Pope was not dully elected.

In the US its seemingly obvious neither was Biden, but if God has a timeline and Trump was not going to meet that timeline then is Biden not dully elected?

That's a secular example, the Pope is in and of the church and so ordained fits perfect



yet you say

I don't know enough about this.

It right there in scripture, the powers that be, in this case a Jesuit Pope, are ordained by God, do you not believe scripture?


This Pope has changed at least 3 that come to mind immediately.

What are they?
Were they changed in the appropriate manner?


Woulda been cheaper

Says you, but you like to hypothesis, lets then hypothesis that his example becomes the new norm and future pontiffs also shun any form of luxurious living, would money then not be perhaps redeemed?


And the doctrine he has changed...
all for the worse.

All I hear is how the Jewish leaders must have discussed Christ, He was hated for His doctrine, has it been also for the worse?




Not to speak of the little chuchumama from South America that he held in the Garden of Vatican City.
A disgrace.


Shall we stone him?




or


"I ask forgiveness from those who have been offended by this gesture."



forgive him?






The Bible is not the church, it is in part witness of the church.

The church has a leader, the leader is appointed in and by succession.

The very history of the church is that its leader died for His church,

did He do that for your approval or for your sins?

Do you think the church then exists for your approval or your sins?

What is fulfillment of the law?




So you deem the Pope evil and his actions as strikes on your face?

Do you then protest?


I'm not saying the Pope is evil, and I do not protest the church any longer, after I read my 1611 I wondered why I ever did, I was indoctrinated to do so, but not that I understand when or how exactly,

Lets say the Pope is evil and you do not turn the other cheek and you instead protest,

What do you say of this woman's faith,
Is it more or less biblical than yours?

Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: “They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!” But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.
— Saint Catherine of Siena in St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222.
 
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