And what Tredeau recently said about attacking our fundamental rights is shocking to say the least
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The covid injections don't work
- Thread starter Christ the King
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I have asked you, and others, to actually put some thought into these things but it seems you are intent on not doing so. That truly is unfortunate. Christians are supposed to be and do much better than that. You are so convinced of your narrative that you can't even consider the possibility of other valid, and even more likely, explanations. An unwillingness or inability to think critically is absolutely dangerous regarding these matters. Since you don't want to think critically about these things and even consider that other, more plausible explanations, might even exist, I'll try and help you out.
In no way whatsoever does what is happening now mean that the vaccines "aren't effective at all". That is a false dichotomy (an all too common fallacy used by the anti-vax, anti-all-health-restriction crowd). A better answer considers the science behind what is going on.
For instance, in a given population where the majority are vaccinated, it stands to reason then that a majority of new cases are going to be vaccinated people. However, just because vaccinated people still get COVID and transmit the virus doesn’t mean that the vaccines don’t mitigate both to some degree, and there is some evidence that they do. The vaccines have always been known to be less than 100% effective. They have, however, mounds of data supporting their effectiveness in reducing severe illness, hospitalizations, and deaths. That is their purpose. This was especially seen early on with the initial variant of concern, the one for which the vaccines were designed to protect against.
Then came Delta and now Omicron, ones for which the vaccines are less effective against. This makes sense because those variants weren’t around when the vaccines were being developed and tested. My understanding is that an updated vaccine is in the making to deal with the latest variants, much like with the flu vaccines. Also, given that it is known that both natural and vaccine protection wane with time, of course people are starting to lose protection.
They certainly thought that herd immunity could be achieved through vaccination, and it might yet. However, both variants (at any given time there are hundreds, or thousands, of variants around) and anti-vax, anti-health-restriction behaviour has so far ensured that herd immunity is some way off yet. We certainly never will achieve it without vaccines, at least not without significantly more deaths than we've seen already.
So, no, the claim hasn't been refuted, it has been thwarted by anti-vaccine, anti-health-restriction people, and a virus that does what viruses do--mutates constantly. There is simply no reason whatsoever to believe that scientists haven't tried their best to get us through this as quickly and safely as possible, and that they will continue to do so.
Well, I agree people shouldn't be forced. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you about that. But there are consequences for those that don't get vaccinated; it simply cannot be otherwise. And, again, discrimination is a rare occurrence; you keep conflating necessary and unavoidable consequences with discrimination.
That is false and you know it.
I addressed it, if you care to respond.
Making the vaccine work groups are almost the same.
Group 1:
You need a true vaccine with added existing safe established drugs being used alongside vaccine.
This group is called radical because they do not listen to vaccine alone.
Group 2:
Vaccine alone group . Who now are coming out with an approved $500.00 solid pill bottle treatment to supplement the vacccine that needs help.
The difference in the two groups . $400.00 for the approved solid bottle of pills.
Now the non existence group ( group 3 ? ):
Just treat the whole issue with $100.00 of 3 bottles of existing drugs. (Even if you have to make human varieties of some drugs at a $25.00 added charge.
Of course rednecks are known for their ignorant faulty thinking process.
Mississippi ignorant redneck
eddif
Group 1:
You need a true vaccine with added existing safe established drugs being used alongside vaccine.
This group is called radical because they do not listen to vaccine alone.
Group 2:
Vaccine alone group . Who now are coming out with an approved $500.00 solid pill bottle treatment to supplement the vacccine that needs help.
The difference in the two groups . $400.00 for the approved solid bottle of pills.
Now the non existence group ( group 3 ? ):
Just treat the whole issue with $100.00 of 3 bottles of existing drugs. (Even if you have to make human varieties of some drugs at a $25.00 added charge.
Of course rednecks are known for their ignorant faulty thinking process.
Mississippi ignorant redneck
eddif
Back to the main facts and refuted claims
They said these needles would provide herd immunity... Refuted.
They said these needles would end the pandemic... Refuted.
They said these needles would bring us back to normal... Refuted.
So I ask once again... Take your needle and stop discriminating against us.
Im sick and tired of living in this fascist apartheid...
They said these needles would provide herd immunity... Refuted.
They said these needles would end the pandemic... Refuted.
They said these needles would bring us back to normal... Refuted.
So I ask once again... Take your needle and stop discriminating against us.
Im sick and tired of living in this fascist apartheid...
Last edited by a moderator:
stovebolts
Member
I understand.
When Covid first hit Michigan, our governor went crazy. Seriously! You couldn’t buy flooring, paint or any gardening supplies. She deemed them non essential and forbid the retail stores from selling them. All the clothing at Walmart was taped off and you couldn’t buy a car seat for a baby. If that wasn’t enough, you have to understand that Michigan is surrounded by the largest fresh water bodies in the world (the Great Lakes) and we love the water, including our interior lakes and rivers. Well, you couldn’t go on them with an engine! No engines allowed!
If all that weren’t enough, she shut down small business and sent construction workers home, except road crews because she campaigned on fixing our roads which are horrible. She also shut all the hospitals down except to treat Covid and to perform abortions.
The militia had enough and tried to kidnap her and put her on trial…. That was her wake up call, and that’s one reason she won’t lock our state down again.
Twice we have had the highest infection rate in the USA. The first time was when we were liberated and no longer protected by her lockdown. That’s the first time Covid went rabid in Michigan and I thought I was going to loose my unvaccinated wife when she got Covid and was put in ICU.
We are currently leading the nation again because we are not locked down and Covid is making its second pass through our state. The next 4-6 weeks is predicted to get worse. In that time, we will loose many people to Covid. But for the most part, it will be those that refused the vaccination. And we have to accept that.
stovebolts
Member
You must be talking about Australia, because those claims have never been asserted in the USA.
Do me a huge favor, would you? We are a global site and each county is handling the pandemic differently. Instead of making these sweeping claims, how about being a bit more specific and qualifying it with your country, and better yet, provide the source for those making the claims.
In America, herd immunity will be realized by those who receive the vaccination and those who build natural immunity.
All past pandemics last 3-5 years and with the downgrade we are seeing in Omicron I suspect next winter will be more “normal” as herd immunity is reached and the Covid mutations become weaker. After all, a virus is not very effective at surviving when it hills it’s hosts. It’s survival depends on keeping its hosts alive so it must weaken its attack, just like the flu did and every other pandemic before it.
stovebolts
Member
Ha! Your kidding, right?
The USA has a 61% vaccination rate with a 19% booster rate. I would not call that a high vaccination rate by any means.
I’ve already showed you that Michigan has just half the population the your entire country does and your infection rate is next to nothing compared to our state.
Let me ask you this. Why does Australia have such a low Covid rate compared to Michigan?
The COVID-19 vaccine shots won’t be enough to combat the omicron variant, according to Ugur Sahin, the CEO of vaccine developer BioNTech.
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/12/26/22848390/covid-vaccine-booster-shots-omicron-variant
Now the FDA has approved a pill to fight Covid.
FDA NEWS RELEASE
Possible side effects of Paxlovid include impaired sense of taste, diarrhea, high blood pressure and muscle aches. Using Paxlovid at the same time as certain other drugs may result in potentially significant drug interactions. Using Paxlovid in people with uncontrolled or undiagnosed HIV-1 infection may lead to HIV-1 drug resistance. Ritonavir may cause liver damage, so caution should be exercised when giving Paxlovid to patients with preexisting liver diseases, liver enzyme abnormalities or liver inflammation.
Because Paxlovid works, in part, by inhibiting a group of enzymes that break down certain drugs, Paxlovid is contraindicated with certain drugs that are highly dependent on those enzymes for metabolism and for which elevated concentrations of certain drugs are associated with serious and/or life-threatening reactions. Paxlovid is also contraindicated with drugs that, conversely, strongly induce those same enzymes, leading to the faster breakdown of nirmatrelvir or ritonavir, as reduced concentrations of nirmatrelvir or ritonavir may be associated with potentially losing virologic response and developing viral resistance. Paxlovid cannot be started immediately after discontinuing such medications because the effects of those medications remain after discontinuation. For a complete list of drugs that should not be taken in combination with Paxlovid, see the fact sheet for healthcare providers.
Paxlovid is not recommended in patients with severe kidney or severe liver impairment. In patients with moderate renal impairment, a reduced Paxlovid dose is needed. Patients with kidney or liver problems should discuss with their healthcare provider whether Paxlovid is right for them.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...rizes-first-oral-antiviral-treatment-covid-19
Its interesting to note that these pills should be used in conjunction with the vaccine.
JLB
- “We must be aware that even triple-vaccinated are likely to transmit the disease,” he told French daily Le Monde.
- “It is obvious we are far from 95 percent effectiveness that we obtained against the initial virus,” he added.
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/12/26/22848390/covid-vaccine-booster-shots-omicron-variant
Now the FDA has approved a pill to fight Covid.
FDA NEWS RELEASE
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Authorizes First Oral Antiviral for Treatment of COVID-19
Possible side effects of Paxlovid include impaired sense of taste, diarrhea, high blood pressure and muscle aches. Using Paxlovid at the same time as certain other drugs may result in potentially significant drug interactions. Using Paxlovid in people with uncontrolled or undiagnosed HIV-1 infection may lead to HIV-1 drug resistance. Ritonavir may cause liver damage, so caution should be exercised when giving Paxlovid to patients with preexisting liver diseases, liver enzyme abnormalities or liver inflammation.
Because Paxlovid works, in part, by inhibiting a group of enzymes that break down certain drugs, Paxlovid is contraindicated with certain drugs that are highly dependent on those enzymes for metabolism and for which elevated concentrations of certain drugs are associated with serious and/or life-threatening reactions. Paxlovid is also contraindicated with drugs that, conversely, strongly induce those same enzymes, leading to the faster breakdown of nirmatrelvir or ritonavir, as reduced concentrations of nirmatrelvir or ritonavir may be associated with potentially losing virologic response and developing viral resistance. Paxlovid cannot be started immediately after discontinuing such medications because the effects of those medications remain after discontinuation. For a complete list of drugs that should not be taken in combination with Paxlovid, see the fact sheet for healthcare providers.
Paxlovid is not recommended in patients with severe kidney or severe liver impairment. In patients with moderate renal impairment, a reduced Paxlovid dose is needed. Patients with kidney or liver problems should discuss with their healthcare provider whether Paxlovid is right for them.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...rizes-first-oral-antiviral-treatment-covid-19
Its interesting to note that these pills should be used in conjunction with the vaccine.
JLB
If you guys want to keep this thread open then follow stovebolts example of dialog.
Please address the topic and not the person.
Please don’t insinuate the other point of view is of the devil.
Please don’t claim the other person‘s perspective is false because you don’t agree with it.
Please just state facts about the point you want to make and keep it in harmony with the OP.
JLB
Please address the topic and not the person.
Please don’t insinuate the other point of view is of the devil.
Please don’t claim the other person‘s perspective is false because you don’t agree with it.
Please just state facts about the point you want to make and keep it in harmony with the OP.
JLB
stovebolts
Member
That’s what I was thinking, but will leave that to others to decide.
Im actually going through this thread to remove some unnecessary posts.
I have removed several of his posts.
Im not anti-vax
The best thing you can do is make your point and leave off the divisive rhetoric.
Your post #662 was a good post.
JLB
There was no divisive rhetoric intended. My point was to caution against being unwilling to think critically and consider other, more plausible viewpoints. To not even be willing to address any points that give other plausible explanations is simply not biblical.
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice. (Prov 12:15)
That some positions here are essentially anti-science is seen in continued ignoring of how viruses work, how vaccines work, and how human behaviour has been, and continues to be, one of the biggest factors in the spread of the virus and the continuation of the pandemic and all that goes with it. Pointing that out is not divisive; it gets to the heart of the errors in some positions.
christian1724
2024 Supporter
Have you considered that the problem is as much yours as it is anyone else's. I don't perceive you as being 'thought provoking' (as you fancy yourself to be). I wish you were, really, I wish you were because that is what one of the primary reasons for my attendance on this site.
That isn't much different than most any other drug/vaccine and this is why I believe each person needs to be allowed to discuss their use with their doctor and make the choice for themselves.
For me, the only vaccine that I would consider taking is the Pfizer Comirnaty vaccine which is the only one approved by the FDA.
JLB
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I edited my post for you.
Im sure the others feel the same way.
Personally, I see this thread has exhausted itself and provides no further viable information.
I will most likely close it soon.
JLB
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